Warning re Div 2

But Divinity 2 is an RPG with the PC as lead platform. The missing save function will cost them many sales. They are pissing people off for no reason.

I wonder who made this decision. dtp released a demo for Venetica which was even save game compatible with the full version.

Originally Posted by txa1265
Don't forget he is coming from a console perspective …

Ahh…. poor soul.

Originally Posted by Gorath
But Divinity 2 is an RPG with the PC as lead platform. The missing save function will cost them many sales. They are pissing people off for no reason.

I wonder who made this decision. dtp released a demo for Venetica which was even save game compatible with the full version.

I understood that - I was just providing context for the 'no saves is normal' perspective … personally that would annoy the CRAP out of me …

Originally Posted by skavenhorde
Sorry about getting really technical and nerdy for a second, but I know that Bioshock's savegame data is in C:\Documents and Settings\ %username% \Application Data\ not C:\Documents and Settings\ %username% \Local Settings\Application Data\

It's pretty much the same thing, but still not exactly in the same place Also Torchlight was in that folder you mentioned. I don't like this 'hiding the savegames' trend that is going on. If they're going to put them on the C drive then put them in My Documents. Makes it easier to find when backing them up.

Wow! You have a good memory. Well, I guess I looked in a slightly different directory then…
..but anyway, -that just highlights the point that gamesaves are being deposited willy nilly all over the place. ..and now that Rithrandil mentioned it, there is on my PC a …/…Docs/Games/ *gamesave* directory where they also pop it into, as well as a C/Games, as well as a C/"username's" games….

An industry standard sounds like an excellent idea…

EDIT: Now that I looked at the correct directory - AKA the directory with the Div 2 gamesaves in it - I must agree that it's a pretty strange place to put gamesaves. There are other odds and ends pertaining to games in that directory, such as Risens' screenshots - of all things, but I actually don't really spot other gamesave files in that particular directory.

How strange…

Originally Posted by txa1265
Don't forget he is coming from a console perspective … and as I have just played the Army of Two PSP demo I was reminded of the typical no-save demos …

Right, I don't play on PC, so I'm used to no-save demos on the console, which is pretty much the standard. I have never minded before, because demos are typically brief, and I'm just using them to get a taste of the game. But with one this long, a Save function would've been nice.

I've heard there is a Save-anywhere option in the full game. Can anyone confirm?

Originally Posted by Gorath
But Divinity 2 is an RPG with the PC as lead platform. The missing save function will cost them many sales. They are pissing people off for no reason.

I wonder who made this decision. dtp released a demo for Venetica which was even save game compatible with the full version.

Yep, crazy.

Have a look at the knee-jerk reactions at the official boards when someone asks about it.

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthre…631#Post396631

I can't believe how bent out of shape some people on that thread are getting about lack of a save in a demo. One guy calls it "abusive." Being given something for free that doesn't include a feature which makes it more convenient for him, that is now "abusive." What an entitled whiner. Fortunately, most people in the thread seem level-headed.

And never mind my question above, I see the answer in the thread:

you can save whenever you like in the full game

That's all that matters to me.

Actually, I think I'm coming from the opposite direction. It's not "something for free" - it's marketing material and not including a save feature is crazy. The first guy might be a bit strident but the fanboy "don't complain about something free" responses are foolishly short-sighted.

Please don't call me a fanboy, that's not respectful and it's unwarranted. Furthermore, you're mischaracterizing what I said. I didn't say "don't complain about something free." I said calling something free which lacks a feature you would prefer "abusive" is entitled whining.

He wasn't talking about you.

Originally Posted by Anderson
Please don't call me a fanboy, that's not respectful and it's unwarranted.

Well, an hour ago you called txa an entitled whinner.
Frankly, this thread kinda delivers .

Personally, I wouldn´t call the absence of proper save/load abusive, merely unnecessarily stupid, but it´s clear as a day that to some degree it will hurt the sales.
Judging by some other issues, the game will probably tank anyway.

Originally Posted by Dhruin
Yep, crazy.

Have a look at the knee-jerk reactions at the official boards when someone asks about it.

http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthre…631#Post396631

As expected.

I'm not sure a missing save feature in a demo will cost many sales. Pretty much it did nothing either way for me; my laptop can't run it.

Now hiding a save game is insane. I can't see any legitimate reason to hide a save. Piracy won't be affected, at all. Cheaters will find it, and hack the file, or just use trainers which change things while in-game. And at any rate, cheaters only harm themselves by denying themselves a superior gameplay experience first time through (cheating later, just to see if you can break something, can be fun though.)

Not sure even that would affect whether I purchased it or not, but it does add a consideration (in addition to dangerous DRM viruses that all too often infect new games).

Originally Posted by Anderson
I can't believe how bent out of shape some people on that thread are getting about lack of a save in a demo. One guy calls it "abusive." Being given something for free that doesn't include a feature which makes it more convenient for him, that is now "abusive." What an entitled whiner. Fortunately, most people in the thread seem level-headed. .

Most people in the thread say that we should be thankful to get a demo, and that the game isn't designed for those who can only play in sessions of less than ~2 hours. That is silly - Divine Divinity was an obscure title known only to hardcore PC RPG fans, and Diviity 2 is not a AAA release by any stretch in English speaking areas. Releasing a demo is a marketing tool, and it appears that they are making poor use of it, and that is unfortunate.

Yes - it was me that called it abusive. My main point was that appearing to save but not represents 'user hostile design'.

I am not sure how long the demo is, but assuming 2 hours - that is 50% as long as the single player of Modern Warfare 2. Imagine that game with one save point! Personally, when I play a demo I want to get a save or two in there to check stuff out - and I don't want to have a multi-hour demo that tells me that if I'm not willing to sit in a single 2+ hour session I must not be ready for the game, or whatever it is that many of the Larian site folks seem to be saying.

Originally Posted by DeepO
Well, an hour ago you called txa an entitled whiner.

I did?

(checks thread)

Oh. Woops.

I'm sorry, txa, I didn't realize that was you. I wouldn't've used the phrase "entitled whiner," had I known. I didn't bother to check the author. I thought it was just some random forum nutjob, not some guy with my brother's name who's been pretty decent to me on these forums. Please accept my apology.

Originally Posted by Anderson
Oh, I'm sorry, txa, I didn't realize that was you. I wouldn't've used the phrase "entitled whiner," had I known. I didn't bother to check the author. I thought it was just some random forum nutjob, not some guy with my brother's name who's been pretty decent to me on these forums. Please accept my apology.

No worries! You called it as you saw it, and I made a couple of word choices that made it easy. Did I seem to take offense? My frustration comes from what I'm hearing from other console gamer friends that the X360 demo is awful, and from PC gamers get a buggy demo & release with game-killers and no save in the demo. I am hoping for some success here for Larian … but seriously, they need to meet gamers more than halfway.

No, you didn't seem to take offense. I just figured I owed you an apology. You seem like a good guy, and I shouldn't be calling you an entitled whiner, even accidentally.

I understand your frustration. As a 360 owner who's hoping for more of these games in the future, I feel some of that same frustration, when I see a demo with a lot of technical shortcomings released to the public. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy it and can overlook the technical problems, but most people can't. You know console gamers, so much is about graphics and immediate visual appeal. I wish these European RPG developers would take just a little more time and effort, to polish these ports up just a little more. I'll still buy the game, but if it isn't technically polished, most people won't give it a second look.

As you say, Larian needs to be meeting gamers halfway. From the 360 audience perspective, in the US at least, these are tiny little no-name RPGs from a distant land, with virtually no advertising budget behind them and zero buzz. Larian and the other Euro devs can't afford to half-ass it and hope for success.

Originally Posted by txa1265
Most people in the thread say that we should be thankful to get a demo, and that the game isn't designed for those who can only play in sessions of less than ~2 hours. That is silly - Divine Divinity was an obscure title known only to hardcore PC RPG fans, and Diviity 2 is not a AAA release by any stretch in English speaking areas. Releasing a demo is a marketing tool, and it appears that they are making poor use of it, and that is unfortunate.

Yes - it was me that called it abusive. My main point was that appearing to save but not represents 'user hostile design'.

I am not sure how long the demo is, but assuming 2 hours - that is 50% as long as the single player of Modern Warfare 2. Imagine that game with one save point! Personally, when I play a demo I want to get a save or two in there to check stuff out - and I don't want to have a multi-hour demo that tells me that if I'm not willing to sit in a single 2+ hour session I must not be ready for the game, or whatever it is that many of the Larian site folks seem to be saying.

To say something like:" the game isn't designed for those who can only play in sessions of less than ~2 hours. " is not just an insane statement, it makes me want to spit nails!!!!

For Pete's sake - I'm an anally retentive gamer who likes to save every 5 freaking minutes… ..and what has that got to do with the amount of time I'm spending on the game, in any case ; but besides that - why stupidly limit the marketing of your game to weekend gamers/retired people? What about people who like to, in addition to weekends, quickly pop in an hour or two of gaming every week night after school or work…

Aaarrggh, -sorry, when devs limit my saving capabilities, I just start seeing red; and this is perhaps the main reason why I hate console-style gaming.

If I didn't already have the game, I might have ranted even more, but it is tue that you can save anywhere in the game, - thank goodness. You cannot name your saves, which is slightly irritating, but a common enough trend, so I'll just calm right down again.

Still - what a stupid thing for a person to say from a marketing POV….

Between this crappy demo and their bug filled "remastered" version of Divine Divinity, I'm starting to lose faith in Larian Studios real quick.

I was also frustrated by the lack of save game in the demo - I was trying out different gfx options and driver options (some of which required a restart) - every time I did this, I had to restart the demo from scratch (since the autosaves didn't work) Anyway, I have just bought the game and it does have save-when-you-want, for which I'm grateful ;-) Runs well on my work machine (GTX 275) but the demo ran like crap on my home machine (Win 7 64-bit, 8800GTX etc) where I'll be playing …hopefully the demo uses erm…less optimized …code than the final release version.