How would you prefer to donate on RPGWatch?

  • Recurring small monthly sum

  • Recurring medium monthly sum

  • Recurring large monthly sum

  • One-off small sum

  • One-off medium sum

  • One-off large sum

  • I would not donate

  • Other (please explain in comments) or staff member

Results are only viewable after voting.
Taluntain said:
This is something that I've discussed in one of the threads back when taking on RPGWatch in May of 2022 (man, time really flies...). I won't be doing it like Myrthos for several reasons, and the fact that much of the expenses and maintenance work done on the server and our hosting environment in general benefits more than RPGWatch alone is also a factor in that. Like you said, it would be difficult to calculate exactly how much of the various expenses to attribute to RPGWatch vs. the other sites I run and/or manage. There are certain expenses that are easy to attribute to RPGWatch alone, like various forum and addon licences and domains, but they represent only a fraction of the overall running and operational costs.

I've been running RPGWatch out of my own pocket for nearly two years now and to be honest, I didn't bother doing the maths on how much that's cost me. I've had to deal with a major disaster last summer when my house was flooded that's basically put my life on hold for several months and dealing with the aftermath of that has kept me preoccupied to the end of last year and beyond. My goal now is to get back on track with what I've been wanting to do around here last year before being interrupted by the flood.

Enabling RPGWatch visitors and members to contribute to the costs of keeping RPGWatch online in the future and offsetting some of the costs incurred over the last two years is definitely important, so that's my priority at the moment. Later on, I will be looking at advertising options, as ads are normally the main source of income for websites such as ours, since the majority of visitors will not support the site with donations. Once these basics are sorted out, it's easier to work on all the other aspects and improvements to the site, as you don't have to worry about the bills associated with keeping everything running any more. Profit isn't my primary concern here, as there are many better paying online enterprises than running independent gaming websites. I do run a business in RL though, so I need to make sure that in the long run I'm at least not losing money, and if there's any income left after covering all the expenses, that's just more incentive to work on and improve the site further.
Click to expand...
On the above, the Watch has always been able to rally its users to support - so I suggest you think about that too. Ads were never the main source of income.
 
@Taluntain

BTW, no offense, nothing personal and all that.

Since you took over the site loads faster, we got high-res avatars and you've maintained the integrity of the site. Overall, it's been positive - and that's coming from the sites #1 skeptic.

It is a great community and all these people could be withholding donations until you make a guarantee to keep the site ad-free. But, damnit, they're just too nice and trusting!

I say you should keep up the good work and continue to maintain the integrity of the site for as long as possible.

RPGwatch is an ad-free site.

PS. (Oh, fine, one little gog ad. We all agreed that was fine. :) )
 
SirJames said:
Tal also talks about the "hidden costs" of the value of myrthos time working on the site. Who knows how much that's worth! So, if the sites meeting costs from donations and turning a profit from ugly ads, when do staff members get paid for their time? Heck, when does anyone contributing to a site entirely made entirely of user posts, generously donated by people like valith, get paid?
Click to expand...
I agree with you about the concept of free-for-all once the costs are met, but don't fool yourself into believing that we users should get anything in return for what we post. We give the site a purpose, true, but we get more from being able to exchange our ideas with others and reading others' posts than what we give with our drivel.
 
SirJames said:
What Valith said was obviously very arrogant but had he only used the word "support" instead of "donate" he actually has a valid point. Are we not all supporters?
Click to expand...
The implication here is support that goes beyond the standard participation in the forums, either financial or in terms of time and effort invested into the site, as is the case with our staff.

SirJames said:
Any contribution; comments, critisisms, etc, along with general good will towards to site is certainly a show of support. In fact, that's the bulk of support. All the donations in the world would do nothing without users making posts. Especially true in the case of the "staff" posting on the front page.
Click to expand...
I certainly appreciate every active member contributing with their posts as well. I expect you missed the fact that all the staff receive Supporter status by default. Even some users who aren't official staff, actually, and I'll always be happy to recognize outstanding effort invested into RPGWatch by anyone by rewarding it with the Supporter tag.

SirJames said:
"Donor" is a much better world for those who donate.
Click to expand...
Donor has a very clinical ring to me, so I don't use it for this purpose.

SirJames said:
As I said earlier, the idea was always to take donations so the site could be ad free. Ad free for everyone. Some can afford to donate, others can't but we're all part of the community. People didn't donate to get a shiny golden label to set them appart. Specially blinged up to encourage "support".
Click to expand...
There is no bling, nothing was made special for it, the colour is literally the next one on XenForo's selection list after the default one and just happens to work with both our light and dark forum styles.

SirJames said:
But, apparently, we're getting ads too - regardless of costs being met or not. Tal can say sorcerers isn't infested with ads but just click the link and have a look. Would be a sad day to see all those banners and online casino ads on RPGwatch.
Click to expand...
Well, clearly you wouldn't see any, blocking all ads. But I appreciate your concern for those users who don't. The amount of ads on Sorcerer's Place is probably less than half of most gaming sites today and is also a direct result of dwindling ad income due to ad blocking's popularity. Obviously, when half of the users are blocking all ads, this makes a difference. But no worries, I never just replicate the advertising from one site to another, there's always plenty of consideration involved and what works on one site might not on another.

I've made it clear from the get-go that I do things a bit differently than Myrthos, so this is no surprise to anyone who's been paying attention 2 years ago. I appreciate that you might not like it, but throwing a fit over the fact that some members support the site with donations and that the site will also be supported by advertising -- which you will block anyway -- is more than a little hypocritical.

I'm sorry that I won't be paying you for your valuable posts just yet. But you're free to start a site on your own and start doing that, I'm sure that you'll be making a killing.

SirJames said:
Is the actual reality that Tal just grabbed a free site, that gets similar traffic to his own, just to stuff it with ads, doubling his ad hits, and make a profit while paying the staff nothing while potentially already meeting server costs from the ads on sorcerers alone?
Click to expand...
No, that's not the actual reality. Not unless I've been lost in a black hole since mid-2022 when I've taken over RPGWatch and couldn't put my nefarious plan into action until nearly 2 years later. I didn't even bother with making it possible for people to donate until a couple of days ago, because literally everything else was a priority for me. So your painting a dastardly picture of me is more than a bit off on the factual side.
 
Yea, I don't like the "hard sell" personally. Not saying this was done in this case, but in my opinion the "soft sell" is always the best way if asking for donations.

And also, maybe there could be an option to hide the supporter tag? I just think it stands out too much, or maybe make it match the other tags already on display. I plan on being a supporter, but to be honest that supporter tag stands out too much in a negative way for me. I know this might seem weird, but there it is. So in other words, the "supporter" thing would not have the reddish bright background color, but - say on Pladio's profile, it would be on the plain blue on blue background, just like the other ones on his avatar posts (such as "staff member" "moderator" "Original Sin donor")

I am not saying that, if others happen to like the stand out reddish color tint, that it should be changed, just asking if there could be an option to be a supporter but with the normal (and boring) blue on blue colors already being used for other "titles".
 
To be honest, and since others have mentioned it, I felt the same about the very-obvious 'Supporter' colour, but I didn't want to complicate things. Right now, I'd much prefer if it had the same colour as the other tags, but I understood the idea was to have other tags in other colours too (not sure how I feel about it). Nothing that would keep me awake at night.

It does look a little like a mini-ad. ;)

Regarding the word 'supporter': for speaking French, 'donor' does sound a little medical to me too, but that's only because French has distinct words for giving away blood/organ (donneur) and money (donateur). I'm not sure the same connotation exists in English, where 'donor' has the double meaning - so does 'donator', which is obsolete. However, 'supporter' sounds inadequate because it's tainted with a morale / political component that doesn't quite fit the situation.
 
Last edited:
Yeah, the color of that tag looks awkward to me as well (at least in the Light theme). I think it could be made to stand out some other way, without looking so out of place. Maybe the same background color as other tags, but a font that's a different color and/or bolded? But people will get used to the current one if it's left alone, I suppose.
 
Can one just use a credit card directly, or must it go via Paypal? I have (had?) a paypal account - but have lost the access details, since I used it many years ago. And I don't want to dig through all my cr*p to try and reset it (assuning they have't deactivated it...more drama, since the email address is already associated etc etc). I actually didn't want it even then, but it was the only way I could pay for something in the US I think - now I use my credit card for everything, so would much prefer that.
 
JDR13 said:
Only you could possibly be bothered by something that trivial.
Click to expand...
And me!

There's not a danger of making a two-tiered system. You've got one. Period. That's just how people work. There's an "in" and an "out" group. People will try to make up for it, but that's tricky to pull off accurately. Given so many people are donating, I think you might be scaring off new users with this, too.

Making the tag optional should help a ton, though. As long as everyone knows that's an option, nobody knows if a person without the tag is in or out. They do know if the tag is visible, so it isn't perfect, but it's a huge step forward. {I guess we could do an anonymous donation by creating a second account and donating with that, too.}
 
Zloth said:
I guess we could do an anonymous donation by creating a second account and donating with that, too
Click to expand...
Ooh, that's crafty - I like it.

Take your name, add a long word or number only known only by you, and use the resulting hash code as name for the secondary account. That way, nobody can guess who is behind (hash functions are one-way) but you can still prove it's you. :D

Alright, now it's time for my pills...
 
Zloth said:
And me!

There's not a danger of making a two-tiered system. You've got one. Period. That's just how people work. There's an "in" and an "out" group. People will try to make up for it, but that's tricky to pull off accurately. Given so many people are donating, I think you might be scaring off new users with this, too.

Making the tag optional should help a ton, though. As long as everyone knows that's an option, nobody knows if a person without the tag is in or out. They do know if the tag is visible, so it isn't perfect, but it's a huge step forward. {I guess we could do an anonymous donation by creating a second account and donating with that, too.}
Click to expand...
This has me very concerned now. Am I in the in group or the out group? Also if I don't know which group I'm in does it matter that 2 groups exist at all?

Also making the tag optional will be problematic because then everyone will have to hide their supporter tag or risk being tagged as braggadocios and get put into the out group or worse yet another made up group. While we are at it we should get rid of join date and how many messages people have as they may intimidate some posters.

let's not stop there though lets get rid of avatars and the little phrases under them. I mean some people have nice pictures and mine is just a big S and you've smelled a wumpus and I never have. How do you think that makes me feel?

Really the whole thing is ridiculous, are we back in high school? If people feel the supporter tag is some kind of status symbol and people that have it are in a different tier than people that don't then that's a problem with the individual not the tag or site.

As far as Tal making money off this site, good I'm sure he puts work into it and he should make something. If he takes part of my donation and goes out tonight to have a dinner and a beer then good on him as long as the site is funded and taken care of.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.
 
It is interesting seeing the social dynamics, even in this little ecosystem of ours. And I do see both sides of the issue; both the reproduction of social classes and hierarchies and the attempt to fight against that.
Ideologically I'd love it if we didn't reproduce the same system that we see outside, in our capitalistic world. That's why at heart, I'd love it if we could be communists (and the pure form of that, not what the USSR or what China calls itself).
And I even think that under the proper education and culture, and system that encourages certain things and discourages others, it maybe could work. Even at the emotional and intelligence maturity level that humanity currently is at. Unfortunately the powers that be don't want that. And enough regular people are temporarily embarrassed millionaires that it certainly won't work.

Getting back to our situation, I'm fine with removing all donor markings. I think that would be the better system. Wish we could do the same in the outside world where these things have more material consequences.
 
danutz_plusplus said:
Getting back to our situation, I'm fine with removing all donor markings. I think that would be the better system. Wish we could do the same in the outside world where these things have more material consequences.
Click to expand...
If we do remove them all, be sure to make a bigger deal about the donations. If it wasn't for all the 'supporter' tags showing up everywhere, I wouldn't have known it was happening!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.