Pillars of Eternity - Thoughts & Impressions

JDR13 said:
That's the first time I've heard that. Did the developers actually state that?
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Yes, though I don't have a quote handy.

How do you feel it compares to default BG or BG2 difficulty-wise?
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I'd say it's pretty close to BG on "Core" rules setting on Hard - but harder because you have to constantly micromanage and compensate for stupidity - like your characters stopping their actions for no reason.

Thing is, the only difference between the 3 difficulty levels in PoE is the amount of enemies you encounter. Nothing else changes. At least according to their website.
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I don't really know the details, but I guess that's possible.
 
The game's difficulty can be set to four difficulty settings: Easy, Normal, Hard, and Path of the Damned. Harder difficulties give you more challenging encounters (adding tactical difficulty by replacing weaker enemies with more powerful types or increasing how many are present in encounters. AI won't change based on level of difficulty)[1] and reduce how many camping supplies players will be able to carry at a given time ( 6 on easy, 4 on normal, and 2 on hard and PotD ), limiting the amount of outdoor resting they can do. On average, players will probably get a small increase in loot, but it's possible to get less in certain circumstances.[2]

Easy - The Easy difficulty requires minimal micromanagement an easily forgives mistakes in combat. It is STRONGLY RECOMMENDED for those who are new or recently-returning to real-time party-based RPGs.
Normal - The Normal difficulty requires strategy and efficiency, but forgives a few mistakes in combat. It is NOT recommended for newcomers to real-time party-based RPGs!
Hard - The Hard difficulty is suited for Infinity Engine veterans who are looking for a challenge. Survival requires micromanagement and optimization of stats through items, spells and abilities.
Path of the Damned - In Path of the Damned difficulty, enemies receive a bonus to most stats and encounters have many more enemies. Warning: this option can't be changed in-game! It is only intended for players who want the most punishing encounters!

It is a spiritual successor to Icewind Dale's Heart of Fury mode. All enemies from all levels of difficulty are enabled and the combat mechanics are amplified to make battles much more brutal for everyone involved.

It's possible to switch between Easy, Normal and Hard during a game in progress, so you can always bump it up or down a notch. 'Path of the Damned' is the only difficulty you have to commit to right from the start.
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source
 
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Thrasher said:
Not having AI is not a flaw for me. AI is crappy even when it's there, so I always micromanage my parties. And I never play these kind of games in coop mode, so the lack of multiplayer is not a flaw, either. I'd prefer turn-based combat, but I wouldn't call the game flawed because of my preferences.
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Custom scripts were a big help in BG and BG2 - and it made the majority of the encounters much less of a hassle, because you only had to micromanage key actions - like spell casting.

I don't know why you'd think of the AI as crappy, unless you expect it to play the game for you.

That's not what I want from custom scripts, I just don't want to tell my ranged guys to stay ranged, my healers to heal the tank - or to tell my fighters to not stop attacking for no good reason. That sort of thing.

It was a part of all the IE games - and it should have been a part of PoE. If you don't like using custom scripts, you could just not use them.

Not having the option is a clear-cut flaw to me - especially when you consider Obsidian publically stating they wanted to have them, but didn't have the time to do them properly.

Obviously, if you don't mind hand-holding every action in every single fight - trivial or not - then it's not a big issue. But there's no getting around the fact that it was an IE feature that the developers wanted in the game, but didn't have time for.
 
I don't mind the lack of custom AI as much as I do the Pong-level pathfinding algorithms. I hope that's one of the things they look at while I step away from the game due to bugs.
 
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It doesn't sound like PoE is meant to be played on Hard for most people on a first playthrough. Certainly not if it's even harder than BG on Core rules setting.
 
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JDR13 said:
It doesn't sound like PoE is meant to be played on Hard for most people on a first playthrough. Certainly not if it's even harder than BG on Core rules setting.
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I started on hard and played it for the first 6-8 hours that way but was finding the combat was very, very hard at times this way. Playing it now on normal and still hard but not to the point where the combat is taken way from the story line.
 
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Dart, most of the stuff you are describing the game does on its own, except when it bugs out. Ranged attackers stay ranged, and melee attackers continue to attack.

I wouldn't call that AI though. AI, to me, describes behavior that changes with time based on input conditions. Continuing to do something doesn't qualify in my eyes.

Now healing a PC when it's health falls below a certain level would be something I'd consider "AI" although it's really basic scripting. Similarly swapping to melee on engagement would be a nice script. As would ranged characters maintaining a distance from enemies. But even then, I find it never ends up the way I want it, and end up micromanaging.

Don't know if I've ever seen any AI be smart enough to run tactical patterns for the whole party that synergize well. Nor deductive reasoning to develop overall battle plans…
 
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Let me give an example of something that I would never hear about or learn about from the gushing "masterpiece" type reviews -- there is no walking toggle in this game. I'm sure most of those raving about the game would say, "So, no big deal? Not even worth mentioning." But to me, that is a big deal. Talk about immersion breaking, running everywhere is just stupid. I always turn on the walk toggle in rpgs I play. Unless a situation calls for me to have to run, like in combat or something specific. I also found out that many kick starter backers were practically begging for a walk toggle for months during the beta, but to no avail. The developers just ignored them. Even though npcs in the game walk around just fine, but I guess the developers couldn't be bothered to fix such an "insignificant" request.
 
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Huh, there is a 'walking' toggle; it's called Slow Mode!!
 
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I've had a thought or two about playing with that big heads mode toggled on... it can be such a pita to figure out who's who in the middle of combat.
 
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Don't know if that would helpeif they are all piled o top of each other.

The zoom helps a huge amount though.

What would help me most is getting a bigger screen. :)
 
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Yes, it would be nice if you could rotate the camera and zoom all the way in.

I get they are trying to be old school but I don't get why we have to have these limitations in 2015.

I've put in a few hours and will probably put in a few more before shelving it for patches and whatever.

My early impressions are mixed. I've only played a fighter and rouge but I didn't feel much difference between the too. I don't have any levels so combat is just knockdown with the fighter followed by crit with the rouge. kinda boring but it's so early I can't really pass judgement.

Haven't read up on the game either, is there flanking? I couldn't tell in the combat log. Do thieves get backstabs randomly or based on positioning or both?

Not sure I'm a big fan off the no xp for combat thing. It seems I fight for nothing and then randomly get xp for just walking around.

Don't like some of their class changes such as the monk. some of the choices they made feel like they were made just for the sake of being different.

I like exploration, the little magnifying glass things, finding walls to climb and the narrative cut scenes with choices.

overall i enjoyed my short time and it seems my main gripe would be the mechanics of the game but it might just be that I don't know the mechanics enough, we"ll see eventually.

Oh, one other thing. Can you run away from combat in this game? the couple times I tried they would get close to me then I'd turn and engage them. It would seem if your losing a fight all you can do is sit there and exchange blows till your dead. Unless I'm missing something?
 
saki, Drink a cup of coffee, put on some headphones and immerse yourself in the experience. Try not to think too hard about what mechanics the game uses and just play and let the game unfold for you. I guarantee you will start to appreciate what they've done a bit more. ;)

And yes, there is flanking in the game. It's an important mechanic that can be tricky to pull off but very useful at times. :)

And I don't think you can run from combat. :(
 
Thrasher said:
Dart, most of the stuff you are describing the game does on its own, except when it bugs out. Ranged attackers stay ranged, and melee attackers continue to attack.
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No, I'm afraid they don't stay ranged. They don't move away when engaged in melee, which they did in BG - if you set them to Ranged AI script. With the default script, they'd switch weapons to melee - which they don't even do in PoE and instead they get interrupted constantly.

As for the problem with stopping attacks - it is that it DOES bug out too frequently.

I wouldn't call that AI though. AI, to me, describes behavior that changes with time based on input conditions. Continuing to do something doesn't qualify in my eyes.
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That's what I'm talking about. Moving away from melee when approached - and having melee characters move towards and engage others instead of standing still when an enemy is defeated.

Now healing a PC when it's health falls below a certain level would be something I'd consider "AI" although it's really basic scripting. Similarly swapping to melee on engagement would be a nice script. As would ranged characters maintaining a distance from enemies. But even then, I find it never ends up the way I want it, and end up micromanaging.
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Well, I'm not saying the scripts in BG are perfect, believe me. I never cared much for IE combat - but with the right script for the right character, MOST fights become a matter of adjusting a few key characters.

Only the "important" fights required micromanagment on the level almost ALL fights require in PoE - at least so far, 15-20 hours into it.

Don't know if I've ever seen any AI be smart enough to run tactical patterns for the whole party that synergize well. Nor deductive reasoning to develop overall battle plans…
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Well, I've seen decent scripting in several games - but we're not talking Blade Runner replicant AI :)

Games like Dungeon Siege 2, Dragon Age and even Dragon Age: Inquisition have AI that allows me to focus on a few adjustments - but obviously they all have a few quirks.

I'm not asking for perfection, and I don't know why you'd think so.
 
JDR13 said:
It doesn't sound like PoE is meant to be played on Hard for most people on a first playthrough. Certainly not if it's even harder than BG on Core rules setting.
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Definitely not for most people, no. But for veterans of IE games, it's the recommended setting.

Which would be all of us here, more or less :)
 
Rotate can't work with pre-rendered backgrounds.

Personally, I think that was a wise decision - as the backgrounds are beautiful and I wouldn't want Obsidian to use 3D backgrounds instead, as I don't think they have the talent to pull them off in a way that would match the beauty of pre-rendered backgrounds.
 
Fluent said:
saki, Drink a cup of coffee, put on some headphones and immerse yourself in the experience. Try not to think too hard about what mechanics the game uses and just play and let the game unfold for you. I guarantee you will start to appreciate what they've done a bit more. ;)

And yes, there is flanking in the game. It's an important mechanic that can be tricky to pull off but very useful at times. :)

And I don't think you can run from combat. :(
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Could you tell me what's required for flanking? I've yet to figure that one out.
 
DArtagnan said:
Definitely not for most people, no. But for veterans of IE games, it's the recommended setting.

Which would be all of us here, more or less :)
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I think it really depends on what they consider to be "veteran". I've completed all of the IE games and some of them more than once, but I was always satisfied with just playing them on the default difficulty. ToB for instance was already tough as nails without increasing the difficulty further.

I'm sure plenty of people finished those games on Core difficulty, but I doubt they were the majority.
 
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