SPOILERS from endgame!
Time for more fun with The Witcher? Need you ask or put another way the moderators are still letting me start posts, suckers!
So, what's up next, if you guessed Clones and Time Travel give yourself a .
That's right did you know Alvin is a Time Traveling Clone? No? No? Well then you aren't paying attention as this is one of the biggest topics of discussion on the official forums, with at least 5 threads some reaching up to 17 pages and some of these from people who have read the books.
First lets start with the who and what of things, this gives us Alvin escaping/teleporting/time traveling, depending on your position in chapter 4 and the GM appearing in chapter 5 to save Geralt to payback a debt of Geralt saving him.
Second we have the GM projecting himself into Geralt's mind, reading his thoughts, trying to take control and creating a possible vision of the future based on the prophecy OR bringing Geralt's conscious and subconscious into his mind, while reading it, creating the possible future vision based on the prophecy, IN either case Geralt can die for real in the game.
Third we have the GM dying with a Dimeritium Amulet Geralt gave Alvin or one like it, again depending on your position and Geralt mentioning he could have been known by another name.
To get this going I will post an excerpt from a reader of the books and Time Travel proponent, hopefully we can figure out what's going on.
This is a long post and can be confusing if you don't follow Time Travel but it's 3 different possible timelines, so don't think it's all one explanation, just in case you are half awake as I am most of the time.
This seems well thought out and well written, does most everyone agree with Conn?
Time for more fun with The Witcher? Need you ask or put another way the moderators are still letting me start posts, suckers!
So, what's up next, if you guessed Clones and Time Travel give yourself a .
That's right did you know Alvin is a Time Traveling Clone? No? No? Well then you aren't paying attention as this is one of the biggest topics of discussion on the official forums, with at least 5 threads some reaching up to 17 pages and some of these from people who have read the books.
First lets start with the who and what of things, this gives us Alvin escaping/teleporting/time traveling, depending on your position in chapter 4 and the GM appearing in chapter 5 to save Geralt to payback a debt of Geralt saving him.
Second we have the GM projecting himself into Geralt's mind, reading his thoughts, trying to take control and creating a possible vision of the future based on the prophecy OR bringing Geralt's conscious and subconscious into his mind, while reading it, creating the possible future vision based on the prophecy, IN either case Geralt can die for real in the game.
Third we have the GM dying with a Dimeritium Amulet Geralt gave Alvin or one like it, again depending on your position and Geralt mentioning he could have been known by another name.
To get this going I will post an excerpt from a reader of the books and Time Travel proponent, hopefully we can figure out what's going on.
This is a long post and can be confusing if you don't follow Time Travel but it's 3 different possible timelines, so don't think it's all one explanation, just in case you are half awake as I am most of the time.
This was posted by Conn.
The following is just a theory but shows a possible way to time travel and get the actual story we see in the game. I've only taking information everyone can obtain from books and conversations during the game, concerning the Order, Geralt's death, Dimeritium properties and the magic, sources can still use despite of the necklace. The Professor has a document issuing the capture of Alvin, see below for list. Other things are simply educated guesses but fit with the overal story, I'm assuming Geralt was supposed to be and stay dead in the original first time line and of course that Alvin = Jacques. The King of the Wild Hunt is not affected by the flow of time but sits outside time and can thus influence the time line and maybe set things right.
Timeline 1 Enter Alvin
Pre Prologue
Alvin gets born -> Great War ends -> Geralt dies
Chapter 1
Guards save Alvin from the beast -> Alvin at Order of the White Rose church
Chapter 3
Alvin gets into vizima either by teleporting or via the order -> Triss and Shani fight over Alvin, Alvin teleports away from victor (probably Triss)
Chapter 4
Alvin at Alina's -> Gets Dimeritium Necklace from Dandelion -> Teleports to the past during the big fight between Order and Scoia'tael
Timeline 2 Enter Jacques
Pre Prologue
Alvin Arrives 30-40 years before he's born -> Alvin gets taken care of by the Order of the White Rose -> Alvin changes names to Jacques de Aldersberg, either being given or choosing it himself -> Alvin gets born -> Great War ends -> Geralt dies -> Jacques takes over the dwindling Order during the conference Jacques has a White Rose in his hands that catches fire, thus the Order of the Flaming Rose gets born -> The Order gains influence, jacques employs Salamandra
Prologue
Salamandra attacks Kaer Morhen and obtains everything they want
Chapter 1
Guards save Alvin from the beast -> Alvin at Order of the Flaming Rose church -> Jacques has issued an order on his own capture (The Professor has a document issuing the capture of Alvin) -> Flaming church priest hands Alvin over to Salamandra, Alvin probably teleports away
Chapter 3
Alvin either teleports into Vizima or is brought in by the Order -> Triss and Shani fight over Alvin, Alvin teleports away from victor (probably Triss)
Chapter 4
Alvin at Alina's -> Gets Dimeritium Necklace from Dandelion -> Teleports to the past during the big fight between Order and Scoia'tael
Post Epilogue
Jacques who now doesn't have to worry about a paradox changes Mankind
Timeline 3 Enter Geralt
Pre Prologue
Alvin Arrives 30-40 years before he's born -> Alvin gets taken care of by the Order of the White Rose -> Alvin changes names to Jacques de Aldersberg, either being given or choosing it himself -> Alvin gets born -> Great War ends -> Geralt dies -> Jacques takes over the dwindling Order during the conference Jacques has a White Rose in his hands that catches fire, thus the Order of the Flaming Rose gets born -> The Order gains influence, jacques employs Salamandra -> Geralt is brought back by the the King of the Wild Hunt a few days before Salamadra attacks
Prologue
Salamandra attacks Kaer Morhen, with the help of Geralt the Witchers can prevent Salamandra from taking everything
Chapter 1
Geralt saves Alvin from the beast -> Alvin at Order of the Flaming Rose church -> Jacques has issued an order on his own capture (The Professor has a document issueing the capture of Alvin) -> Flaming church priest hands Alvin over to Salamandra but Geralt saves Alvin
Chapter 3
Alvin teleports into Vizima -> Triss and Shani fight over Alvin, Geralt is used as a pawn to make the decision
Chapter 4
Alvin at Alina's -> Gets Dimeritium Necklace from Geralt -> Geralt teaches Alvin things -> Teleports to the past during the big fight between Order and Scoia'tael
Epilogue
Jacques who now doesn't have to worry about a paradox tries to change mankind but is stopped by Geralt
The world in all 3 time lines in the 5 years between the end of the Great War is for the most part the same. The Beast no doubt still haunts the village, maybe in a lesser or maybe in a stronger form. Geralt had nothing to do with the appearance of it. The Scoia'tael is on the warpath in all three. In the first one they have an advantage, The White Rose is weak compared to the Flaming Rose and less of a match to the Scoia'tael. The Second timeline the Flaming Rose kicks the crap out of the Scoia'tael. The last time line it is more evenly matched due to Geralt interference. Most other world affairs are of no consequence to the story, with the exception of the disease going through the Northern Kingdoms and thus the quarantine of Vizima.
About Geralt's return, if Geralt had been returned either earlier or later in the time line, he probably would have been either to weak or left Kaer Morhen before the attack to regain his memory. If his memory hadn't been wiped he probably would have gone in search of Yennefer. Just imagine the King of the Wild Hunt using a trial and error system to get him back at the perfect moment to stop Jacques
Info taking from game
Journal: Glossary
Catriona: The disease the ravaged through the Northern Countries
Dimeritium: Talks about the effects on magic users
Magic: Magic and how strong Sources can still use magic even when being shielded by a dimeritium necklace, also mentions time travel and stress related teleportation
Books:
Shadow People: Talks about the Redenia Intelligence silently helping the Other of the Flaming Rose because they are an opposing force to the Lodge of Sorceresses and can help stop Nilfgaard if needed
The Flower and the Flame: The story of Jacques ascendancy to Grand Master
The Rivian Pogrom: The Story of Geralt's death
Notes:
Letter from Triss: Talks about Alvin's disappearance from her house and the dimeritium necklace she gave to Dandelion (Shani sent a similar letter)
The Professor's draft letter: Talks about the capture of Alvin. The way the letter is written it is clear The Professor doesn't know the reason of him having to capture Alvin. Azar's knowledge of Alvin's true purpose is unknown.
The following is just a theory but shows a possible way to time travel and get the actual story we see in the game. I've only taking information everyone can obtain from books and conversations during the game, concerning the Order, Geralt's death, Dimeritium properties and the magic, sources can still use despite of the necklace. The Professor has a document issuing the capture of Alvin, see below for list. Other things are simply educated guesses but fit with the overal story, I'm assuming Geralt was supposed to be and stay dead in the original first time line and of course that Alvin = Jacques. The King of the Wild Hunt is not affected by the flow of time but sits outside time and can thus influence the time line and maybe set things right.
Timeline 1 Enter Alvin
Pre Prologue
Alvin gets born -> Great War ends -> Geralt dies
Chapter 1
Guards save Alvin from the beast -> Alvin at Order of the White Rose church
Chapter 3
Alvin gets into vizima either by teleporting or via the order -> Triss and Shani fight over Alvin, Alvin teleports away from victor (probably Triss)
Chapter 4
Alvin at Alina's -> Gets Dimeritium Necklace from Dandelion -> Teleports to the past during the big fight between Order and Scoia'tael
Timeline 2 Enter Jacques
Pre Prologue
Alvin Arrives 30-40 years before he's born -> Alvin gets taken care of by the Order of the White Rose -> Alvin changes names to Jacques de Aldersberg, either being given or choosing it himself -> Alvin gets born -> Great War ends -> Geralt dies -> Jacques takes over the dwindling Order during the conference Jacques has a White Rose in his hands that catches fire, thus the Order of the Flaming Rose gets born -> The Order gains influence, jacques employs Salamandra
Prologue
Salamandra attacks Kaer Morhen and obtains everything they want
Chapter 1
Guards save Alvin from the beast -> Alvin at Order of the Flaming Rose church -> Jacques has issued an order on his own capture (The Professor has a document issuing the capture of Alvin) -> Flaming church priest hands Alvin over to Salamandra, Alvin probably teleports away
Chapter 3
Alvin either teleports into Vizima or is brought in by the Order -> Triss and Shani fight over Alvin, Alvin teleports away from victor (probably Triss)
Chapter 4
Alvin at Alina's -> Gets Dimeritium Necklace from Dandelion -> Teleports to the past during the big fight between Order and Scoia'tael
Post Epilogue
Jacques who now doesn't have to worry about a paradox changes Mankind
Timeline 3 Enter Geralt
Pre Prologue
Alvin Arrives 30-40 years before he's born -> Alvin gets taken care of by the Order of the White Rose -> Alvin changes names to Jacques de Aldersberg, either being given or choosing it himself -> Alvin gets born -> Great War ends -> Geralt dies -> Jacques takes over the dwindling Order during the conference Jacques has a White Rose in his hands that catches fire, thus the Order of the Flaming Rose gets born -> The Order gains influence, jacques employs Salamandra -> Geralt is brought back by the the King of the Wild Hunt a few days before Salamadra attacks
Prologue
Salamandra attacks Kaer Morhen, with the help of Geralt the Witchers can prevent Salamandra from taking everything
Chapter 1
Geralt saves Alvin from the beast -> Alvin at Order of the Flaming Rose church -> Jacques has issued an order on his own capture (The Professor has a document issueing the capture of Alvin) -> Flaming church priest hands Alvin over to Salamandra but Geralt saves Alvin
Chapter 3
Alvin teleports into Vizima -> Triss and Shani fight over Alvin, Geralt is used as a pawn to make the decision
Chapter 4
Alvin at Alina's -> Gets Dimeritium Necklace from Geralt -> Geralt teaches Alvin things -> Teleports to the past during the big fight between Order and Scoia'tael
Epilogue
Jacques who now doesn't have to worry about a paradox tries to change mankind but is stopped by Geralt
The world in all 3 time lines in the 5 years between the end of the Great War is for the most part the same. The Beast no doubt still haunts the village, maybe in a lesser or maybe in a stronger form. Geralt had nothing to do with the appearance of it. The Scoia'tael is on the warpath in all three. In the first one they have an advantage, The White Rose is weak compared to the Flaming Rose and less of a match to the Scoia'tael. The Second timeline the Flaming Rose kicks the crap out of the Scoia'tael. The last time line it is more evenly matched due to Geralt interference. Most other world affairs are of no consequence to the story, with the exception of the disease going through the Northern Kingdoms and thus the quarantine of Vizima.
About Geralt's return, if Geralt had been returned either earlier or later in the time line, he probably would have been either to weak or left Kaer Morhen before the attack to regain his memory. If his memory hadn't been wiped he probably would have gone in search of Yennefer. Just imagine the King of the Wild Hunt using a trial and error system to get him back at the perfect moment to stop Jacques
Info taking from game
Journal: Glossary
Catriona: The disease the ravaged through the Northern Countries
Dimeritium: Talks about the effects on magic users
Magic: Magic and how strong Sources can still use magic even when being shielded by a dimeritium necklace, also mentions time travel and stress related teleportation
Books:
Shadow People: Talks about the Redenia Intelligence silently helping the Other of the Flaming Rose because they are an opposing force to the Lodge of Sorceresses and can help stop Nilfgaard if needed
The Flower and the Flame: The story of Jacques ascendancy to Grand Master
The Rivian Pogrom: The Story of Geralt's death
Notes:
Letter from Triss: Talks about Alvin's disappearance from her house and the dimeritium necklace she gave to Dandelion (Shani sent a similar letter)
The Professor's draft letter: Talks about the capture of Alvin. The way the letter is written it is clear The Professor doesn't know the reason of him having to capture Alvin. Azar's knowledge of Alvin's true purpose is unknown.
This seems well thought out and well written, does most everyone agree with Conn?
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