Well, that's bullshit. If a bigger company were making an avowed DM/MM/Wiz clone then people who like that sort of game would be excited too.
But I should know better than to get involved in yet another DArtagnan spam fest.
Legend of Grimrock - Website, Screens
- Thread starter Dhruin
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But I should know better than to get involved in yet another DArtagnan spam fest.
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DArtagnan
Guest
You asked for it!!!!
In any case, if Bio/Beth announced a Smartphone/PC Dungeon Master clone - I'd be 100% certain it would be a shallow timewaster.
In this case, I'm only 50% certain - so it's not all bad.
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There's a team description there -> http://www.grimrock.net/2011/07/14/the-almost-human-team/
Which mentions game industry credentials.
Dangit, more competition
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DArtagnan
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There's a team description there -> http://www.grimrock.net/2011/07/14/the-almost-human-team/
Which mentions game industry credentials.
Dangit, more competition
Competition?
Also, I read their credentials. None of them seem to have any game design experience.
RampantCoyote
Keeper of the Watch
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Define "Real."
But yes, exactly. Pro indies need to make money to survive. But the question is the size of the audience. It is not worth it for EA to sell wargames or old-school RPGs or graphic adventure games that don't sell even 10,000 copies. But a small indie company - if they scope the game and price it appropriately - can and will make a business case that works out of it. It's only a problem if gamers demand a game with AAA production values for something that cannot possibly sell AAA numbers. That's why indies try to distinguish what they do - it allows the audience to reset their expectations and take the game for what it is, versus what the major publishers' marketing departments say a game should be.
But there are still a lot of sucky indie games out there (I've played many!). "Indie" isn't an excuse there. But there's a difference between quality and high-end production values.
Anybody who has been significantly involved in the dev process for a shipped, real-world commercial title (mainstream, indie, or otherwise) is often going to have more game design experience than any gamer, journalist, critic, or even any graduate from a game design school out there. Now, that doesn't prove they're particularly good at it (the longer I've been at it, the more I know how much I suck at it myself), but I'd not bias my opinion against them because they don't have "designer" next to their name.
In fact, these days I might be biased the opposite way. I've known several outstanding game designers, new and old, but I also know a lot of guys with that job description who really couldn't do anything more than try to emulate their favorite games, with little comprehension about what makes them tick. I don't think they are either in the minority or that their ranks are shrinking.
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RampantCoyote
Keeper of the Watch
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That's my problem, I've been chained to it all day, only let out of my cage for a couple of hours. I estimated a feature that would only take me around 3 hours which has instead taken all day...
I estimated a feature that would only take me around 3 hours which has instead taken all day...- Joined
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DArtagnan
Guest
That's an assumption I'm not prepared to make. Also, there's nothing to suggest I'm "biased against" - simply because I don't automatically assume they understand game design and want to create a strong one. There's zero basis for such an assumption.
I have no way of knowing what their design experience is - except to look at their credentials. Now, by looking at the industry - I see a zillion AAA designers who either can't design worth shit - or don't care about it, or CAN'T care about it.
So, even if they WERE game designers - it wouldn't be much comfort.
I have to see what they intend to do, before I can start to get excited. Again, if they want to finish this within a few months - I doubt we'll get a deep/complex game design. Because such things aren't trivial and they require a passion for the concept of a deep/complex game. For a game that's supposed to be done soon, I think it's pretty worrying when the developers can't answer a single question related to design, and instead say something like "we really don't know, but we do intend to have something good."
That suggests, to me anyway, that they expect the design process to be trivial or non-vital.
Absolutely nothing I've seen from them tells me they want to create a deep or complex game.
They seem to be extremely focused on a game that looks professional and non-indie - which makes a lot of sense. Because a game like this with beautiful graphics is bound to sell like hot-cakes.
Why? I have no idea. But the level of support based on visuals alone is staggering. I find that pretty sad, personally. That's probably because I think the indie segment is ideal for deep and complex games, and that's why I'd hope people would care about that before they started caring about visuals.
Still, I hope I'm wrong - and I hope we get a reasonably deep game. In which case, I'd be more than happy to admit my mistake - and give my support to these guys.
I still read every time I look at the headline "Legend Of Gimmick" ! 
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DArtagnan
Guest
I still read every time I look at the headline "Legend Of Gimmick" !
Heh, well, to be fair - it doesn't come off as a gimmicky game. It comes off as a very competent and polished dungeon crawler, that may or may not have deep gameplay. My money is on shallow hack/slasher - but one can hope
Yes, maybe, but it's so much buried in my mind right now it's hard to get back to the original title again ! :lol: