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Default Enterprise Windows 10 going to monthly pay scam.

July 14th, 2016, 22:06
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke…o#3e9ec70edfab

Well this should end MS dominance in the enterprise business. Either businesses will refuse to downgrade to Win10 entirely, eventually shifting to OSX (most likely) or Linux for the competently run companies. Going to be a hard sell to convince anyone that an OS that previously cost only the initial license fee should also cost monthly, which in large corporations is going to get rather expensive. Especially since that's added on top of a monthly fee for Office and any other programs, when before again, they didn't have that expense.
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July 14th, 2016, 22:22
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke…o#3e9ec70edfab

Well this should end MS dominance in the enterprise business. Either businesses will refuse to downgrade to Win10 entirely, eventually shifting to OSX (most likely) or Linux for the competently run companies. Going to be a hard sell to convince anyone that an OS that previously cost only the initial license fee should also cost monthly, which in large corporations is going to get rather expensive. Especially since that's added on top of a monthly fee for Office and any other programs, when before again, they didn't have that expense.
I'm not so sure. It depends on the enterprise.

I work at the It department of a group of 10 hospitals in western part of Norway. 15000 or more PC's 25000 users. And we have a lot of special software which only run on windows. Apart from the EPR we have PACS (radiology), several laboratory systems and so on. With 25000 users, we can only have one desktop system, so even if some of the software solutions ran on other OS'es, others don't, and we can't maintain a range of different desktops.


We do have a lot of Linux servers.

Regarding the cost, I suppose big enterprises will pay a lower price per month.

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July 14th, 2016, 22:34
That Window 10 subscription cost is through the CSP (Cloud Solution Provider) project/channel of Microsoft. CSP is basically a 3rd party managing your company's IT and licensing Microsoft product for you.

Window 10 is still available in the old licensing format for people not using CSP or via Microsoft Secure Productive Enterprise.

edit: Enterprise never bought Microsoft the way individual did might I add. They always had to pay for support in a way.
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July 14th, 2016, 22:37
I think most enterprises would be on a subscription-based scheme anyway. I forget what they call it, but all the big corporates I used to deal with were on that program.

It'll be more interesting when they try to foist it onto consumers, after their marvellous "free" upgrade.

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July 14th, 2016, 22:41
Yeah, maybe. But I'm willing to bet that a good many businesses are going to balk at paying out thousands more per month. And while your specialized systems don't work on other OSes now, that doesn't mean they can't be or won't be ported. If MS drives away the business, speciality equipment manufacturers will have to follow and support the OS those businesses migrate to.

At 15,000 * $7 (assuming they're going a straight conversion to 7 euros, or that Norweigian/EU laws even allow them to run this scam) that amounts to 105,000/month. 1,260,000 a year. More than enough to make even a moderately competent management consider calling up the equipment manufacturer and asking them about porting the control software and drivers over to OSX or Linux. What costs more, a couple million now switching, with only normal IT costs after, or a million and a quarter a year for until you go bankrupt?

And that's right now. There's nothing preventing MS from raising that to $10 or $15 or whatever. It's $7 now because the lowish price might make unintelligent weak willed spineless managers hunker down and pay up. Afterwards, keep raising the rates. As long as people are stupid enough to think they can never escape the Windows ecosystem, they'll keep racking up the money.
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July 14th, 2016, 22:51
That's nothing new. It was already known that Microsoft is trying to turn EVERYTHING into a SERVICE -
- ESPECIALLY the OS !

Make people dependent from an OS - and them let them pay for it. This is how drug dealers work.
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July 14th, 2016, 23:00
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I think most enterprises would be on a subscription-based scheme anyway. I forget what they call it, but all the big corporates I used to deal with were on that program.
Volume licensing aka MPSA.
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July 14th, 2016, 23:14
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
That Window 10 subscription cost is through the CSP (Cloud Solution Provider) project/channel of Microsoft. CSP is basically a 3rd party managing your company's IT and licensing Microsoft product for you.

Window 10 is still available in the old licensing format for people not using CSP or via Microsoft Secure Productive Enterprise.

edit: Enterprise never bought Microsoft the way individual did might I add. They always had to pay for support in a way.
Reread the article. It does not state that you can buy old license-style copies of Win10 anywhere, only that all Enterprise versions of Win10 will now be subscription based. Companies before only paid an upfront license (in bulk of course) and then paid monthly for support. Now they will pay for the OS or be locked out of their own systems; and pay for support on top of that. And pay for Office, and pay for other specialized software (I know Adobe has moved to a subscription-based scam as well). They also have to pay for support on any hardware they use (like my CNC machine, they pay every time they call for that thing). Adds up quite a bit really quickly.

Again, at 15,000 computers, you are paying $1,260,000 annually. Then you have to pay monthly for support for those computers. Then you have to pay for Office for those computers. Then you have to pay for Outlook for those computers…

Quite honestly, I would be surprised if MS doesn't get sued over it. People are already suing (and winning) over the forced upgrades. Forced changes to a subscription service no one asked for, and which will shut down their business if they don't comply? I'd consider that extortion.
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July 15th, 2016, 00:10
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
Reread the article. It does not state that you can buy old license-style copies of Win10 anywhere, only that all Enterprise versions of Win10 will now be subscription based.
The article you posted is sensationalizing Microsoft blog article which clearly mentioned that the subscription model is for their CSP program and their regular licensing program is still present.
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July 15th, 2016, 00:32
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
Yeah, maybe. But I'm willing to bet that a good many businesses are going to balk at paying out thousands more per month. And while your specialized systems don't work on other OSes now, that doesn't mean they can't be or won't be ported. If MS drives away the business, speciality equipment manufacturers will have to follow and support the OS those businesses migrate to.

At 15,000 * $7 (assuming they're going a straight conversion to 7 euros, or that Norweigian/EU laws even allow them to run this scam) that amounts to 105,000/month. 1,260,000 a year. More than enough to make even a moderately competent management consider calling up the equipment manufacturer and asking them about porting the control software and drivers over to OSX or Linux. What costs more, a couple million now switching, with only normal IT costs after, or a million and a quarter a year for until you go bankrupt?

And that's right now. There's nothing preventing MS from raising that to $10 or $15 or whatever. It's $7 now because the lowish price might make unintelligent weak willed spineless managers hunker down and pay up. Afterwards, keep raising the rates. As long as people are stupid enough to think they can never escape the Windows ecosystem, they'll keep racking up the money.
When I mentioned specialized software, I didn't mean control software for technical equipment - these come usually with their own hardware/software solutions. More important are systems like a PACS system, which include client software for radiologists, technicians, clinicians. Some of our hospitals use Agfa PACS. Could we get Agfa to develop software for OSX? Not a chance. Maybe in the future, but that would take years and years, and in the meantime it's windows, for us and for every other Agfa customer.

There are PACS systems for OSX. So, maybe we could switch? Well, first of all, none of them have made any offers to hospitals in Norway, AFAIK. Second: A Pacs system serving all our hospitals would cost around 20,000,000 USD. Probably more if you take into account the workload of specifying requirements, evaluating offers, negotiations, planning and implementing the solution, testing - it typically takes up to 3 years. - I've been involved in several such projects.

And that's just one example. We have many software solutions like that.

In addition comes the cost of switching from a windows platform to OSX in itself. I suppose we would have to replace most of our PC's? Then there is all the other software we would need, such as

1. Software for administering users, what systems they're entitled to use, single sign on etc.
2. Software for central distribution of software packages the users are entitled to use, no matter what PC they log on to.
3. Software for centrally setup and control of the desktop - we don't allow personal variations, and we don't allow users to install additional software.
4. New software solutions for development, not that costly, but we would have to install new supporting software and redesign how we work and maintain internally developed software. Currently we use Visual Studio which has a lot of components for enterprise evironments, and we know how to use them.
5. Testing, testing and testing
6. Lots of things I can't think of now. Did I mention testing?

In addition comes training of users, training of support personnel. We would have to increase our support staff for a long time, because we would have to switch from Windows to OSX gradually, department by department. So we would have to support both desktop environments. It also would take a significant amount of time to get the clinicians used to the new environments.

In other words: A huge amount of work, and lots of money. So, windows it is, and windows it will be in the foreseeable future.

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Last edited by pibbur who; July 15th, 2016 at 10:49.
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July 15th, 2016, 00:40
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonke…o#3e9ec70edfab

Well this should end MS dominance in the enterprise business. Either businesses will refuse to downgrade to Win10 entirely, eventually shifting to OSX (most likely) or Linux for the competently run companies. Going to be a hard sell to convince anyone that an OS that previously cost only the initial license fee should also cost monthly, which in large corporations is going to get rather expensive. Especially since that's added on top of a monthly fee for Office and any other programs, when before again, they didn't have that expense.
What? This is an awesome move. Office 365 subscriptions for our company was one of the best things that happened to our enterprise environment. The extra dollars spent on monthly subscriptions are less than our monthly IT management costs for Office alone. With the amount of machines we transfer and image on a monthly basis, having a subscription service for Windows 10 would be golden.
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July 15th, 2016, 11:36
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
The article you posted is sensationalizing Microsoft blog article which clearly mentioned that the subscription model is for their CSP program and their regular licensing program is still present.
Well, it is quite clear that scam should be removed from the thread title I guess.

They are offering a new service, which as can be seen above many companies are attracted to, and they are keeping the old subscription model too, so this is a positive move not a scam.

If we are to talk about the windows 10 forced auto-update though, well that was a scam for sure, I think it ruined MS image quite a lot, so now even positive news is getting a negative reaction.
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July 15th, 2016, 16:09
I don't know if OS will actually go this route, but all other programs certainly are.

Soon, for example, you will have no choice but to use Office 365. Standard install-forever installations will be a thing of the past. I like how they are doing it under the guise of concern for the customer, a la "but you will always have the latest version "

Very few people in business are excited about the "latest version". People want to get used to a certain version, and perform their tasks quickly and effectively with familiar software. They couldnt care less about an update. Often, the update is slower, or cumbersome, or features are removed. Who hasn't updated a program, just to have it be a complete piece of crap, and instantly regret it?

no, Microsoft wasn't making any money off a single install until the computer goes boom.

The positive news, for me as a IT administrator, is that "software as a service" generally makes licensing a whole lot easier. Log in, allocate licenses, no more spreadsheets or stacks of disks. Just costs money, but hey gotta spend money to make money
Last edited by xSamhainx; July 15th, 2016 at 17:55.
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July 15th, 2016, 17:47
For home users office 365 is worth the money, methinks. If there is more than one user. The family pack comes with 5 licenses, and in addition it can be in installed on 5 (joxer, look away) mobile devices. We currently use 4 licenses and 2 mobile installations.

For singles it's not that good.

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