General News - Denuvo DRM on the Rise

GothicGothicness said:
Well, let me just say I love GOG, what they are doing is great. As most people here know I also really really really dislike EA. But still I can see the need for something like Denuvo to prevent pirating of games, and it happens to be one of the first DRM who is reasonably friendly compared to root kits and viruses and lockers and whatever else they tried. So I don't know why people are complaining about it so much, probably it is mostly people misunderstanding what it is, or in some cases people who are angry because they can't pirate a game.
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Please stop the attacks on my and other forum posters' personal motivations (as per this and your prior posting). No one needs to justify to you why they refuse to allow installation of undocumented and potentially dangerous software on their computers. For your edification I make it a habit not to allow installation of potentially unwanted, and potentially dangerous software on my computer by any enterprise. I'm sure many others here follow the same policy.

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RPGFool said:
Please stop the attacks on my and other forum posters' personal motivations (as per this and your prior posting). No one needs to justify to you why they refuse to allow installation of undocumented and potentially dangerous software on their computers. For your edification I make it a habit not to allow installation of potentially unwanted, and potentially dangerous software on my computer by any enterprise. I'm sure many others here follow the same policy.

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It is your computer and no one is forcing you to install anything on it.

But you have to be prepared to defend your case if you bash a lot on something, and most of that bashing appears to be based on misunderstandings. Denuvo is a lot more documented on the web than a lot of other things.

For example if you run windows, it is also potentially unwanted, potentially dangerous and undocumented by your standards.

If you only run open source software with detailed documentation of which you've read the source files yourself to ensure it is not potentially unwanted and potentially dangerous, than sure I understand, but I think that is being a bit too much paranoid. I could understand people complaining about always online DRM, Securom, Sony rootkit or whatever else, each of them are quite horrible. Now they found one solution which doesn't install any rootkit, don't require always online, don't prevent you from playing if you have a scratched disk or certain CD Burner software installed or whatever, and people are still complaining. Besides why would Denuvo want to do something "dangerous and unwanted" to you, their business is to protect a game exe from being tampared with and I don't think that is dangerous, and it could only be "unwanted" if you wanted to tamper with that exe file.

Now if you don't trust EA because they lied to you before, well I totally understand you, but in that case you shouldn't play their games either, who knows what horrors they might pack into Origin or their exe file or Microtransactions or whatever... now that is something to worry about, Denuvo not.
 
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Ripper said:
What I would say, is that if I were creating a computer program of any sort, and my main concern were to ensure it ran as well and reliably as possible for my customers, I sure as hell wouldn't introduce an arbitrary and extremely complex process that complicated the code with all sorts of arcane encryption tasks.

That is the key point for me - I can't know how badly the DRM is affecting my game, and in what ways, but it certainly isn't improving it for me, and it's running code that treats me as an untrusted party on my own computer. I don't much care for that, and I support CDPR and GOG all the way.
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GothicGothicness said:
It is your computer and no one is forcing you to install anything on it.

But you have to be prepared to defend your case if you bash a lot on something, and most of that bashing appears to be based on misunderstandings. Denuvo is a lot more documented on the web than a lot of other things.

For example if you run windows, it is also potentially unwanted, potentially dangerous and undocumented by your standards.

If you only run open source software with detailed documentation of which you've read the source files yourself to ensure it is not potentially unwanted and potentially dangerous, than sure I understand, but I think that is being a bit too much paranoid. I could understand people complaining about always online DRM, Securom, Sony rootkit or whatever else, each of them are quite horrible. Now they found one solution which doesn't install any rootkit, don't require always online, don't prevent you from playing if you have a scratched disk or certain CD Burner software installed or whatever, and people are still complaining. Besides why would Denuvo want to do something "dangerous and unwanted" to you, their business is to protect a game exe from being tampared with and I don't think that is dangerous, and it could only be "unwanted" if you wanted to tamper with that exe file.

Now if you don't trust EA because they lied to you before, well I totally understand you, but in that case you shouldn't play their games either, who knows what horrors they might pack into Origin or their exe file or Microtransactions or whatever… now that is something to worry about, Denuvo not.
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Your personal attacks alleging I support cracking groups, and that people here are angry because they cannot pirate games, do not belong here. Period.

Microsoft goes to great lengths to document the software they install on my system. They also allow me to opt out of software installation and data gathering.

Denuvo isn't in the same league as Microsoft.

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Actually no, even with everything disabled some data "leaks" to Microsoft's servers. For unknown purposes.

Except if your win10 is enterprise version. But that version is not free.
 
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Sorry Joxer and archangel you are both wrong.

I'm sure rpgfool and scanned over every line of code in Windows 10 to ensure it is safe and runs optimally on his computer with no wasted cpu cycles.;)
 
joxer said:
Actually no, even with everything disabled some data "leaks" to Microsoft's servers. For unknown purposes.

Except if your win10 is enterprise version. But that version is not free.
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Windows 10 is not perfect but MS does allow opting out even if imperfectly. That's one reason most of us use additional firewalls, antivirus and antispying software. Microsoft is nevertheless light years ahead of denuvo and EA.

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sakichop said:
Sorry Joxer and archangel you are both wrong.

I'm sure rpgfool and scanned over every line of code in Windows 10 to ensure it is safe and runs optimally on his computer with no wasted cpu cycles.;)
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I'll take MS's word over yours any day of the week.

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RPGFool said:
Windows 10 is not perfect but MS does allow opting out even if imperfectly. That's one reason most of us use additional firewalls, antivirus and antispying software. Microsoft is nevertheless light years ahead of denuvo and EA.

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Now you are just like Joxer, you are rationalizing.
 
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Archangel said:
Now you are just like Joxer, you are rationalizing.
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You'd be much better off worrying about your own problems like your erroneous statement that Windows 10 doesn't allow opting out of information gathering.

Fix yourself before fixing others.

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RPGFool said:
Your personal attacks alleging I support cracking groups, and that people here are angry because they cannot pirate games, do not belong here. Period.

Microsoft goes to great lengths to document the software they install on my system. They also allow me to opt out of software installation and data gathering.

Denuvo isn't in the same league as Microsoft.

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Well, if you consider those posts personal attacks, I don't think you have much experience of the internet. Anyhow judging by how defensive and desperate you start getting when your criticism of Denuvo falls one after another, you must feel a very strong personal involvement about this. Why is it that you are so angry that a company protects a few AAA game exe files? What is there to be so upset about, when you see what companies like google, MS, Apple and just about any other company are doing every day which is much worse? Apparently you don't mind defending those companies though, it is hard for me to get what your motivation is.

MS recently automatically installed poorly documented forced windows 10 adware, which causes your HD to work like crazy for 30 minutes on every startup download a lot of data to your machine, run schedule tasks that are very hard to delete. This only because you have automatic security updates installed. You're not allowed to uninstall it either, but have to use some serious hacks to get rid of it. To me this is 100 x worse than anything Denuvo ever did. Yet you defend MS but keep bashing Denuvo, based on false information.
 
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GothicGothicness said:
Well, if you consider those posts personal attacks, I don't think you have much experience of the internet. Anyhow judging by how defensive and desperate you start getting when your criticism of Denuvo falls one after another, you must feel a very strong personal involvement about this. Why is it that you are so angry that a company protects a few AAA game exe files? What is there to be so upset about, when you see what companies like google, MS, Apple and just about any other company are doing every day which is much worse? Apparently you don't mind defending those companies though, it is hard for me to get what your motivation is.

MS recently automatically installed poorly documented forced windows 10 adware, which causes your HD to work like crazy for 30 minutes on every startup download a lot of data to your machine, run schedule tasks that are very hard to delete. This only because you have automatic security updates installed. You're not allowed to uninstall it either, but have to use some serious hacks to get rid of it. To me this is 100 x worse than anything Denuvo ever did. Yet you defend MS but keep bashing Denuvo, based on false information.
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Enough with the personal attacks already.

It is only you who is acting "angry". It is only you who is acting "so upset". And it is only you who is acting "defensive and desperate".

Hope you feel better soon.

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RPGFool said:
Enough with the personal attacks already.

It is only you who is acting "angry". It is only you who is acting "so upset". And it is only you who is acting "defensive and desperate".

Hope you feel better soon.

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I can assure you that I feel very good. I am also a very happy person.Thank you for your concern though.

If you are not upset or angry about Denuvo than all is fine, no need for us to discuss further, and I am sorry that you felt you were being "personally attacked".
 
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Lemme start with: :rolleyes:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/rime/rime-cracked
Not only has Rime been cracked, but the pirates also claim that Denuvo was directly responsible for performance troubles, namely stuttering. According to them, the anti-tamper tech is constantly sending signals to check if the game is legit, impacting performance.
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https://torrentfreak.com/new-control-denuvo-piracy-protection-cracked-170602/
“In previous games like Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3, NieR Automata, Prey there were only about 1000 ‘triggers’ called, so we have x300 here.”

But according to the cracker, the 300,000 calls to triggers was a mere “warmup” for Denuvo. After just 30 minutes of gameplay, the count rose to two million, a figure he delivered with shocked expletives.
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“Protection now calls about 10-30 triggers every second during actual gameplay, slowing game down. In previous games like Sniper: Ghost Warrior 3, NieR Automata, Prey there were only about 1-2 ‘triggers’ called every several minutes during gameplay, so do the math.”
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Okay, maybe the new Denuvo version is bugged with this excessive behavior, not saying it was intentional.

There is however something else to conclude from this. As the infromation came from a person who cracked it, not some rumorbased facebook hating wall, it only means that other Denuvo verasions in previous games were not causing performance problems as some people were preaching all over internet. Some even here on forums.

Since it appeared, I wasn't against Denuvo, in fact I thought of it as the best DRM possibility out there so far (yea, the best would be noDRM at all, but since CEOs want to have something it's IMO the least evil one).
However, unless it was a bug and not a deliberate resourceshungry version for whatever reason, the lastest Denuvo should go to hell.
 
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Good on you Joxer -- acknowledging problems that current Denuvo iterations are causing with games. Denuvo's approach apparently has changed and the interference with gameplay is apparently worse than before.

There have indeed been major technical glitches with recent denuvo games I've played -- DX:MD and ME:A. I don't believe the presence of denuvo and the performance issues with those games was merely coincidence. But denuvo interference is hard to prove as it is more or less apparent depending on the power of a gamer's system (cpu, memory, hdd speed).

I believe there's yet another issue with denuvo. Perhaps counter-intuitive -- namely game sales likely actually benefit from some level of piracy. More pirates mean more people playing the game. The so-called pirates are invariably computer literate and active on the internet and are probably more active than most in game forums and the like. Essentially pirates can promote games.

Game companies spend tens and tens of millions on game promotion. Pirate-game-promotion comes with no out of pocket cost. Actual cost, in terms of 'lost sales' is speculative at best; since the evidence to date suggests that stopping piracy via denuvo doesn't increase game sales to any substantial degree.

All of this is controversial. But take some outrageous assumptions; say three million pirates promote a half million increase in sales due to increased game discussions and publicity as a result of those pirates…

Consider it a giveaway promotion. Prime the pump. Cost to game company is relatively low or even essentially nothing compared to traditional advertising expenses.

Consider the apparently poor sales of DX:MD and ME:A (both used denuvo -- both cracked but only after a period of no piracy). Is it possible that zero piracy actually hurt sales as a result of fewer gamers, fewer forum discussions, etc? Now add more technical game glitches to that.

That's it from me. Thanks for reading.

Best regards.

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