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-   -   Baldur's Gate 3 - Early Access Review @ PC Gamer (https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=46062)

JFarrell71 October 11th, 2020 20:12

The companions aren't evil. The fact that they don't immediately love you is only realistic: you just met, and under less than ideal circumstances. It allows Larian to actually show the development of the relationships between the characters. I'm 100% sure the plot doesn't end with you all hating each other's guts.

As far as your party being locked in, I don't love it, but it doesn't seem like a big deal if you take a step back for a minute. For one thing, it seems like there are only five companions anyway. Is that not true? Not just for EA, but for the game as a whole. I tend to keep the same characters throughout a game because I want to see all of their content, and if I replay I can use different ones and see different stuff. So forcing it on me, though that may grate a bit, doesn't impact my game much. Hopefully there's a plot justification.

wolfgrimdark October 11th, 2020 20:29

Not sure if they will others later or not. I have met the Gith lady fighter, Gale the Mage, Astorian the Rogue, Wyll the Warlock, Shadowheart the Cleric.

Never played a Drow before. Trying a Seldarion (sp?) considering how much of the under-dark is involved in the game.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/…b4a73d9b_k.jpg

gabrielarantest October 11th, 2020 20:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakichop (Post 1061617607)
Anyone find a way to delay your characters turn so they pass and then attack at the end of the initiative queue?

I don't think that is possible right now. But it would be nice if Larian implements it.

gabrielarantest October 11th, 2020 20:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark (Post 1061617610)
Not sure if they will others later or not. I have met the Gith lady fighter, Gale the Mage, Astorian the Rogue, Wyll the Warlock, Shadowheart the Cleric.

Never played a Drow before. Trying a Seldarion (sp?) considering how much of the under-dark is involved in the game.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/…b4a73d9b_k.jpg

Another companion (from a different class) will eventually join your camp. But you will not be able to play with him.

Pladio October 11th, 2020 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakichop (Post 1061617607)
Anyone find a way to delay your characters turn so they pass and then attack at the end of the initiative queue?

I don't think that's an option or I haven't found it

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

Morrandir October 12th, 2020 00:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDR13 (Post 1061617602)
The companion's alignments aren't a big deal to me as long as they're not constantly thrown in my face. Not being able to change party members after the first chapter though is a huge letdown.

Agreed on both.
I still don't understand that decision. Saving ressources cannot be a major issue. As every companion can follow you in the later chapters, they need to create content for all of them.
This must be some sort of design decision where every companion after is given a certain role that needs to be filled.
I also think that replayability is a factor. Which isn't interesting to me personally.
Whatever the reason I think it's a major mistake. Or at least a decision that prevents creating a game in the spritit of the predecessors.

wolfgrimdark October 12th, 2020 01:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabrielarantest (Post 1061617612)
Another companion (from a different class) will eventually join your camp. But you will not be able to play with him.

The ones I know about like that are:

Spoiler


There is a lot of content in act 1!

JFarrell71 October 12th, 2020 03:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrandir (Post 1061617638)
Agreed on both.
I still don't understand that decision. Saving ressources cannot be a major issue. As every companion can follow you in the later chapters, they need to create content for all of them.

And they still would, so that doesn't make sense. It wouldn't reduce the amount of any content any, it would just lock the player into seeing a discrete portion of that content.

JDR13 October 12th, 2020 04:09

Locking a portion of the content in any given playthrough isn't a big deal. That's fairly insignificant imo. What's not insignificant, as others have already pointed out, is locking the party composition after the first chapter/area.

I don't think I'd have a problem with it if it was, say, at the start of the final area or something like that. To do it that early in the game though was a curious choice. I'm still hoping that maybe they'll have a change of heart about it before the game is finished.

gabrielarantest October 12th, 2020 06:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark (Post 1061617640)
The ones I know about like that are:

Spoiler


There is a lot of content in act 1!

No, I am talking about
Spoiler – Show Spoiler

sakichop October 12th, 2020 07:42

The more I play this game the more I want to play this game. I'm actually going to cut my work day short tomorrow to get back to it. That's something I just don't typically do.

For the comparisons to DOS games for me this game is head and shoulders above them. Obviously that's subjective so YMMV. There's not any one glaring thing I could point to to say why this is better It's a bunch of small improvements that add up to a whole.

I like the strory better.

Combat is better. Just not having the physical/magic armor from DOS2 and greatly reducing the elemental stuff is a huge improvement alone imo. Not to mention it's based on D&D now. Gone is weird stuff like alligators teleporting, casting spells and turning the battlefield in to elemental soup. At least so far. fingers crossed.

The tone suits me more. Gone is the almost slapstick humor and the darker feel of the graphics is nice. There's still some funny 1 liners here or there though which I liked.

The more dragon age like presentation also appeals to me.

Maybe my favorite thing though are the skill check dice rolls. It's been a long time since I've played P&P D&D but I 'd forgotten how much I enjoy letting the dice roll determine my fate. They really make a huge difference too. Pass a skill check and you could have a temporary companion make an area much easier or fail one and never find a secret treasure or have a peaceful conversation turn in to a fight for your life. I really enjoy this sort of thing but I'm sure it will be very controversial. People missing treasure or content, making enemies or getting their party wiped because of a single dice roll won't appeal to everyone. I suppose this is why there's save scumming I on the other hand will live with the consequences of the dice.

These things are obviously my opinions and I'm in no way saying that it makes this game objectively better just better for me.

As for the companion locking thing, If that's the case it will be a very easy choice for me as I really don't care for 2 of the companions.

Imo, the worst thing about this game is that I can't play it all right now.:)

Couchpotato October 12th, 2020 08:25

Funny enough the dice rolls are actually based on stats/skill checks.
Quote:

"We wanted to make the dice central, because that's what it is in the tabletop," Vincke says. "We didn't want to hide it, but at the same time we didn't want to scare people with it either. So we had to come up with a system that was going to allow you to do all those passive skill checks. They're happening all the time, these checks, and we have to visualize them in a way you can understand. But also active rolls—in general they advertise there's going to be a permutation here that you can choose between."
Basically instead of seeing a percentage or having the option greyed out you see the dice roll. So nothing revolutionary. It's a nice add-on for tabletop lovers though.

Also it's a better solution than DOS's insane rock-paper-scissors.

largh October 12th, 2020 10:55

I also liked the EA build as other commenters here. Yet, I feel that the game is a D:OS3 at the moment rather than BG3, mostly because of the bright colors. Introducing day/night cycle and making the color scale & feeling more grim would do wonders to this game.

I posted my suggestion to Larian forums: http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads….&Number=690344

Please go and pump it up if you agree.

largh October 12th, 2020 12:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakichop (Post 1061617607)
Anyone find a way to delay your characters turn so they pass and then attack at the end of the initiative queue?

If you mean to change the order of characters that have actions after each other, you can do this by clicking the portraits. If you mean some kind of "anticipate opening" type of thing, I agree this would be nice adding tactical depth (if D&D rules allow it).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkadia7 (Post 1061617570)
That does suck re: stuck with the same party characters after the first chapter. I also don't like what I'm reading about the available party characters, it sounds like most of them are evil and hateful in terms of their attitudes…yuck. Why would I want to be forced to play with evil and loathsome characters in my party. What if I want to play a good aligned, cheerful and likable party of characters, guess I'm out of luck!

I get there will probably be more added characters available at some point, and perhaps some will actually be likable and good alignment, but it appears Larian decided to go "super-dark and grim" in the story line, and everyone is evil and the world is just in such a hateful state. They might have gone way overboard in this angle, sounds like. Oh boy, I also am starting to lose much of my interest in the game.

To me, the opening was not grim and dark enough. It could definitely be improved by making things happen at the night instead of the day. I also felt that they had handled the black-and-white D&D alignment concept well in the EA build. To me, the early D&D alignment system reflected mostly American culture and Christian morality - both of which are unfamiliar in the world I live. The real world is more greyshaded than just good, neutral or evil. I always disliked that in D&D games and liked how Larian had handled the issue. The companions are not psychopaths. Rather just selfish and distressed - or assholes in other words. There are hints that you'll learn the motives of the characters when the story unfolds. Maybe you'll learn to like them. There is a fair amount of "personality coloring" typical for Larian games. The NPCs are overboard in their personality. Sometimes that annoys me…

Arkadia7 October 12th, 2020 14:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by largh (Post 1061617655)
If you mean to change the order of characters that have actions after each other, you can do this by clicking the portraits. If you mean some kind of "anticipate opening" type of thing, I agree this would be nice adding tactical depth (if D&D rules allow it).



To me, the opening was not grim and dark enough. It could definitely be improved by making things happen at the night instead of the day. I also felt that they had handled the black-and-white D&D alignment concept well in the EA build. To me, the early D&D alignment system reflected mostly American culture and Christian morality - both of which are unfamiliar in the world I live. The real world is more greyshaded than just good, neutral or evil. I always disliked that in D&D games and liked how Larian had handled the issue. The companions are not psychopaths. Rather just selfish and distressed - or assholes in other words. There are hints that you'll learn the motives of the characters when the story unfolds. Maybe you'll learn to like them. There is a fair amount of "personality coloring" typical for Larian games. The NPCs are overboard in their personality. Sometimes that annoys me…

They of course should have a way to delay your individual party members turn as an option in combat, previous DOS games had this. It adds richness and more depth to the combat.

I am wondering if the D&D license is limiting the game combat options because they have to comply with 5E rules and mechanics. If so, that is a shame. Tabletop rules should not take precedence over a computer rpg experience, IMHO. The rules should be bended, heavily modified, or even gotten rid of if its better for the crpg game experience.

Moving on - I do not like putting alignment on the back burner, if this is what the 5E has done either. Alignment was always a central focus and flavor of D&D. I want more alignment focus and implementation in D&D rpgs, not less.

I'm afraid the more I hear about 5E, the less I like it, which may be why I am losing interest in BG III, because apparently it is heavily based on abiding by 5E rules.

Morrandir October 12th, 2020 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arkadia7 (Post 1061617657)
I am wondering if the D&D license is limiting the game combat options because they have to comply with 5E rules and mechanics. If so, that is a shame. Tabletop rules should not take precedence over a computer rpg experience, IMHO. The rules should be bended, heavily modified, or even gotten rid of if its better for the crpg game experience.

I would be surprised if WotC was dogmamtic regarding the application of DnD rules. They know well enough that you need to adapt for a CRPG.
In fact it's an unwritten (and sometimes even written) rule in tabletop RPG that your group shall agree on and use house rules to increase fun.

Arkadia7 October 12th, 2020 16:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Morrandir (Post 1061617663)
I would be surprised if WotC was dogmamtic regarding the application of DnD rules. They know well enough that you need to adapt for a CRPG.
In fact it's an unwritten (and sometimes even written) rule in tabletop RPG that your group shall agree on and use house rules to increase fun.

I dunno, but dull combat is said to be an issue in the game, and those who are complaining are saying its largely because of strict adherence to 5E rules.

I am not sure but it might be Wizards of the Coast are strict about this because they want to promote their 5E rules edition. I do not like WOTC and wish the D&D license was in different hands. I won't go into this further, as it can drift into the political realm, but they are a bad company, IMHO.

Ripper October 12th, 2020 16:58

I seem to remember Sven talking early on about how the game would be based on 5E, but not strictly adhering to it. So I'd say they have some leeway.

sakichop October 12th, 2020 17:14

Doing a quick search it seems delay an action is out in 5e. According to what I’ve read they got rid of it due to taking too much in game time for not enough gain. That’s for P&P though. I’d argue that it could be a big gain and that with a computer doing all the calculations it wont take any noticeable additional time.

They do have ready an action which is much like an if then statement. If X happens do Y. To me ( not being a programmer) I would think ready an action in a CRPG would be much harder to implement do to the shear amount of possibilities. You wouldn’t be able to account for them all.

Hopefully Larian can take some liberties and put in delay an action.


Quote:

Originally Posted by largh (Post 1061617655)
If you mean to change the order of characters that have actions after each other, you can do this by clicking the portraits. If you mean some kind of "anticipate opening" type of thing, I agree this would be nice adding tactical depth (if D&D rules allow it).

Just saw this, i will try it out. Thanks.

Andrew23 October 12th, 2020 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sakichop (Post 1061617649)
The more I play this game the more I want to play this game. I'm actually going to cut my work day short tomorrow to get back to it. That's something I just don't typically do.

Good to hear so positive feedback. And there is still how much development time ahead? One year? This has to be good (fingers crossed). I really want to like this game, when its released.


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