Pladio

Guardian of Nonsense
Staff Member
Moderator
RPGWatch Donor
Original Sin Donor
I think it is likely both as many people are angry about black Ariel with the Little Mermaid Trailer apparently having over 1m dislikes on YouTube.

These things are a thing.

I believe the wokeness element is certainly one of the reasons for the criticism.

I don't doubt that not being canonical and having some elements changed around is also a reason though so they end up having both crowds hating them.

To be honest, I'd much prefer getting more fantasy fare rather than less, it's just that the writers for it are apparently not very good 🤣
 

Redglyph

SasqWatch
I don't doubt that not being canonical and having some elements changed around is also a reason though so they end up having both crowds hating them.
Yes, it must be difficult to make Tolkien's fans happy. 😅 There are entire forums filled with interpretations of the lore, so imagine the unlucky writer who has to stitch snatches of lore and fill gaps for a show that takes place in that age. Then after that, the show is compared to the quality of TLotR and The Hobbit.

Though I haven't seen any specific problematic fact, just general statements about the lore not being correct (and one earlier example that was apparently not justified). Anyway, there is simply no show that is 100% accurate even when they just have to follow books.

To be honest, I'd much prefer getting more fantasy fare rather than less, it's just that the writers for it are apparently not very good 🤣
Anything else worth watching these days? I was hoping to see the 2nd season of Carnival Row but nothing yet...
 

Pladio

Guardian of Nonsense
Staff Member
Moderator
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Original Sin Donor
The only ones I have really enjoyed other than the obvious big names (e.g. Witcher) are:

- Shadow and Bone - interesting concepts, but actors aren't triple AAA
- Arcane - based on League of Legends lore, which I never got into, so there's no need to know much about it, but it has a cyberpunk feel to it more than fantasy
- The Dragon Prince - world is interesting, but it's a bit kiddy

Those are the ones still running, from older ones, I would say Merlin and the Magicians are both quite fun after the first season when the actors learn what their roles are.

Then there's Grimm which is more B-type but I enjoyed it for what it was and I liked how they adapted the old stories to be something different.

I tried watching these ones, but didn't like them too much:
- Locke and Key - I found it very obvious what was happening in many cases and otherwise found the plot subpar
- Fate Wynx Saga - I tried watching this and just couldn't.
 

Arhu

Two Sides
Administrator
Yes, it must be difficult to make Tolkien's fans happy. 😅 There are entire forums filled with interpretations of the lore, so imagine the unlucky writer who has to stitch snatches of lore and fill gaps for a show that takes place in that age. Then after that, the show is compared to the quality of TLotR and The Hobbit.
I read pages upon pages of stuff the movies did wrong back in the day, so yeah... Best not to be too invested in a source material if you want to enjoy different things in life that are set in the same universe. Or just stick to the books and ignore everything else.

Anything else worth watching these days?
Don't know about new stuff but I actually started a chronological run through the Hercules & Xena shows from the 90s. Missed lots of episodes on television back then and they are actually still very nice to watch casually.
 

danutz_plusplus

SasqWatch

Living with Yourself. A pretty decent short series, which had a low midpoint, then picked back up, and then kind of ended in a bit lame of an ending. It had some interesting philosophical ideas, around the idea of identity. If you like Paul Rudd, it's worth seeing, I guess. But nothing too mindblowing.
 

Couchpotato

Opinionated Blockhead
I think it is likely both as many people are angry about black Ariel with the Little Mermaid Trailer apparently having over 1m dislikes on YouTube.

These things are a thing.

I believe the wokeness element is certainly one of the reasons for the criticism.

I don't doubt that not being canonical and having some elements changed around is also a reason though so they end up having both crowds hating them.

To be honest, I'd much prefer getting more fantasy fare rather than less, it's just that the writers for it are apparently not very good 🤣
This movie director and producer is spot on with this video about the problem.

 

Redglyph

SasqWatch
This movie director and producer is spot on with this video about the problem.
Where to begin?

He talks about TLotR and shows us two nice quotes about respecting the author's work, but he admits later that he never read the books in the first place. 😆

Then he says the series has been made for money, as if it weren't the case of the movies. He goes on making his judgement based on a simple trailer, and compares that with a movie's trailer... It's even worse when he starts talking about the 2nd quote, this guy has absolutely no idea whether they "stray from the original material" or not since he doesn't know the material and only has seen a trailer.

I stopped watching after 5 minutes, as it seems very speculative (it was made 7 months ago) and from someone who doesn't know much, though I agree with the quotes from Jackson and the other director.
 

Couchpotato

Opinionated Blockhead
The second quote is for the newer LOTR TV show. His talk is about forcing modern political views on older IPs. This is just part of his talk and the full interview is over five hours.

If you agree with the second quote your the problem with modern media, and the corporate world supports that view as well like Disney. That just destroys the IPs.

That whole channel is a good source of interviews with industry insiders.
 

Couchpotato

Opinionated Blockhead
Why bother there is always someone who never gets the point.

Make your own IP and stop changing the original work is the point. It's not about racism it's about doing whatever you want and not considering the lore of the original IP.

His whole interview goes in-depth about this problem.
 

Redglyph

SasqWatch
The second quote is for the newer LOTR TV show. His talk is about forcing modern political views on older IPs. This is just part of his talk and the full interview is over five hours.

If you agree with the second quote your the problem with modern media, and the corporate world supports that view as well like Disney. That just destroys the IPs.

That whole channel is a good source of interviews with industry insiders.
Ah OK, so the 2nd quote talks about our world, not the one of the lore, I misunderstood that part (my mistake, I didn't listen long enough). Well, or the director talking about it chose to interpret it that way, I don't pretend to know what the new series' maker really meant by that.

But he's still speculating based on that quote without having watched the episodes. How would you say it applies to the series? I honestly don't see any political agenda being forced on the series.
 

Couchpotato

Opinionated Blockhead
I would love to go into detail about the topic but some can't be civil, and this isn't the political forum. Anyway I find the latest series to be average at best. That's just me.

I even enjoyed the Halo TV series despite the backlash from fans and critics.

With the mermaid movie it doesn't make sense but that fable originated from Persian, Greek, and Arabian folk lore. Disney just wants to cash in on other demographics as usual.

It's called Disneyfication. ^^
 

Redglyph

SasqWatch
Yeah, maybe it goes further than the scope of this forum.

In that age of the lore, I don't remember ever seeing any specific colour requirement, as JFarrell71 said, though for my part it's been a long time since I read the books. I would hardly consider that as forcing our world into Tolkien's fantasy, but I know some people are sensitive to that.
 

Couchpotato

Opinionated Blockhead
Talking about the new LOTR show reminded me of the canceled Conan series from the same company. That IP was to toxic and instead they went with the WoT IP instead.


Ha someone never read the original Conan novels as that was the appeal.

Only problem is Netflix now picked up the rights to make the show. :rotfl:
 

JDR13

SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor
Again, I highly doubt most of the people who dislike ROP dislike it because of the diversity. It's just a mediocre show, and that stands out more because of the enormous budget.

Sure, you'll have your ignorant racists here and there, but most people are just disappointed because it's weak.
 

JFarrell71

SasqWatch
Considering how poor most fantasy TV series are, no, I don't think that's the reason. The fan reviews on Rotten Tomatoes are one person after another complaining that the show doesn't hew closely enough to the books. I could give a fuck. And regardless of whether you do or don't, that has nothing to do with how good the show actually is.
 
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Redglyph

SasqWatch
I've watched a few bits of Nerd of the Rings' episode breakdown videos. He's obviously a big Tolkien fan and his view on the lore is interesting, though it goes well above my head. He doesn't seem offended at all, but for the example of the mithril he wondered why they didn't make it simpler by not trying to explain everything, especially since it's just a legend (technically a song).

Something else to keep in mind, the show doesn't own the whole licence, so they have to work around as they can (only "The Fellowship of the Ring, The Two Towers, The Return of the King, the appendices, and The Hobbit", "We do not have the rights to The Silmarillion, Unfinished Tales, The History of Middle-earth, or any of those other books"). From what NotR says, they did pretty well in that regard.

BTW I've read that the Embracer Group had recently acquired Middle-earth Enterprises and owned the rights to the film trilogies and any Tolkien-related movies, games, ... I'm not sure it's a good thing.