Pillars of Eternity II - Announced and on Fig

I also jumped in at the $99 point, for all digital. I haven't finished the original Pillars, but liked it quite a bit, and just want to see more of these types of games.

I just like the cheap pre-order.

Ripper said:

Yes, but to me it's more a question of where such generosity should be directed. A fundraiser for a struggling indie like Copper Dreams, that barely made it, would make a lot more sense to me. To have a contest to see who can hand over the most cash to a project that is going to be profitable anyway (and which will very likely involve other major investors and a publisher), just doesn't sit well with me. I've harped on about this before, but I always seem to find myself out on a limb on this one.

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I hear that, to an extent. The thing is, nobody knows Copper Dreams (unfortunately), and not many people are just going to jump into something they don't know. Pillars is better known, has a fan-base, a known quantity, etc.. So they are going to get more excited fans ready to throw a bunch of money at it.

As much as I'd love to see games like Serpents in the Staglands, Lords of Xulima, Copper Dreams and many other Kickstarter games gain big traction and makes lots of money, you are also dealing with the reality of the world basically. Kickstarter was promised to be a means to fund these little projects, and some little games do get funded, but it basically turned into a mid-level AA grounds to make a million or two, generate hype, get traction on social media and get the community involved. That may be a bit pessimistic but it is what it is. At the end of the day it really comes down again to marketing, hype and the usual things that sell units. IMO, of course.

That's a good point Fluent, but the biggest winners in the RPG Kickstarter game, like Hairbrained Schemes, Larian, Obsidian, and InExile were on the verge of bankruptcy or not making the kinds of games they (or we) wanted them to. A failed Kickstarter doomed Gas Powered Games into bankruptcy too. So if at least 4 midtier gaming companies can put out turn based or rtwp rpgs, I'd still say that's a very good things. And we've still got a number of good indie games which came out of crowdfunding like Lords of Xulima, Expeditions:Conquistidors, Paper Sorcerer, and Legends of Eisenwald. Some of those games are even getting sequels, so I'm still cheering on crowdfunding.

forgottenlor said:

That's a good point Fluent, but the biggest winners in the RPG Kickstarter game, like Hairbrained Schemes, Larian, Obsidian, and InExile were on the verge of bankruptcy or not making the kinds of games they (or we) wanted them to. A failed Kickstarter doomed Gas Powered Games into bankruptcy too. So if at least 4 midtier gaming companies can put out turn based or rtwp rpgs, I'd still say that's a very good things. And we've still got a number of good indie games which came out of crowdfunding like Lords of Xulima, Expeditions:Conquistidors, Paper Sorcerer, and Legends of Eisenwald. Some of those games are even getting sequels, so I'm still cheering on crowdfunding.

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Oh, I am, too. I think it's great and has led to numerous games we wouldn't have gotten otherwise. I guess there are some winners besides the big ones as you said. I just look at something like Lords of Xulima which got a very low dollar amount compared to the big ones, but at least it was made, so that is a good thing.

......

I pledged the minimum $29-$5 for my 'PoE' backer status. My days of pledging a lot of money for KS or similar games are done. I'll rely on the high rollers to pull in the big bucks ;-)

exsiccation said:

Because it helps developers avoid financial dependence on publishers and keeps proving there is a market. Do you want a repeat of the dark days of the 2000s where RPGs barely even existed, or when they did were watered down FPS games? Anything to help real RPGs keep getting made is a win.

Obsidian, HBS, Larian and others have proven they can make great games and as a backer of all of them, I definitely want them to keep doing so.

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Well, if you look at what I've said, I'm perfectly in favour of Obsidian using crowd funding, and also for people essentially buying a backer's copy. My argument is that such a project (which Fluent well-describes as "double A") isn't the best candidate for fundraising-style generosity. I think that cash would be better directed to smaller, struggling projects, rather than inflating the profits of a studio that is in a healthy position. I don't see how that is a recipe for a return to the dark days.

beldurax said:

Not going near this one. No way.

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Ditto. I don't want more mediocrity

Is there a Watch fundraiser planned for Pillars 2? We could create a pirate ship together…

Nephologist said:

I think most people aren't pledging large amounts of money out of the goodness of their hearts, but rather for the collectibles and other feelies.

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Dunno about majority but I couldn't care less about collectibles, I'm in because I want a certain game to be made. All projects backed I'd preorder anyway so why not push it's development? Sure they do give some "extras" if you pour some more $, but I see that only as thankyou not as bait to milk some more - depending on how eagerly I want the game to be made, I set the sum to pour into it.

LordCrash said:

Is there a Watch fundraiser planned for Pillars 2? We could create a pirate ship together…

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This would work for me, I don't want to have anything with fig directly.

Ripper said:

Evidently so, but I still find this odd. I doubt many people hand over six times the asking price to a company that they happen to like, in other areas of life.

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Again, I can't speak for others, and my reasons will be well lost on those who see the world differently, but...

On Kickstarter, I have backed over 70 projects; games (video, board, card), books, comics, movies, and more.

On Patreon, I currently back 12 creators; game makers, web comic creators, novel writers, filmmakers.

I like directly supporting the people making things I really like and want to see more of.

Can I persuade you into backing a publisher that moved away from superhero comics and is printing only (near)masterpieces? You have only 1 day though... And it's all digital, it's just first volumes (not a few pages but complete chapters), but hell why not.
https://www.humblebundle.com/books/image-comics-book-bundle

Merin said:

Again, I can't speak for others, and my reasons will be well lost on those who see the world differently, but…

On Kickstarter, I have backed over 70 projects; games (video, board, card), books, comics, movies, and more.

On Patreon, I currently back 12 creators; game makers, web comic creators, novel writers, filmmakers.

I like directly supporting the people making things I really like and want to see more of.

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I think you are still misunderstanding me. As I've said, repeatedly, I'm very much in favour of supporting struggling indies through crowd funding. I also think the Patreon model is excellent for many cases, particularly supporting independent media, and such like.

To put my concern another way, I don't think many of us would donate multiple times the asking price to a AAA production, simply because we like it so much. It doesn't make a great deal of sense to make that a recipient of such generosity - one is not achieving much but inflating their profits, which are already quite adequate. Now, a production like PoE2 falls into a category we might consider "AA". Not a behemoth, but not a struggling indie, either. My point is that, I think they are sufficiently large and successful to make them an unnecessary target for extra financial support; in their position, simply purchasing their products is support enough, and I don't think it is very sensible to direct one's largesse to such a candidate.

Ripper said:

My point is that, I think they are sufficiently large and successful to make them an unnecessary target for extra financial support; in their position, simply purchasing their products is support enough, and I don't think it is very sensible to direct one's largesse to such a candidate.

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Agreed. I was making pretty much the same argument during the WL3 Figstarter. If you loved PoE then by all means back the sequel, but I wouldn't drain your bank account doing so. A few hundred dollars is a lot of money to most people*, but companies like inXile and Obsidian probably regularly spend that on coffee for their staff without batting an eye. A generous contribution like that would mean so much more to a tiny indie studio like Whalenought that doesn't have a lot of revenue pouring in from previous titles. Sure it's arguably a bigger risk and you might not get as much cool swag, but I'd wager it will have a much bigger impact on the development of the actual game.

*Of course if you're wealthy enough that you can drop thousands of bucks on every crowdfunded RPG that piques your interest, then by all means keep funding old school RPGs. I just wish people would give some more love to the little guys. It might be nice to see them grow and have more than a couple of AA RPG developers… Then again, perhaps after a certain point a bigger budget just leads to feature creep, loss of focus, and more filler content.

Well, at least someone agrees with me. I could hear the pitchforks rattling.

Haha. Admittedly, in the case of PoE I'm biased. I didn't like the first game much and never finished it. I don't much care for RtwP combat in general, didn't really like the character building system they created for it and there was just way too many trash encounters. What I saw of the dialogue / non-combat oriented quests was decent, but didn't feel like slogging through the tedious combat and ho hum story for the more interesting but all too infrequent character interactions. I would've preferred something more on the Planescape side of the IE spectrum, rather than the IWD side.

I did back SR:HK for more than I should have because I really loved Dragonfall… and ultimately ended up liking HK, but not nearly as much as DF… But at least I sold the figurines on eBay to recoup some of my contribution.

I actually liked PoE (and certainly Dragonfall), and I want them to succeed. Just, as you say, I'm confident that will happen without anyone digging too deep.