The best fantasy world system?

[Dafela]

So with DnD going down, is there any replacement?
I don't play PnP anymore, but if there should be some new big RPG, is there a good deep setting for it?
DnD was great for all kind of writing from different authors. It was a place for your own stories, but it got so deep that I'm not sure if there could be anything else more unique.
Here is PnP ranked list I have found: https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-pen-and-paper-rpg_s-v1

Possible candicates with good lore and good skill/class system:
Tolkien world - I would actually say that it is not good setting, because it is too much restrictive, it is good for telling stories/movies, but I'm not sure how innovative it could be. The proof is that it is not that used as much as DnD.
It is too much "grounded".
Warhammer - there is a lot of really good books and combat games, but no RPG games with good stories. I actually liked the professions from their rule book, but it was too much complicated - it felt like created more for war groups than 1 player. And I think it was never reworked to be functional.
World of Warcraft - owned licence reworked for mainstream, but I liked their class system - the good and bad version of it, similar system is in Star wars. It does leave out duplicates, still you can choose and RP your chosen class - easier to implement this into a PC game I would say without knowing much about it. Also the classic progression from 1 class into multiclasses.
Elderscrolls - same problem as WoW
Drakensang/Dark eye - I don't know much about it
Malazan book of the fallen - I was told that it does have rich lore, but nobody tried to tranfer it into gaming/PnP

I will leave out half human worlds like Dune, Harry Potter or Game of Thrones - for me it is interesting for a while, but then it does hit a wall of too much reality.

Dragon Age - very troubled franchise, but still the lore was quite deep and I liked the classic class progression.

Edit:
Shadowrun - modern setting with fantasy addition.
Star Wars - fantasy scifi

 

[Redglyph]

D&D is going down?

 

[wolfgrimdark]

The real question is who is D&D going down on?

 

[JFarrell71]

I guess you're unfamiliar with (tabletop) role-playing games, since you didn't mention a single one. Not even Pathfinder, which is D&D in a different pair of pants.

People did what they usually do... they made some noise about being angry and "quitting" D&D, and then they went right back to playing it because it is, still, what most people (aka their friends) play, and they already own a bunch of books.

 

[Drithius]

Given your examples, I think you're after a setting, not a "system". Best setting is the one you and your friends are interested in playing together.

Mine would be Ptolus: City by the Spire.

 

[Dafela]

Given your examples, I think you're after a setting, not a "system". Best setting is the one you and your friends are interested in playing together.

Mine would be Ptolus: City by the Spire.

Yes, I meant setting. What I meant is that it seems like every time something does have monopoly, someone will try to take over and use it for or greed or lately to destroy parts of it by political agenda or streamline parts of it too much, so it is not that good anymore, and lately it does target favourite communities.
So it was intriguing to think about it - what kind of fantasy world could be competition to DnD.

 

[Pladio]

Dnd is a ruleset not really a world.

 

[Dafela]

That is true - it is a ruleset with a lot of modules, but what is strange to me is that it is not the best ruleset, so maybe the question is why it became such fenomen.
A lot of those system were used because they had cool setting/world attached to it and it was created for it. But that was also their limitation - you had to keep the lore, while DnD was totally free fantasy.
But now all fantasy/half fantasy worlds were already reworked for PnP, so the question is even more interesting - what is the magic of DnD. Maybe it was the connection to World of Warcraft - players from DnD became players of WoW. It could have be also the nicely painted rulebooks and open source system, which is like modding of Skyrim I guess.
For example newer, but universal system like GURPS never reached such popularity.

I forgot Shadowrun - that is another system which was very successful, but it never reached popularity of DnD - or did it? And it was a new ruleset plus world created together like DnD. But I believe the realistic world even if slightly altered doesn't have such huge creative possibilities like fantasy world.

 

[Beren]

My favorites would be Pillars of Eternity Tabletop and Pathfinder. Both in my opinion strike that optimum balance between accessibility / learnability and complexity / capacity for customization.

 

[Pladio]

That is true - it is a ruleset with a lot of modules, but what is strange to me is that it is not the best ruleset, so maybe the question is why it became such fenomen.
A lot of those system were used because they had cool setting/world attached to it and it was created for it. But that was also their limitation - you had to keep the lore, while DnD was totally free fantasy.
But now all fantasy/half fantasy worlds were already reworked for PnP, so the question is even more interesting - what is the magic of DnD. Maybe it was the connection to World of Warcraft - players from DnD became players of WoW. It could have be also the nicely painted rulebooks and open source system, which is like modding of Skyrim I guess.
For example newer, but universal system like GURPS never reached such popularity.

I forgot Shadowrun - that is another system which was very successful, but it never reached popularity of DnD - or did it? And it was a new ruleset plus world created together like DnD. But I believe the realistic world even if slightly altered doesn't have such huge creative possibilities like fantasy world.

As others have said, why do you think it's a bad system?

 

[purpleblob]

My favourite is Pathfinder - both the ruleset and the lore in general.

I would like to see a cRPG in Warcraft universe but I doubt it - WoW/MMO model is likely to be a lot more profitable.

 

[Morrandir]

But now all fantasy/half fantasy worlds were already reworked for PnP, so the question is even more interesting - what is the magic of DnD.

Imho it's not the magic of DnD, but the magic of the Forgotten Realms. And this comes from just being the most popular of DnD's many campaign settings.

In a PnP game it's tremendeously helpful for immersion and gemeflow if the players (and especially the game master) know the setting well. It's just a lot more fun to play in a world which you know, e.g. which cultures or regions exist, what the important historical facts are, what the people believe in, which creatures exist etc.
For example when the group meets Mindflyers, it's easier for the players to decide what their characters know (and don't know) of these creatures and let the characters act accordingly. They don't need to ask the game master out of character what their characters should know.

So when you find a group of a 5 people, chances are that 3-4 already know the Forgotten Realms, but only 2 know the next popular (non-DnD) setting.
(It's the same with the Sword Coast on Toril. Sword Coast is popular because of so many books, games, caompaigns, and movies play in Toril.)

So then, when you want to play in this setting, you of course also use the DnD ruleset.
While not impossible, it can still be tediuos to play another ruleset on a setting that is not naturally connected with it (e.g. GURPS).

 

[Zloth]

But now all fantasy/half fantasy worlds were already reworked for PnP, so the question is even more interesting - what is the magic of DnD. Maybe it was the connection to World of Warcraft - players from DnD became players of WoW. It could have be also the nicely painted rulebooks and open source system, which is like modding of Skyrim I guess.
For example newer, but universal system like GURPS never reached such popularity.

So, we just got this new game group together! What shall we play? Two folks know GURPS, one knows Traveller, one knows Cyberpunk and Pathfinder, and all six know D&D. I guess we play D&D. If we stick together for years, we might start a second game using GURPS for a change of pace.

It's sad, but I think D&D is the most popular because D&D is the most popular. For another system to take over, it's going to have to be FAR better than D&D.

 

[Dafela]

That does make sense, thank you for your replies.

What I have heard DnD was always class based system, which was trying to be more and more freeform, now in BG3 it ended with a pool of spells for all kinds of schools of magic, which made disfunctional wizard vs sorcerer and cleric vs paladin, also druid is a bit left out there, I guess it should have more in common with barbarian or cleric and still it is not clear what it is. Warlock doesn't have enough of dark spells, rogue arcane trickster is almost warlock, so I have heard that maybe this class system is outdated and should be replaced by a skill system. But I didn't see a good skill system among the old rulesets, I liked Warhammer professions and MMO dark/light versions of classes, which will leave out doubles.
But it seems like Cortex got a new version in 2020, where they have basically spellcrafting for magic, so maybe one day there will be fantasy ruleset.

But if you will try to retrace skill system from the opposite direction, it will end up in groups, and in order to have those groups cool enough, you will end up with schools and guilds with restrictions and oaths like it was in Elderscrolls or Outward.

But the biggest problem with DnD for me is really the latest proclamations of WOTC how they will remove parts of lore or they removed some already because someone didn't like it. That is scary for me.

But maybe I should relax - it seems like PnP group are more independent than players of computer games. If they will not like it, they will simply use another PnP system instead. Because even if there is no other winner atm, there are plenty to choose from or easier to create.

 

[Hastar]

So this long discussion is just you complaining about D&D changing races to species? Just use the rules your group enjoys. Hardly any D&D group goes 100% by the book. No group I ever played with had restrictions on demi-human levels in AD&D.

5e D&D is pretty easy not to die so we use meat-grinder rules and allow more than one buff at higher levels. The DM has to increase the AC and Hit Points of most of the creatures in my group. Also, we don't allow multi-classing of barbarians and monks. That's just stupid .

D&D is so popular because it was the first and artists like David Trampier and Jeff Dee were amazing. Unless Hasbro or WotC really screw the pooch, it will remain the most popular. Even if right-wingers get their feelings hurt about the Drow race because they are triggered so easily.

 

[largh]

What happened to RuneQuest? It was popular when I was a kid but it has not been implemented to computer games as far as I know. I quite liked the world, ruleset and setting.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Drakensang/Dark eye - I don't know much about it

This is a pen & paper RPG setting with a few sister settings.
It has a hugely detailed world, but is almost unknown to the English speaking world due to its lack of translations.
Only with the newest 5th edition, this has changed a bit. There are several rules/setting publications available in English language.

Wikipedia has a good quick overview over that : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dark_Eye

Unique to this "Aventuria" setting is its "Newspaper", the "Aventurischer Bote". I know of no system having a thing like that.
The "Bote" has become thinner and thinner throughout its years. Its great time was during the 80s and the 90s, during the Borbarad Campaign.

Also notable are the TDE Elves. They are extremely different to the Elves of D&D, even when they are Wood Elves. Their difference can be glimpsed at with the expansion of Drakensang 2 : "Philleasson's Secret". It shows a culture of High Elves that got succumbed and finally destroyed by great evil.

The sister setting of Myranor is basically High Fantasy, whereas Aventuria is Low Fantasy.
Myranor is very much based on the Roman Empire, but it has unique races unknown to Aventuria.

The Aventuria setting has recently received a few more setting books that - in my opinion - kind of nudge this setting more into High Fantasy.
However, since I am out of touch with TDE around the time of the arrival of the 5th edition, I don't know too much about it.

There is another sister setting called "The Dark Times", which is like Aventuria a few thousand years before "now". It consists only of a single box containing setting and rule books. (During the 80s and 90s, setting and rule books for TDE were often sold as "Boxes".)

Another notable TDE sister setting is The Black Cat. It is a pen & paper role playing setting with - originally - "awakened" cats, who act like adventurers within Aventuria. They hide their "true self" (as Adventurers) from the humans, elves, dwarves etc. . This sister setting got other animals recently as wll, I don't know whether they are playable or not, though.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Here is PnP ranked list I have found: https://www.ranker.com/crowdranked-list/greatest-pen-and-paper-rpg_s-v1

Quite biased, imho, because it contains only English-language pen & paper systems.
There are a lot more out there.

Just names which come instantly to my mind :
- Tunnels & Trolls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnels_&_Trolls
- Hârnmaster https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HârnMaster
- Midgard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midgard_(role-playing_game)
- Splittermond https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Splittermond
- Numenera https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numenera
- Tails of Equestria https://riverhorse.eu/our-games/my-little-pony-tails-of-equestria/
- Mutant Year Zero https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutant_(role-playing_game)

Besides, I even found a "timeline" in Wikipedia : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_tabletop_role-playing_games

 

[Carnifex]

Teach those D&D blokes about GURPS, and they'll convert.

 

[JFarrell71]

So, we just got this new game group together! What shall we play? Two folks know GURPS, one knows Traveller, one knows Cyberpunk and Pathfinder, and all six know D&D. I guess we play D&D. If we stick together for years, we might start a second game using GURPS for a change of pace.

It's sad, but I think D&D is the most popular because D&D is the most popular. For another system to take over, it's going to have to be FAR better than D&D.

I would go so far as to say that it doesn't matter how good any other system is. Entrenchment is very difficult to change. D&D products going away, that would do it, eventually. That is of course exceedingly unlikely to happen.