Fallout 4 Main plot - pause for breath?

Morrandir · December 2, 2015

The protagonist is searching for his kidnapped son, which would be an urgent motivation to immediately follow every lead and skip everything not helping in this matter.

I normally like to play my characters according to their role, which would mean that I should skip all side distractions and follow the main plot straightly.

My question now is if there's a pause for breath in the main plot where it would make sense for the protagonist to do some side quests earning money or something like that.
If yes, how far in the main plot is it? I'm quite early in the plot:

I just killed Kellog and brought his "brain" to Nick Valentine.

wolfgrimdark · December 2, 2015

Absolutely - you reach a point where it actually makes perfect sense to just pause as you need to make some educated decisions which require plenty of time to make. While in my game Shaun is just my characters god-child (and not his actual kid) I still felt it was important to find him. Plus I was very curious to know! So I went through it expecting to have to follow it to the very end. Not so.

Follow the quest till you find out what happens to Shaun. That is at the end of Act 2. After that you are pretty much like "Well what do I want to do now" and have a lot of time to do things without worrying about the status of Shaun. Just be careful what you do pursue as some quests will tip the factions into a no return point and close them out. Before you complete Act 2 key faction quests are closed off so you can't get them - you just get the "radiant AI/fetch style" quests. Once the main story goes far enough, however, it will open up key faction quests that can then close off other factions. EDIT: Last part is what I have heard from a friend but since I am in the middle of doing one of them now I am can't verify that part. But it makes sense. Only the Minute Men seem to be outside of the other 3 factions.

joxer · December 3, 2015

I never saw my game mentioning any acts.

As wolfgrimdark suggested, the moment of pause is when you learn your child's fate. The problematic part however is - if you rushed through the main story, what pause you need for? You don't know what's happening anywhere, so why would you take a pause?
I believe main quests are sucking up to speedrunners. In a perfect game there could have been some stalling as I've suggested elsewhere so you get a new main quest after exploring several new sideareas for generated clues or something.

Minutemen faction may seem outside, but if you do Defend The Castle quest, you'll stop being "friendly" with other factions and all three other factions will attack Minutemen base. To make sure this never happens, do not give the Network Scanner tape to Sturges (don't talk to him in Sanctuary while having the tape in your inventory, after you used that tape in Instutute).
Well I mean… Unless you want to finish the game on Minutemen side. Which is kinda silly because…

Vice versa seems that by pushing your way through any of other three factions doesn't make Minutemen your enemies and they stay neutral towards others (which is logical as you're the general).

wolfgrimdark · December 3, 2015

I think it depends on your play style though. Some folks like one single big massive play through where they do it all and see it all. Others may want to focus on the main story.

Or, like me, some prefer to role play a character and stick to their personality - which means you can't do/see everything in most cases. On the other hand it means I can play a second game, with a different character, who can then do a different faction and hang out with a different companion .. and see content I did not see the first time … and see things from a different perspective or another point of view.

Pretty much depends on the player and what their style is and how they like to play. No single way is better or worse as all that matters is the player is enjoying playing the game the way they like.

EDIT: Also, just to point out, the information Joxer has in the spoiler is not completely correct - its a bit more complicated than that. A lot depends on what you do with the other factions and how far you progress with them.

joxer · December 3, 2015

The information in the spoiler is completely correct. I didn't write down other stuff related in details of course (beside tape, the game will also try to force castle defense if you get kicked out of Institute but that's the case where you have no control like in the tape case), just wanted to point out the difference between going to the end with one faction or other three.

EDIT:
Just remember what I said in another thread (VG247 article fail).
The Network Scanner tape and scripts about it are heavily broken which VG247 site ignored and based their conclusions on it.

The safest option is not to give the tape to anyone till you decide who you'll actually work with.
Another safe option till (and if) Bethesda ever fixes it, is to give the tape after you used it in Institute to Desdemona/Tinker Tom (Railroad) as it won't lock out any faction ending at all, including Institute's.

Even if you gave the tape to Minutemen/BoS, because of script bugs you can still pickpocket it one time and pass to another faction you want to end the game with. Or if you're still undecided (like I am) pass it to Railroad.
Here's a new example of player screwing the game by warm-cold play and now he can't reverse it:
http://steamcommunity.com/app/377160/discussions/0/492379439671262506/

wolfgrimdark · December 3, 2015

Well I admit I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who try to play every angle in a game and then complain when something happens.

My concern with what was written is that there appear to be other requirements that have to be met before an attack occurs, which is a critical point. This is based on what I read though - I don't know from personal experience so it could be wrong.

For example, according to all the stuff I read, other factions won't attack you in the MM unless you do something to provoke them. For example IF you get kicked out of the institute AND gave the tape to Sturges then they will attack you. But that quest doesn't happen UNLESS you get kicked out of the Institute. It isn't fired JUST by giving him the tape. There are other conditions that have to be met - although I wish to stress this is from a couple of walk throughs I read not personal experience. I was having trouble figuring out which faction to follow so I did some research. I decided to go with Institute and Minute Men as that team up seems to offer the most hope for humanity. Plus I wasn't comfortable killing Shaun (even if he has cancer anyway). Parent killing their child (even a god-child) is a very cold thing to do. Maybe in another play through I can stomach it and join the BOS.

Toff · December 3, 2015

I went with the Institute also but they eventually asked me to do something I did not want to. When I said No, they said tough do it anyway. I'm not sure what I'm going to do now. I may switch my allegiance. I am now catching up on MM and misc quests while I decide on what to do. BoS already hates me. RR is still an option.

Morrandir · December 3, 2015

wolfgrimdark said:
Absolutely - you reach a point where it actually makes perfect sense to just pause as you need to make some educated decisions which require plenty of time to make.

That's great news. Thanks!

joxer said:
The problematic part however is - if you rushed through the main story, what pause you need for? You don't know what's happening anywhere, so why would you take a pause?

Well, I as a gamer what to take pauses. If the protagonist "doesn't want" and you want to play according to the role there's a conflict. (Like for example in TW3.)

Having a suggested breaks to take breath in the main plot resolves this conflict.

joxer · December 3, 2015

wolfgrimdark said:
My concern with what was written is that there appear to be other requirements that have to be met before an attack occurs, which is a critical point. This is based on what I read though - I don't know from personal experience so it could be wrong.

I've tried to keep neutral with all sides as much as I can in order to explore every locations possible. If there was a point during a quest that seemed like it'll make me an enemy of a faction, I'd just reload.
And I did. Explore. Everything (except underwater ocean). I believe.

After 200+ hours seems that I've run out of options and now have to choose.
All quests left are decision makers. So either I have to pick one of them to continue or force myself into Minutemen ending.
Have to think it over, I know only that I want to get rid of this BoS here. But neither of other three don't sound bad.

Whoever is interested which quests are point of no return:

Underground Undercover (Railroad) - if I proceed further with this one, it seems as I'm finally taking Railroad side who are against both Institute and BoS (I've posted pic where Desdemona declares BoS as enemies

Tactical Thinking (BoS) - makes me working against Railroad and eventually against Institute

Mass Fusion (Institute) - the game actually warns you that it's point of no return:

wolfgrimdark · December 3, 2015

Toff said:
I went with the Institute also but they eventually asked me to do something I did not want to. When I said No, they said tough do it anyway. I'm not sure what I'm going to do now. I may switch my allegiance. I am now catching up on MM and misc quests while I decide on what to do. BoS already hates me. RR is still an option.

Aye I am torn as I have friends in all three factions, and one person in particular I do not want to kill. At the moment I am leaning towards Institute and Minute Men. Otherwise Railroad and Minute Men.

BOS is too intense but they also seem to have some of the best and most involved quests and story. I also like the "brotherhood" feeling. So I may just have to role play a fanatic type character (in a second game) who puts the perceived good of all over the individual and ... of course ... the BOS is the "good."

Morrandir · December 4, 2015

wolfgrimdark said:
Absolutely - you reach a point where it actually makes perfect sense to just pause as you need to make some educated decisions which require plenty of time to make.

Hm… not sure if I've reached that point now. Did you mean

the moment in the quest "The Molecular Level" where you need to build the device that gets you into the institute and you need to talk with either Railroad, BoS or Minutemen to get help?

joxer · December 5, 2015

Your choice on that point doesn't matter.
I went with Railroad help on that point, then finished the game once with Instutute and then reloaded certain save to see the ending with BoS.

If you're unsure who to choose, do go with Railroad because they have OP (plz nerf!) undergarment upgrade after certain safehouse quests. Don't build it on your own (Minutemen) because you'll have to provide all resources by yourself, otherwise the 3rd party provides resources at any settlement you choose to build the device in.

If needed, I can write down points that cut you a faction off (you become enemy of a faction and automatically quests you got from that faction previously become failed).
You can actually play triple then doubleagent for a long long time although in the end you'll have to choose…

which children you'll kill, ones onboard BoS flagship or those living in Institute.

Morrandir · December 5, 2015

joxer said:
If needed, I can write down points that cut you a faction off (you become enemy of a faction and automatically quests you got from that faction previously become failed).

Thanks for the offer, but that's not what I'm currently interested in.

Just want to get to the point wolf was talking of.

wolfgrimdark · December 5, 2015

Morrandir said:
Thanks for the offer, but that's not what I'm currently interested in.

Just want to get to the point wolf was talking of.

The point comes after the molecular level - when you have gone far enough so you have at least had a chance to meet all the factions in the game, including the Institute (the hardest one to reach). The game enables the player to meet all the factions first, should they want to, before finishing up the second act. Once you have gotten to the institute, and met the people there, then you reach a nice break point.

I added more detail in the spoiler below but you may want to avoid it and just keep going on the quest line. I feel pretty confident in saying you will know the point I am talking about when you reach it.

It is when you discover what happens to Shaun. That ends the second act. With the pressure to find your son gone you can then take your time to decide what you want to do after that. It will make a lot of sense when you reach that point and it will be very clear to you. The game actually encourages you in some ways to explore and learn as much as you can about things, at that point, so you can make educated decisions about which faction to join.

The thing to watch out for, as Joxer points out, is now that you are in Act 3 you can do certain quests that will force you into a faction earlier than you may want. In general the fetch/radiant quests are all safe. You can even do some of the main faction quests as well but have to pay attention as at some point there won't be any turning back.

But in general you will be in a "limbo" point for an indeterminate period where it feels safe to just explore and do things. At least that is how it was for me. I felt no immediate pressure to do anything.

Morrandir · December 5, 2015

Thanks!

I'll check the spoiler when in doubt.

joxer · December 5, 2015

Morrandir said:
Thanks for the offer, but that's not what I'm currently interested in.

Just want to get to the point wolf was talking of.

Sorry I misjudged the question.
The pause you're asking about is the main quest Instutionalized. Finish that one and then you can go lollygagging. I mean... You could ignore the Shaun arc before it (as I did) but well...

Morrandir · December 5, 2015

Ok, got it now.
Nice design in main plot here, both for the plot twist (didn't see that coming!) and the possibility to take a breath.

wolfgrimdark · December 6, 2015

Morrandir said:
Ok, got it now.
Nice design in main plot here, both for the plot twist (didn't see that coming!) and the possibility to take a breath.

Great! Aye I thought it was nicely done - takes the pressure of I found.

Too me it felt very unnatural to just say "hey my kid got kidnapped but I think I will let him rot where ever he is while I go running around collecting every magazine and bobblehead I can while exploring the country side."

I felt I should be making a sincere effort to track him down.

joxer · December 6, 2015

Even if you went bobbleheads/magazines collecting, you just can't collect all magazines till you find him. I remember at least two that can't be reached before you find Shaun, one in Police Station BoS HQ and another in Mass Fusion facility, but probably there is more as I didn't actually write everything down.

Natural or not, it is most probably the weakest point of the game.

As I said somewhere before, the design should have been made to block you somehow from rushing through the main story and still not feel awkward.
Exploration is not so much problematic as everything is all new to the main protagonist and you basically never know where you could find another clue what happened, but forcing settlements with stuff and crops… Cmon, you want to find your son, not to go agriculture.

Why I said it's "probably"… Because in my own mind the actual weakest point of the game are endless and frequent trashmob respawns.
Better design would have been no such crap and no so called neverending radiant garbage - till you finish the game. Once you finish, shower me with MMOish endgame grinding, I wouldn't complain ever.
That way both sides would be satisfied. One that doesn't want to levelup on grinding too fast and another who wants to have every single perk possible and goes grinding on respawns and not exploring new locations.

wolfgrimdark · December 6, 2015

joxer said:
Even if you went bobbleheads/magazines collecting, you just can't collect all magazines till you find him. I remember at least two that can't be reached before you find Shaun, one in Police Station BoS HQ and another in Mass Fusion facility, but probably there is more as I didn't actually write everything down.

Natural or not, it is most probably the weakest point of the game.

As I said somewhere before, the design should have been made to block you somehow from rushing through the main story and still not feel awkward.
Exploration is not so much problematic as everything is all new to the main protagonist and you basically never know where you could find another clue what happened, but forcing settlements with stuff and crops… Cmon, you want to find your son, not to go agriculture.

Why I said it's "probably"… Because in my own mind the actual weakest point of the game are endless and frequent trashmob respawns.
Better design would have been no such crap and no so called neverending radiant garbage - till you finish the game. Once you finish, shower me with MMOish endgame grinding, I wouldn't complain ever.
That way both sides would be satisfied. One that doesn't want to levelup on grinding too fast and another who wants to have every single perk possible and goes grinding on respawns and not exploring new locations.

Aye I can pretty much agree with all of this. I just felt like I was trying to balance my desire to explore and see everything while the RP in me felt I was being a shitty parent for not hunting down Shaun.

Still don't know who I am going to side with yet - so just exploring and playing. The only faction I am not worried about is BOS. Well for that matter I don't care that much for the RR either.

My big problem ...

... is that my character really doesn't fit in with the Institute at all. It feels totally wrong to him. He would never pick to live at the Institute or work with it. Yet he also doesn't want to blow it up with a nuclear reactor. Killing not only his son (before the cancer does) but other children and families that live in the Institute. It feels like I am killing a whole city of innocent people to get at a few of the decision making people.

On the other hand killing the BOS or RR is just killing those who are devoted to it and hence made the choice to stand with it.

So either Wolf spends the rest of his life doing something he hates (being at the Institute) or he has to murder a lot of innocent people including his own son (or god-son as the case may be). I also am not completely happy with the behavoir of the institute and how they treat people on the surface and synths. Of course as the Director maybe I could change that. Plus if I work it right the Minutemen will still be neutral. Maybe Wolf could negotiate teamwork between the Minutemen and the Institute to help the people on the top using the science of the Institute.

So at the moment the INST seems like the lesser of all the evils and probably the way I will go.

Fallout 4 Main plot - pause for breath?

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