Dragon Age - Best RPG Ever? @ GamerZines

I am mostly a sandbox CRPG gamer so i 'd prefer Morrowind over DAO any day.
From the "restricted" or story driven RPGs i still like the Witcher more , it looked more adult and long term consequences were unpredictable.

Originally Posted by Dyspaire
Bioware are moving closer to movie-making with every game. I'm just asking for slightly more game and slightly less movie.

How about less movie and more book then If the game was more like Betrayal at Krondor then that would be the absolute bestest game EVAR!!11.

Sillyness aside, Chapter one from Betrayal at Krondor was perfectly done, imo. It gave you an interesting story right off the bat, some good dialogue and a whole country/culture to explore.

I understand your point about not being able to explore the world more fully because you have this huge country with all of its rich culture, but only a few hotspots that you actually get to look around in.

If you could get Beth. to build the world, and get Bio. to flesh it out; now that would be a game to play.

I kinda agree. I think a better marriage has already been done. Dynamix and Raymond E. Fiest. Devs first need a good author and then build a world around his vision. Sorta like what they did with DA, but like you said they didn't let you explore this setting. People can say what they want about Gaidar, but I love his work and if Bioware would make the game more explorable to actually get to see some of what was written about it then this would be one of the best games since Betrayal at Krondor or even Torment.

Originally Posted by SveNitoR
1. The standard save-the-world-from-evil story and become-the-greatest-hero-ever. It has been beaten to death since before humans could write.

I agree. But this seems to be - as sad as it might be - a kind of formular *everyone* uses - like a law. I don't know how to express what I mean, but it is like a proper horror movie should have certain story elements and ways of presenting them … Read "Carpe Jugulum" to get a different view on that …
It is like a consolidated formula. It is like … certain kinds of people have to wear certain kinds of clothes to be *proper* members of that group … Sometzhing like that, only with stories … like pulp fiction …

3. They created a brand new world from scratch. Which races did they use? City-living, versatile humans. Forest-dwelling, bow-wielding elves. Underground-living, smithing-and-gem loving dwarves. I mean come on… where's the imagination and creativity?

"Unoriginality" is the far most liked ind of criticism critiques like to adress. There is nothing as satisfying as saying : "this is not original !"

Hence my try to write a story (long-term project) which DOES try everything to explicitely BE unoriginal !

Well, at least for me, while not able to crack my top 3 (final fantasy 7, Planescape, Ultima 7) it certainly right there after them, alongside kotor 1.

I heartily agree with the idea of let Bethesda create a living breathing world and then let Bioware fill it up with interesting things to do and people to meet. Bethesda is the king of making worlds and background lore, but they suck at filling it up with believable people. My favorite game in the last 10 years is probably Oblivion but I recognize that the dialogues are generally lousy. I love the exploration and game systems of Oblivion but if Bioware would have written the stories and quests; that would be a perfect marriage. Origin stories written with the races and classes of Bethesda would take a LONG, LONG, time though

Originally Posted by crpgnut
I heartily agree with the idea of let Bethesda create a living breathing world and then let Bioware fill it up with interesting things to do and people to meet. Bethesda is the king of making worlds and background lore, but they suck at filling it up with believable people. My favorite game in the last 10 years is probably Oblivion but I recognize that the dialogues are generally lousy. I love the exploration and game systems of Oblivion but if Bioware would have written the stories and quests; that would be a perfect marriage. Origin stories written with the races and classes of Bethesda would take a LONG, LONG, time though

One of the worst ideas ever. Bethesda's world just plainly sucks (actually they made a great lore just to rape it in the games, especially Oblivion which is a parody of TES and cRPGs in general), Bioware's writing is bad (always save the world and destroy evil, dialogues aren't very bright/intelligent or realistic).

Damn.

Troika, where are you? :\

At least CD-Projekt Red is a developer I still have hope in.

What about the Obsidian and Fallout 3 mix? That doesn't sound too bad.

The worse thing about Fallout 3 was the plot and dialogue. If they can juice that up a bit it could be one great game.

I'm enjoying it hugely - *but* I do feel that for a mage playing with friendly fire enabled (normal/hard), your options are somewhat limited for actually dealing damage which avoids your party (esp if you use 'tactics'). For me BG2 with 101 interesting DnD spells was just a vastly more satisfying experience. I think the alternative spell system they created is poor (timers smack of Dungeons Siege 2), somewhat boring (too few interesting skills or talents) and has *way* too many friendly fire spells - how I miss my 'maximized chain lightning'! I also think that 1 talent per level (or near to that) means you don't get to explore spell (or any other) skill trees adequately - in DnD if you had loot, you could buy a scroll and learn a spell. Clerics had access to ALL the spells on their class list. Here, you're screwed until you gain a level…and then you get *ONE*. So, I think their new game rule system sucks (compared to the richness of D&D), but the game itself is enjoyable nonethless - for other reasons.

I think the most impressive thing for me are the dialogues - all voiced, and competently! I've probably spent several hours yakkingto players and people.

The tactics system is still kind of crappy - and having to spend a precious skill point to buy more slots is a crime. Basically, Bio have always had shite AI - so let the players fix it by scripting their own interactions. Quite clever really. But then they piss you off by making the scripting options limited by class/skill points. Not nice.

The origins are really great: still busy with mage, but I really enjoyed that, and if the others are of similar intrerest (although having been many places in the world don't see how they can match the Fade ;-) this game has real replayability - well, at least until the origin part is done.

So, verdict so far: great game - but not the best RPG I've ever played. I'd give my eyeteeth to have a properly designed BG3 - but that's just an idle dream.

It is interesting that so many people say it's not that great for diametrically opposing reasons. I also find it fascinating that some of you dis later games for the same flaws that are rampant in earlier games that you hold up as examples of greatness.

I believe everyone here has said it's great, just not the greatest ever.

It´s surely up there with the best.
The most complete RPG to date imo.

As someone who's generally been only lukewarm on Bioware's ouvre I'm surprised to say that I think for me at the moment (and still only part way through first playthrough) it actually is my favourite game so far.

I'll always have special affection for Planescape & Bloodlines which had some fantastic aspects which exceeded DA, but both also had flaws that left the overall experience less enjoyable. Perhaps more memorable, with real moments of gaming wonder that'll stick in my mind forever, but as a complete experience I can't fault DA so far.

Admittedly it's got a massive budget & development timescale and the latest in modern technology so a lot of its advantages are unfair, and either planescape or bloodlines made under similar conditions would be even more astounding. But realistically that kind of resource just wouldn't be available for anything more edgy than DA (and I'm amazed that such a mainstream release is even as hardcore as DA), and as a trade off I'm happy with it.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
I also find it fascinating that some of you dis later games for the same flaws that are rampant in earlier games that you hold up as examples of greatness.

It shouldn't be that fascinating, as time goes by and there is more and more examples and experimentation, we as gamers pick what we like and hope/expect to see it in any future game. We're holding new games up to standards set by previous games. It's no different than cars, someone tried power windows, people liked them, their standard now. Some cars tried automatic seat belts, people hated them and I haven't seen one in a decade.

Diablo I had simple sprite graphics that were considered good looking when it was released but by the time Diablo II was released we already had a good taste of 3D engines by then and gamers were very disappointed by it's 2D graphics.

By the same token, I doubt many people would be interested in a D&D game released today with the 1.0 or 2.0 rulesets.

I consider Betrayal at Krondor the best RPG ever but if a faithful sequel was released today I would expect it to have skill trees or talents or perks or some way to further customize my character. However I'm not mad that BaK didn't have those things, back in 1993 skill trees were very rare and quite simple compared to the standards set by modern games.

Originally Posted by BillSeurer
It is interesting that so many people say it's not that great for diametrically opposing reasons. I also find it fascinating that some of you dis later games for the same flaws that are rampant in earlier games that you hold up as examples of greatness.

Why is that so interesting? The game has many flaws that are viewed differently by different people.

Originally Posted by Dyspaire
Let us make our own stories.

I agree 99% with what you said in that whole post, Dyspaire. I'm not the only one seeing this about DA:O, whew.

Originally Posted by crpgnut
I heartily agree with the idea of let Piranha Bytes create a living breathing world and then let Bioware fill it up with interesting things to do and people to meet.Piranha Bytes is the king of making worlds and background lore. My favorite game in the last 10 years is probably Gothic but I recognize that the dialogues are generally lousy. I love the exploration and game systems of Gothic but if Bioware would have written the stories and quests; that would be a perfect marriage. Origin stories written with the races and classes of Piranha Bytes would take a LONG, LONG, time though

Fixed,this post is.

Ontopic:
Best RPG Ever?
I'm not willing to give that title to any game,and even if I did I can think of a couple of games better than DA.

Originally Posted by JDR13
Why is that so interesting? The game has many flaws that are viewed differently by different people.

Just like all the games you can list as great that you somehow give a pass too. I do not think this game has many flaws…unless you are a person looking for something to call a flaw and ignore it elsewhere.

Originally Posted by booboo
I think the most impressive thing for me are the dialogues - all voiced, and competently! I've probably spent several hours yakking to players and people.

Second that. I think they did an excellent job with the voice acting, especially with a game this large.

Originally Posted by rune_74
Just like all the games you can list as great that you somehow give a pass too. I do not think this game has many flaws…unless you are a person looking for something to call a flaw and ignore it elsewhere.

What other games are you referring to? Are they being mentioned as "greatest of all time"?

I don't think people are pointing out flaws just for the sake of doing it. Maybe in the eyes of the fanboys…

Originally Posted by JDR13
What other games are you referring to? Are they being mentioned as "greatest of all time"?

I don't think people are pointing out flaws just for the sake of doing it. Maybe in the eyes of the fanboys…

You said the witcher was pretty much better didn't you? (mature by the way calling me a fanboy.) The witcher was full of problems, good game but not nearly as polished or well done as dragon age. The voice acting was terrible…and the infantile sex cards…yeah that tops dragon age. You mention numerous problems…what problems are those? And by adding those add games that don't have similar problems. I stand by my feeling that if this game had been released by cd project or some other european developer these fualts would somehow not be so front and center like you seem to think.

To bad it had bioware on the cover(EA too the shame) or else you might see something great.