Shadowrun HK - Impressions Thread

Pladio

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i have started playing SHK and I'm about 8 hours in. I have finished a couple of missions and wanted to share my thoughts.

I am playing as a charismatic Shaman with some good ranged weapons skills. I am trying to play as a relatively good guy in this world (As I usually do).

It seems most missions allow you to do that as you are fighting the megacorps and the evil people who killed your father. So that's fine. In general the game seems more polished than the other two - but maybe that's because I am playing years after it came out.

In essence however, it is the exact same game and could easily have been a new campaign within the original game. The actual gameplay changes are minor other than the matrix now feeling like an arcade game.

Talking about the matrix, I think they should have taken a page from invisible inc and made the matrix into that game. That game is much more intense and it would have fitted much better into what they are trying to portray, especially for what is a tile-based and turnbased game.

My main peeve at the moment is that the game "forces" you to speak to everyone again and again after each mission and they often all have walls of text with no actual gameplay-relevant information. Once in a while a quest pops up, but even if they aren't quests it would have been nice to have some tips on fighting or anything really.

For example, I still remember the hunters in Gothic I telling me how to fight scavengers by trying to get them one at a time.

The walls of texts should be more limited to when it's relevant to the plot, or make them into books found I think.

The main issue I have with the game and the actual RP system is that you are forced to be a shaman or decked if you want to be smart/good at talking.

It forces you to be a certain "class" which is annoying. If I wanted to be a fighter, I cannot be a smart fighter really. And that wouldn't be a problem if the game had many outcomes, but it is a pretty linear game, meaning I am forced to be a shaman if I want many conversation options open to me...

One thing they did well in this iteration that I do not remember from the other ones as much is that your team's skills matter just as much. So by taking Wu with me, I gain a strong character able to open doors when it matters for example. Those options are often blanked out in conversation however, because you can't ask them to act intimidatingly whilst talking to others, which makes sense.

All in all, it looks like I will enjoy it, until I get bored - which is what happened with Dragonfall - unless the game is not too long.

From having had a quick look at a guide, I seem to be about a third or a quarter of the way in, so I might last to the end.

Any thoughts?
 
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i have started playing SHK and I'm about 8 hours in. I have finished a couple of missions and wanted to share my thoughts.

I am playing as a charismatic Shaman with some good ranged weapons skills. I am trying to play as a relatively good guy in this world (As I usually do).

It seems most missions allow you to do that as you are fighting the megacorps and the evil people who killed your father. So that's fine. In general the game seems more polished than the other two - but maybe that's because I am playing years after it came out.

In essence however, it is the exact same game and could easily have been a new campaign within the original game. The actual gameplay changes are minor other than the matrix now feeling like an arcade game.

Talking about the matrix, I think they should have taken a page from invisible inc and made the matrix into that game. That game is much more intense and it would have fitted much better into what they are trying to portray, especially for what is a tile-based and turnbased game.

My main peeve at the moment is that the game "forces" you to speak to everyone again and again after each mission and they often all have walls of text with no actual gameplay-relevant information. Once in a while a quest pops up, but even if they aren't quests it would have been nice to have some tips on fighting or anything really.

For example, I still remember the hunters in Gothic I telling me how to fight scavengers by trying to get them one at a time.

The walls of texts should be more limited to when it's relevant to the plot, or make them into books found I think.

The main issue I have with the game and the actual RP system is that you are forced to be a shaman or decked if you want to be smart/good at talking.

It forces you to be a certain "class" which is annoying. If I wanted to be a fighter, I cannot be a smart fighter really. And that wouldn't be a problem if the game had many outcomes, but it is a pretty linear game, meaning I am forced to be a shaman if I want many conversation options open to me…

One thing they did well in this iteration that I do not remember from the other ones as much is that your team's skills matter just as much. So by taking Wu with me, I gain a strong character able to open doors when it matters for example. Those options are often blanked out in conversation however, because you can't ask them to act intimidatingly whilst talking to others, which makes sense.

All in all, it looks like I will enjoy it, until I get bored - which is what happened with Dragonfall - unless the game is not too long.

From having had a quick look at a guide, I seem to be about a third or a quarter of the way in, so I might last to the end.

Any thoughts?

Well, I've played and completed all the 3 Shadowrun games.

Overall, I found Dragonfall to be the best - mostly because of the story and the characters.

However, I did feel it dragged a little too much because of the amount of combat.

Hong Kong was almost as good, but I didn't care for the story as much. Also, I was pretty sick of the limited engine and formula at that point. But it seemed to me that there was less combat - and I appreciated that a lot.

I don't think really think these games are great or even particularly good. They're just decent little games with the writing being the stand-out feature.

All the gameplay is mediocre at best, if you ask me - and I particularly dislike the Matrix sequences - which are boring, ultra repetitive and drawn out.

The combat isn't much better - but it's not terrible.
 
Great games all three and worthy of replays simply to try out different builds and such. Ya, some of the story is linear and holds the hands a bit much, but still totally worth playing if the Shadowrun World intrigues you. My next play through I plan to do it as a computer buff rather than a melee build.
 
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Yub, mentioned that before.
Shadowrun Hong Kong has far too much text which is completely and utterly irrelevant to the game and the story.
At some point in the game I actually just skimmed through the text and clicked forward. I have never done that before...

Also all Shadowrun Games have the problem that the game is too short to make use of their RPG System. What I mean is that a skill which is as specific as the ones in shadowrun partially are, can only rarely be used in games anyways. But if you make the game short, you might miss the one or two opportunities where you could have used it at all (maybe you even learnt it after you were already past the possibility).

Imho Shadowrun Dragonfall was the best game of the three, and Hong Kong was the worst.

In case anyone wants to check my (german) review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0QyytXe0VI

Google-Translated Transcript:
Hello and welcome to my review and conclusion to Shadowrun Hong Kong, now the third Shadowrun game of Hairbrained Schemes, also funded by kickstarter.

For those who are not yet familiar with the Shadowrun setting, the scenario is set in the near future of the real world, but in 2011 there was the so-called Awakening, with which magic, elves, dwarves, orcs and other fabulous beings flowed into the world are. A few decades later, we are now in a cyberpunk world where corporations and criminal organizations fight for power.

At the beginning of the game we get news from Raymond, Raymond, that he has to tell us something important and asks us to travel to Hong Kong. But when we arrive and meet our brother, Raymond seems to have disappeared. Instead, we find ourselves in a conspiracy that forces us to seek help from a criminal syndicate, for whom we are also carrying out missions as they try to help us find the right father to help us. And then there are the nightmares through which the inhabitants of the slums of Hong Kong are plagued.

The story is the core of the game and also what eats most of the time. In my opinion so much time that the actual game is too short. There are about 15 separate mission cards, some with a few sub-maps, as well as additional floors, and between the missions, we go back to the Heoi District, where we also have our accommodation, buying weapons, implanting implants and joining our mission computer.
Only it is ultimately that the character system, as well as the fight and hacking system are clearly in the background, since we will simply spend the most time with reading.
Personally, I've always read all the texts in most games. Pillars of Eternity was already in my way to exceed the limit of having too much text compared to game content such as fighting, puzzling or exploring in the game. But while in Pillars of Eternity the reading of texts was perhaps a part of 30-50% of the game, it is well over 80% in Shadowrun Hong Kong. The 15 cards each have a game time of 1-2 hours, but you can find in many only a single fight which then only takes 5-10 minutes. The same is true for hacking. If you are back home after the mission, you can start talking about their lives with the almost 10 NPCs and have long dialogues with all 5 crew members so that one would spend 1-3 hours between the missions only with reading, If you really want to read everything. And it is now not as if some dialogues would be clear as flavor. There are dialogues that lead to additional quests, dialogues that lead to additional skill points, and dialogues where, for example, you are asked to take a certain companion on a mission. So you do not get really drumming around absolutely everything, which I found overall annoying.

Often nothing is said in the dialogues, which would have really interested me as a player now. Making dialogues about the background of the crewmembers is one thing, but in very long dialogues the background of an irrelevant trader to fathom came to me simply as a waste of time before. Basically, the game often had serious problems with the dialogues to come to the point and I thought in one place or another: Ok, now have talked about the topic already 10 pages ... how long may it take now until the Bang the bow, and talk about what the next step looks like. Very, very tiring. There are also many decisions you can make in dialogues, certainly more than in many other games. But by the sheer amount of dialogues, there is also much more of the sort, where you can easily choose between four dialog options, which differ only in nuances and have the same influence. By certain abilities you have other ways to solve quests here, but also there is marginal gain. One example would be that one has to pass through a dialogue in one place, has an option through strength, one through a certain etiquette and another through biotech. If you do not have all three, you have to collect an object that is one screen away.
In addition, you also have so many skill points that they are almost completely lost in importance, especially since the battles are not particularly difficult, you can save at any time, and the hacking can always be taken by a group member.

Let's look at the skill system, the fight and the hacking very briefly, even if they are not very relevant and do not give much more time than the loading times:

The character system has received a small interface update since the predecessor, but has otherwise remained the same. There are attributes which then contain abilities, which in turn include abilities. The value of the value can not be exceeded. In order to raise Rifles from 3 to 4, the higher-order value Ranged Combat would first have to be raised to 4, for which a quickness value of 4 is required. And while raising two to three would cost three points, upgrading to 4 would then cost 4 skill points. This ability points are called points in Shadowrun Karma and they are obtained, for example, in dialogues, but mainly through completed missions.
At certain points within the abilities, you also get additional bonuses in addition to the passive bonus, such as special shots in combat.
What is new is that you can now have a little say about how they should develop. While the ability system is not available there, you can select one of two abilities that the character can use from time to time at specific times.

The system is solid and clear, but has little relevance in comparison to systems in other rolling games because there are the skill points in large quantities and you rarely have the impression to make a big difference in the game.
In the fight, there has been little change to the predecessors: on the map, the characters are drawn, which initially have all 2 action points, later automatically 3 action points, which can then be used as desired for movements or actions. So it is possible here for example to shoot for a point first, then to run, and then shoot again. However, some actions, such as firepacks or grenades, require 2 action points and many of the special actions unlocked by skills also have short cooldowns.
Similar to Firaxis Xcom, the flight path of the projectile is not calculated here, but simply looks at how far the target is removed and whether it is directly behind cover or not - however, the angle calculation is much more fluid. So that does not mean the difference of only one degree times the double or triple damage. Basically, a goal can be taken behind coverage, whether high, medium or low also not critical.
Because of the relatively high hitpoints compared to the damage, it is rarely really frustrating, since even with a single attack, little can happen. The most frustrating thing is when the collected team shoots once again. But basically, I would call the fight a fairly solid game element.
And there are also 2-3 battles, which would not be quite trivial on the hardest difficulty, if you could not save at any time anyway.
All in all, these are solid mechanics, which, however, account for perhaps only 10% of the playing time and are not really relevant there because of the challenge.

Let's get to the hacking, which was changed a bit more. If we hack a computer and find ourselves with the avatar in the matrix, we move there in real time and have to scout programs with fixed routes and a viewing radius in real-time evade. Ultimately, this is a skill test, which I personally felt as something wrong at the place. If you are in a fight, for example, if you are seen by the scout programs or battle programs, the game changes into a round mode in which you then as well as in normal combat the opponents by using their own program abilities Must eliminate.
Finally, there are also blockers when chopping, where you have to play another mini-game, if you do not have to take over from the front, the alarm increase. There you have to memorize the numbers and reproduce the numbers, which gives you time. This time can then be used to reconcile a rotating code with suggested codes. If you think you have found the right code, click on it, and if you have chosen correctly, the blocker disappears.
Whenever you fail in hacking a blocker, or if your opponent's programs are not directly extinguished, an alarm will also rise, and if it is full, there will be so many opponents that you have hardly a chance and is wounded from the matrix.
The hacking has in my opinion a skill and thought-play aspect of the just in an otherwise so character-driven game should not have lost much. You have to admit that it actually creates a little hacking atmosphere, but I was not happy with these mechanics. But since the hacking is similar to the game, it is also very interesting for the game, especially since you can do all the hacks with a companion with which everything is quite easy, which is also simplified by the fact that Also here at any time.

In many other roll games, there is still an element of exploring, but the Shadowrun games basically almost completely fails. You will look at the current map once, but it is not now that you could find something in every corner. In addition to NPCs to talk and do, there are usually only a handful of places that the group can look at or interact with. And also Loot of opponents in the game only 2-3 times to a very limited extent. As a rule, you buy the equipment completely from the dealer in the city.

On the technical side, there is not much to mention. The music is quite good, and the graphics look quite nice. But since the cards offer almost no interaction possibilities, it still has a little flatness. The loading times are particularly noticeable. Since it has already taken over 3 minutes to load a score and when I calculate all load times, then the load times have to be almost as a similar game element as the fight and hacking.

Ultimately, the technique is acceptable, there are no bugs, and mechanically the game is on a very good level. The backbone for a good rolling game is therefore quite there. But all this by the sheer volume of the text, as mentioned at the outset, completely falls into the background. There is, however, still a big difference to a game like ICY, which is also strongly text-based, but with which also the mechanisms behind it broken, were not explained and gave little sense. Thus the system gives at least a certain basis, on which one stands and on which one then the dialogues can lead. The text is also well-written and the characters have elaborated profiles, for me personally, which actually already a lot of text coped, was the mass in this game but simply too much. The text is only available in English, since a translation was not profitable. I still appreciate the game with a neutral thumb. Quite clearly, however, is the recommendation: If you have a problem with 30 to 40 hours of playing with 80% of the time texts to read, can calm here. Who long texts but rather averse is, I would advise against the game clearly. And so I say goodbye and hope that the nightmares of Hong Kong will not haul me tonight in the form of bloodthirsty text walls ...
 
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I liked Dragonfall quite a bit. Hong Kong was worth it but somehow it just didn't seem as interesting as Dragonfall. And yeah, the text was... a lot. I was starting to dread speaking with characters because their stories just weren't that interesting to me. Ended up quitting after 34 hours - probably pretty near the end.

I continued playing my dwarven mage from Dragonfall.
 
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I'll be jumping into this some time soon, how much is it different, builds/gameplay wise from previous one?
Went with Decker/Rigger in Dragonfall: strong class, but takes a lot of time/$ to pay off, think mage was better for newcomers.
Combat was solid, best when number of turns play a part in scenarios( stop reinforcements, escape, etc)..still I'd take it over any real time with pause. Feels like it could use more dynamic play between classes though.

As for "forcing the player" into class...(unless they changed things drastically) could not disagree more with that.
Unlike, say Gothic ( where only decision for char building is made right at start of the game: strength, dexterity, mage...so you non stop pump points in main attribute) or Baldur's Gate( where stats have a clear use for only one type of character, while useless for others), system here is very open and you can follow typical archetype or mix playstyles as you wish...mage conjurer, fighter with back up drones, etc. Some of requirements later on could be a bit higher though ( to further reward specialization).

Anyway really enjoyed the setting and "ground" level stories, hope there is more focus on that.
 
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I'll be jumping into this some time soon, how much is it different, builds/gameplay wise from previous one?

Only the Matrix was changed, the rest is like Dragonfall (maybe some more weapons/skills but I didn't keep track).
 
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I'll be jumping into this some time soon, how much is it different, builds/gameplay wise from previous one?
Went with Decker/Rigger in Dragonfall: strong class, but takes a lot of time/$ to pay off, think mage was better for newcomers.
Combat was solid, best when number of turns play a part in scenarios( stop reinforcements, escape, etc)..still I'd take it over any real time with pause. Feels like it could use more dynamic play between classes though.

As for "forcing the player" into class…(unless they changed things drastically) could not disagree more with that.
Unlike, say Gothic ( where only decision for char building is made right at start of the game: strength, dexterity, mage…so you non stop pump points in main attribute) or Baldur's Gate( where stats have a clear use for only one type of character, while useless for others), system here is very open and you can follow typical archetype or mix playstyles as you wish…mage conjurer, fighter with back up drones, etc. Some of requirements later on could be a bit higher though ( to further reward specialization).

Anyway really enjoyed the setting and "ground" level stories, hope there is more focus on that.

I think HK has the same level of storytelling to Dragonfall but with the length of game between Switch and Dragonfall. That makes it a better game to me than the other two, where I felt DF was dragged out... The main gameplay difference is the matrix, where it has become arcadey.

I am enjoying myself, but I will probably not play a TB game for a while after this :D
(although I keep saying that...)

I think I have another 5-8 hours of gameplay as I have finished the first larger set of main quests apparently and all companion quests (AFAIK).
 
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Well DF did suffer from Bioware syndrome.
Playing through JE now, really feels kind of odd, the way everyone stays put in one small room (How the hell they don't go crazy?) and waits for player interrogation.
Stage 1: Yeah? Look, we have mission to do, so let's keep it professional.
Stage 2: Well, I guess I could tell you a bit about myself, long as we keep it brief.
Stage 3: The Mysterious Past begins to reveal itself.
Stage 4: Full disclosure, if you're nice you get an extra mission/loot/experience points
Stage 5: Player gets laid/Best friends forever!
Overall, it needs more spontaneity, and char development out of player control. Remember Obsidian had a great idea for start of Cass romance in New Vegas.
 
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Well, I finished the main campaign. I actually enjoyed the final boss battle. Although, not terribly difficult, it did stretch my resources for the first time in the game.
I had to use 3/4 of my summons + some in the environment and a few medkits.

I also like that previous decisions in the campaign had an effect on the ending. I won't spoil it here, but some runs include decisions which can change how the final two missions go.

In the end, like I said, it's an enjoyable game for what it is, but I think it could have been better.

I will play through the bonus campaign as well. Apparently that's 5 more missions, so probably another 5-8 hours of gameplay.

I finished the game in 27 hours according to Steam, which is probably relatively accurate (minus an hour or two of leaving the game on here and there).
 
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So which is best then for first run? Fun to play, fairly OP, isn't something already done by companions?
 
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So which is best then for first run? Fun to play, fairly OP, isn't something already done by companions?



I'm not sure. There's each type of companion :
Shaman/Mage, decker, samurai, drone rigger, shooter.

I guess you could do adept or Mage.
Not sure which would be OP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Ok, I'm jumping into this next. If I botch my build, holding Pladio personally responsible! :shakefist:
 
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I played through HK with Adept, it start a bit weak (went full melee), but by the end the last boss was super easy, lol.
 
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Ok, I'm jumping into this next. If I botch my build, holding Pladio personally responsible! :shakefist:

Lol you're the one who said this :
As for "forcing the player" into class…(unless they changed things drastically) could not disagree more with that.

I think most builds are viable, but you do need to specialise a bit, unless you go into the game on easy. I played on Normal and managed most fights without any issues. I probably should have played on Hard to be honest.
 
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Well, I'm into it, just about to do a first mission "run".
But I'm liking it even more than Dragonfall, love the introduction, feels more ground level oriented, whole life-on-the-run-don't-know-how-to-trust, more "cyberpunk".
Map seem better designed, more dynamic, sounds in particular, feels a lot more "alive" than say, static paintings in Pillars or with similar games.
Writing? Can't say, there is some excess, but it is of same quality, if not better, it feels more "personal" than ton of dry descriptives, like in some games.
Can't really see complaints, unless it takes a dive later on.
Good to see some eastern rpgs, refreshing setting, first Jade Empire, now this, seems they're making a come back. ;)
 
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Love the dialogue here, they could def trim some metaphors, but ( lot of times) it does what most rpgs fail at:Interaction (instead of interrogation).
Npc's will remember what you say, and your responses will be different, feels much more two-sided, and more natural, less stilted by rpg restrictions( Good/Evil/PoE types, etc). They also stepped up on etiquettes it seems.
 
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Love the dialogue here, they could def trim some metaphors, but ( lot of times) it does what most rpgs fail at:Interaction (instead of interrogation).
Npc's will remember what you say, and your responses will be different, feels much more two-sided, and more natural, less stilted by rpg restrictions( Good/Evil/PoE types, etc). They also stepped up on etiquettes it seems.

Yes, the dialogues don't seem forced, but some of them can be quite more of monologues than dialogues :D

I still think they should have simply worked on the main game and created campaigns there or expanded the main one. I feel like they wasted too much time upgrading their engine/assets/matrix instead of creating quality games.
 
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