danutz_plusplus

SasqWatch
Moved the discussion from "what are you playing"

You can also take the key and run. Since the dragon is optional, you can come back at a later time, whenever you feel strong enough for him. Sometimes having a few levels more makes the difference.

I had this feeling of hitting a wall often in the game and it is surely part of the concept. Assume for a moment, that from some point in time you would be able to kill all enemies without such feeling: The game would be boring from then on...

By the way, if you look for real frustration in Liurnia, look for a few giant lobsters in that swamp. :harl:

Edit: Regarding unique weapons: Yes, the definition, which ones are "unique" seems a little bit arbitrary. My feeling is, that that only those were put to that category, which have something dark/demonic in them, as the word somber indicates. So may be you consider those as dark weapons.
Yeah, I found the lobsters some time ago, but forgot to mention them. Holy shit, they wooped my ass. And I cannot beat them unless I cheese them with Torrent, always staying behind them. I tried it a couple of times on foot, but they're just way too fast.

Another enemy which was also kind of infuriating was the grafted dude (just a random common enemy; no name or anything) in the Laskyar ruins, in the swamp. So frikkin fast that neither dodging or blocking seemed to work. And he also teleports and then lunges at you. So infuriating. I somehow managed to get him using pets, but that was still a pain in the ass.

About the dragon, yeah, I think I need to explore the Liurnia area a lot more, since there seems to be quite a bit there. Plus, I think I'm underleveled since the land octopi in the swamp are also way too strong for me.

But I think all of this just fades into obscurity with what's to come later in the game. I just looked over a fight with Malenia. I love watching AfroSenju XL's reactions to fromsoft games (my favorite is his Sekiro playthrough). And he had a hell of a time with Malenia. I think what puts a cap on everything is just that she also has the ability to heal. I forsee a lot to bottomless anger from me in that fight. And since she's optional, that is also a temptation to just not put yourself through it. But I assume she is required for 100% achievements?
 

bkrueger

Nothing to see here.
Another enemy which was also kind of infuriating was the grafted dude (just a random common enemy; no name or anything) in the Laskyar ruins, in the swamp. So frikkin fast that neither dodging or blocking seemed to work. And he also teleports and then lunges at you. So infuriating. I somehow managed to get him using pets, but that was still a pain in the ass.
[...]
But I think all of this just fades into obscurity with what's to come later in the game. I just looked over a fight with Malenia. I love watching AfroSenju XL's reactions to fromsoft games (my favorite is his Sekiro playthrough). And he had a hell of a time with Malenia. I think what puts a cap on everything is just that she also has the ability to heal. I forsee a lot to bottomless anger from me in that fight. And since she's optional, that is also a temptation to just not put yourself through it. But I assume she is required for 100% achievements?
With grafted dude you mean those spider-like monsters, which look similar to the one you meet in Stormveil castle? Yes they are annoying, since they may appear out of nowhere and (at least some) can also spit poison on you before attacking in melee. They are even more annoying when they appear in dungeons because you cant avoid them there. Luckily you have summons available in most places, where they appear.

Yes, you need Malenia for all achievements, like all big bosses and a few of the secondary ones. Many people consider her the hardest one and she took me an uncountable number of tries in my first run. On the other hand it is an unbelievably satisfying feeling to finally win that fight...
At the moment, I personally have now many more problems with Placidusax, because that dragon has a one-kill laser-shot attack in his last phase which I manage to dodge once in most cases, but the second one has then always hit me in my tries against him up to now...:cry:

Edit:
The whole area, in which Malenia lives, is completely optional and not even easy to reach. But I find its level design so great that I would recommend going there even only to have a look at it! It starts in the branches of a big tree and continues in a castle. Both together could alone make enough area for a complete game.
Another thing I heartily recommend to do is to play the Ranni-Questline, which also brings you to several locations you wouldn't see otherwise. To trigger that questline you need to go to Castle Caria, which is in the hills surrounding the swamp of Liurnia. So you could use that for a little bit of leveling up even right now. Exploring the hills around the swamp is a fun thing anyways and you will find many interesting things there.
I just realize that I sound like a complete fanboy and I even don't like the concept of soulslikes. But just exploring all the areas in Elding Ring is so much fun, it would even be fun without any enemies...
 
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danutz_plusplus

SasqWatch
With grafted dude you mean those spider-like monsters, which look similar to the one you meet in Stormveil castle? Yes they are annoying, since they may appear out of nowhere and (at least some) can also spit poison on you before attacking in melee. They are even more annoying when they appear in dungeons because you cant avoid them there. Luckily you have summons available in most places, where they appear.
It's similar to the one in Stormveil, but less beefier and faster. Actually, I cheesed the one in Stormveil with the crossbow from outside a narrow door he couldn't get through. So I don't know how fast he is.

This is the one I mean, he spawns at 1:10.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNNMopzy8Gs

Yes, you need Malenia for all achievements, like all big bosses and a few of the secondary ones. Many people consider her the hardest one and she took me an uncountable number of tries in my first run. On the other hand it is an unbelievably satisfying feeling to finally win that fight...
At the moment, I personally have now many more problems with Placidusax, because that dragon has a one-kill laser-shot attack in his last phase which I manage to dodge once in most cases, but the second one has then always hit me in my tries against him up to now...:cry:
Yeah, sounds like Malenia will be a real pain in the ass. So far, for me at least, Orphan of Kos, the Owl Father and Saint Ishin were the toughest enemies in fromsoft games. And it sounds like Malenia will be up there. Potentially the worst, since I hate enemies that heal themselves.

Good luck with the dragon. Sounds like a real pain in the ass also.
 

bkrueger

Nothing to see here.
Yes, that is the spider-like enemy I also had in mind. You will meet them from time to time. The guy in that video looks a bit underlevelled for me. You should be able to kill those secondary enemies shown before that spider with one, at most two, hits, otherwise it gets too tedious.

As far as I remember Malenia only heals herself by hitting you (kind of life-leech ability). You need to learn to kill her without being hit too often, anyways, because that would kill you. So once you are good enough to kill her, the self healing doesn't make a big difference any more. However, her self healing works even if you block her hit, so blocking is useless in that fight. You need to attack her very fast and run or roll away, whenever you see a hit coming.
 

bkrueger

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I play a samurai, using a long bow and a katana. I use the katana "Rivers of Blood", which scales mainly with dexterity and Arcane. But for the bow I also invest in strength, which also supports the katana. I used a shield for a long time until I realized that it is not really useful for me, since speed/rolling is in fact more important for that build. I have also invested in vigor since that is important for higher levels. Also I have invested in endurance since I like to wear heavy armour (that is not really conform to the build, however, it is more since I find the armour of some bosses cool...). I sometimes also use a great bow, which is useful, when you need to kill something big from distance.
Note: I don't play online, so no PvP for me. For that I would probably need a different build.
 

danutz_plusplus

SasqWatch
I started with strength in mind, then at around 23 switched to dex, and also got that to 22 then found Treespear which also required 18 faith. So I'm all over the place. And now I think I have too little vigor and endurance.

I'm starting to doubt if I'll stay with Treespear. Sometimes it's good due to the reach, but it's so slow. And sometimes it gets me into a lot of trouble. I'll have to see. But I haven't really found anything better. Aside from Bloodhound's Fang.

I equiped the talisman that gives +3 to stats, but increases damage taken. So far so decent. Aside from some difficulty spikes.

The more I hear about DLCs for the game, the more I think I'll stop my current playthrough. But I guess I keep getting dragged back in. It's that captivating.
 
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bkrueger

Nothing to see here.
I started with strength in mind, then at around 23 switched to dex, and also got that to 22 then found Treespear which also required 18 faith. So I'm all over the place. And now I think I have too little vigor and endurance.

I'm starting to doubt if I'll stay with Treespear. Sometimes it's good due to the reach, but it's so slow. And sometimes it gets me into a lot of trouble. I'll have to see. But I haven't really found anything better. Aside from Bloodhound's Fang.

I equiped the talisman that gives +3 to stats, but increases damage taken. So far so decent. Aside from some difficulty spikes.

The more I hear about DLCs for the game, the more I think I'll stop my current playthrough. But I guess I keep getting dragged back in. It's that captivating.
I assume you have activated Godric's great Rune? Using that gives +5 to all attributes.

Thinking about your build is a good motivation to complete the Academy since Rennala offers the option to respec.
 

danutz_plusplus

SasqWatch
I assume you have activated Godric's great Rune? Using that gives +5 to all attributes.

Thinking about your build is a good motivation to complete the Academy since Rennala offers the option to respec.
I have the rune equiped but haven't bothered to buy those consumables to cast it. I understand it only stays up until you die, and then you need another consumable? I'm kind of weary of that kind of buff. I usually leave that for fights that seem impossible. Also, are the charges for triggering that limited? I seem to remember the old lady, in Round-table hold unless i'm mistaken, selling only 5 of them.

So, so far I only have the talisman which permanently grants the +3 to stats.
 

bkrueger

Nothing to see here.
I have the rune equiped but haven't bothered to buy those consumables to cast it. I understand it only stays up until you die, and then you need another consumable? I'm kind of weary of that kind of buff. I usually leave that for fights that seem impossible. Also, are the charges for triggering that limited? I seem to remember the old lady, in Round-table hold unless i'm mistaken, selling only 5 of them.

So, so far I only have the talisman which permanently grants the +3 to stats.
Theoretically you can farm the Rune Arcs, funnily enough from rats. But the drop rate is so low, I never managed to get one, when I tried it a few times, and don't bother any more because farming is boring.
Some merchants sell them, but only in finite numbers. You also get them, if you invade a world and win (there are a few side quests, where you invade worlds of NPCs). Maybe also when winning the fight in an evergoal, but I am not sure if I remember that correctly. Edit: Most of them can be found on corpses or in chests when exploring, like other goodies.

My use of the rune arcs is exactly opposite to yours: I equip them for my normal venturing in the wild in order to make life easier. I avoid dying as much as possible there. When fighting against a boss, where I expect to die often, I don't use them, because they run out to fast in that case. In any case you shouldn't plan your equipment on the basis of having a rune active, see it more as a goodie.
 

JDR13

SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor
I started with strength in mind, then at around 23 switched to dex, and also got that to 22 then found Treespear which also required 18 faith. So I'm all over the place. And now I think I have too little vigor and endurance.
It sounds like you're spread sort of thin. I think most people min-max for a more effective build?

I'm going to start another character soon and focus almost entirely on strength and endurance, or at least that's the plan. I won't be speedy, but I want to hit like a tank while absorbing damage and maintaining poise.
 

Zloth

I smell a... wumpus!?

bkrueger

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Holy clipping issues, Batman!! I hope From fixed that.
Don't know if they fixed that, but I found the hassle to bring the monster to that position and then slowly whacking it down (and he had to repeat that procedure a few times, since the monster teleported away from time to time) would have annoyed me much more than a regular fight. So I assume it was more a demonstration of what is possible than a useful tip (even for players who are willing to cheese).

Edit: If I had to find a cheese I would try to jump up to one of the walls with the horse and then use a bow. That works against several melee-only enemies and is not even cheesing in the narrow sense, since it uses only intended mechanics. However you would have to find out whether the monster can teleport on the wall beside you or can hit you with poison there...
 
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bkrueger

Nothing to see here.
I'm going to start another character soon and focus almost entirely on strength and endurance, or at least that's the plan. I won't be speedy, but I want to hit like a tank while absorbing damage and maintaining poise.
Interesting plan! I would be interested to learn how that works out, because I have the following feeling: In theory that build (in principle a tank) should be as viable as a fast and light fighter. In practice I feel that the latter works better. In any case you need to also invest in vigor, that is a must for the later game regardless of the build. What is you build in your preceding run?
 

JFarrell71

SasqWatch
I've always favored speed (and rolling, by extension) in From games. There are always a bunch of enemies who will break your poise and take all of your stamina with one or maybe two hits, no matter how much you buff those stats. Whereas if you dodge roll successfully, they miss you entirely. To me the benefits of that are always greater.

I'd have to look up my stats, but I think I spread them around quite a bit. Not much into Faith, as usual, but I put some points into almost everything else. More dex than strength, but not by a ton. I like to be able to do/use different stuff more than I like to be awesome at one thing, and the difference from a level or three is barely noticeable unless it hits an equipment threshold (like lowering your load just enough to be able to wear/wield a desired loadout and still fast roll, or qualifying to use a particular weapon)
 

JDR13

SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor
Interesting plan! I would be interested to learn how that works out, because I have the following feeling: In theory that build (in principle a tank) should be as viable as a fast and light fighter. In practice I feel that the latter works better. In any case you need to also invest in vigor, that is a must for the later game regardless of the build. What is you build in your preceding run?
I've yet to do a real run. I started playing as a Vagabond shortly after release, but the PC version was glitchy and ran like crap at the time. I only played for around 12-15 hours before shelving it to wait for patches.

Im going to start a run soon because I feel like 1.07 might be the last big update.

And yeah, a tank can be just as fast as a light fighter as long as you keep your endurance high enough so that your equipment load stays under 30%. You don't have to sacrifice speed for armor if you dump enough points there. Of course that's easier said than done.
 

bkrueger

Nothing to see here.
I've yet to do a real run. I started playing as a Vagabond shortly after release, but the PC version was glitchy and ran like crap at the time. I only played for around 12-15 hours before shelving it to wait for patches.

Im going to start a run soon because I feel like 1.07 might be the last big update.

And yeah, a tank can be just as fast as a light fighter as long as you keep your endurance high enough so that your equipment load stays under 30%. You don't have to sacrifice speed for armor if you dump enough points there. Of course that's easier said than done.
The really bad penalty only starts at 70% equiment load. Staying below 30% while wearing any useful armour is unrealistic, I believe.
 

JDR13

SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor
The really bad penalty only starts at 70% equiment load. Staying below 30% while wearing any useful armour is unrealistic, I believe.
You're probably right about that being unrealistic. Light and Medium loads have the exact same roll speed anyways. Light just has a slightly longer roll distance.
 

bkrueger

Nothing to see here.
You're probably right about that being unrealistic. Light and Medium loads have the exact same roll speed anyways. Light just has a slightly longer roll distance.
Please keep us informed how your run works out!
Is your home infrastructure now in a state, which allows some serious gaming? Hope so for you!