Kingmaker - Preview @PC Gamer

[Silver]

PC Gamer checked out Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

Character alignment plays a big role in the dialogue options you’ll have. As a lawful neutral person, I mostly only had access to neutral options, with some that skewed good or evil. Repeatedly making those choices will slowly move the needle on my alignment over time. It’s neat to see such a faithful representation of alignment that doesn’t feel black and white. There’s a level of nuance and opportunity for neutrality that isn’t often represented in RPGs. I don’t have to be a grand hero or a villain, just someone trying to make it in the world. It’s also appropriate for the premise of building your own kingdom, where a certain level of neutrality could be what your people need to survive.

Combat is a familiar combination of real-time with the ability to pause and issue commands. By default, your party will fight controlled by an AI, but you can seize control and tell them what to do. They seem smart enough to handle low level threats without my input, but when a more significant threat comes around, combat starts to feel more obtuse. Since enemies are constantly attacking just as quickly as you are, pausing the fight doesn’t provide as much insight into how the fight is going as I'd like. Mousing over party members does reveal who they’re currently targeting, but trying to establish the overall narrative of a battle takes more work than it should. This creates some awkward situations: In one fight, my wizard was channeling spells while also being gutted by a sword.

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Thanks Couchpotato!

More information.

 

[Copper Coin]

Character alignment plays a big role in the dialogue options you’ll have. As a lawful neutral person, I mostly only had access to neutral options, with some that skewed good or evil.

I don't understand this. Why not just have all the dialog options available?

40 hours to complete, and an additional 80 hours for all the side content and kingdom building.

That is way too long. Must be a lot of filler.

Players will be working to expand the territory around their piece of the Stolen Lands to make more room for building settlements and establishing trade routes with other nations.

Now this sounds cool, but hopefully it wont just be a side gimmick.

 

[Winterfart]

I don't understand this. Why not just have all the dialog options available?

Because players would just choose everytime the option corresponding to their alignement without thinking about it (the Mass Effect syndrome).

In this game, alignements can change during the course of the campaign, and players have to be carefull in their responses if they want their character to keep their initial disposition.
Palladin can't choose too many evil or neutral options without losing their good divine power, but sometimes they don't have a choice, etc…

 

[rjshae]

As a lawful neutral person, I mostly only had access to neutral options, with some that skewed good or evil.

That's actually kind of cool, for a D&D game. Usually it's a choice between a nice person, mercenary, or jerk. Implementing more (hidden) options will be a lot more work for the writers, but, hopefully, it will give the game a better role playing feel.

 

[Big Wargle]

I agree with the alignement affecting the dialogue options. Sometimes less is more, and being a different person morally and ethically should warrant different thinking. As Winterfart points out, many people don't think much about the consistency aspect, meaning that in practise their characters come off as schizophrenics roleplaying-wise.
Now, obviously, this would require a good execution to work.

 

[booboo]

I am really looking forward to this game...being more similar to something like Baldur's gate rather than D:OS is a plus for me. I loved D:OS, but that satisfied a different itch...

 

[Darkheart]

I am really looking forward to this game…being more similar to something like Baldur's gate rather than D:OS is a plus for me. I loved D:OS, but that satisfied a different itch…

Same here! Can't wait! I have a lot of work-related stuff going on in September, but come October I will have 2-3 weeks off. And then it's Kingmaker time (for a long time)!
I'm already giddy thinking about char creation!

 

[Copper Coin]

It should be up to the player to decide for themselves how they want to roleplay when it comes to moral dialog options. This system feels too limiting, considering how rigid alignment is in Pathfinder.

 

[TomRon]

I think this sounds great actually, I like that my alignment limits my possible responses, as long as it doesn't go to far. I have a much harder time liking the approach where your character can be and do everything (TES).

 

[Copper Coin]

Perhaps my biggest problem is that I find the alignment system of D&D and Pathfinder highly flawed. It's harder to ignore when it affects which dialog options I can pick.

 

[TomRon]

It should be up to the player to decide for themselves how they want to roleplay when it comes to moral dialog options. This system feels too limiting, considering how rigid alignment is in Pathfinder.

I disagree, just look at how it works in PoE, you have loads of dialogue options you can't use because you lack the attributes, the skill, the class or the ability. And the game is better for it. I see no reason why alignment can't work the same way.

 

[TomRon]

Perhaps my biggest problem is that I find the alignment system of D&D and Pathfinder highly flawed. It's harder to ignore when it affects which dialog options I can pick.

Fair enough. I like the alignment system. What I don't like though is when good and evil are either the holy do-gooder paladin or the crazy maniac. As Evil, I should be able to say some nice things if it will get me what I want. As good, I should be able to pretend to be evil to help someone. Etc. (I love it when a game gives dialogue options as both "truth" and "lie")

 

[SSIGuy]

Since enemies are constantly attacking just as quickly as you are, pausing the fight doesn’t provide as much insight into how the fight is going as I'd like. Mousing over party members does reveal who they’re currently targeting, but trying to establish the overall narrative of a battle takes more work than it should. This creates some awkward situations...

This is concerning to me. I admit I'm not a big fan of RTwP and would rather see a true turn-based system. I find RTwP systems often result in combat that feels too chaotic with too little agency... and then pausing to keep track of things starts to feel more like a chore than a game. Those comments don't alleviate my (albeit biased) concerns.

 

[Winterfart]

Perhaps my biggest problem is that I find the alignment system of D&D and Pathfinder highly flawed. It's harder to ignore when it affects which dialog options I can pick.

The alignement system is fine.
I felt like you for a long time, then I realised that most CRPG just use a simplified version of it for their dialog trees anyway (good, neutral, evil, roguish…). It's fine.

I like Obsidian approach to dialogs. FalloutNV, KOTORII or PoE are flawed games but they're among my favorite solely because dialog choices are always satisfaying.

 

[Carnifex]

No system in a game tends to be perfect, and I'm pretty certain I can work with this one just fine.

 

[Copper Coin]

I disagree, just look at how it works in PoE, you have loads of dialogue options you can't use because you lack the attributes, the skill, the class or the ability. And the game is better for it. I see no reason why alignment can't work the same way.

PoE2 skill checks are about whether you know something or can convince somebody. When it comes to moral responses, you're hardly ever limited by disposition.

Instead PoE2 handles disposition by changing the responses of the NPC. For example, Asturas will try to manipulate you by appealing to your highest disposition. If you're benevolent, he will appeal to your sense of compassion. If you're honest, he will appeal to your sense of justice. If you're rational, he will appeal to your sense of reason.

In my opinion, changing NPC responses based on alignment is a much better system than limiting player responses based on allignment. PoE2 handles it perfectly.

 

[Copper Coin]

The reason I dislike the D&D alignment system is because it treats good and evil like black and white concepts, and I find the lawful vs chaotic spectrum just as rigid. The best alignment systems deal with specific virtues rather than broad generalizations.

 

[TomRon]

The reason I dislike the D&D alignment system is because it treats good and evil like black and white concepts, and I find the lawful vs chaotic spectrum just as rigid. The best alignment systems deal with specific virtues rather than broad generalizations.

I can agree with this to some degree, but on the other hand I find that Good and Evil should be black and white. The problem is when I can't pick a "good" response for evil reasons, or the other way around. Especially playing an evil character that isn't a complete idiot is hard when the system gives too few options. It needs to be more nuanced, but that's not a problem with the alignment system but with the dialogues.

In P'n'P, it's much easier to follow your alignment while still not being a moron...

 

[purpleblob]

What I enjoyed the most in Kingmaker are:

1. Combat - the game really make you to explore and experiment with abilities/potions/scrolls/spells/items available to you to get through some tough battles. I never thought torch can be the most effectice weapon I have in possession against certain enemy I faced early on in the game
2. Character building - not just for the combat but to survive in the wild, track the enemies effectively, to unlock the extra dialogues and secrets... etc etc
3. Story telling - this really surprised me, maybe because I didn't exactly have high expectation, but the main quest really got me hooked up.

On the other hand, things I didn't enjoy are:
1. Companion interactions - this really fell short in my opinion. Funny enough, I found NPCs that doesn't join your party more interesting.
2. Encumbrance - now the added weather affect also slows down the party movement. Sigh.

All in all, I'm really looking forward to the full release!!!

 

[Wisdom]

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2. Encumbrance - now the added weather affect also slows down the party movement. Sigh.

Even tho I like playing my games on the hardest difficulty permadeath whatever mode... I hate encumbrance.. With a passion! Its one of the things I mod out first chance I get.