Combats Turn based and real time

Nope the tactic level isn't guided by the rules. Somehow ok, but it's guided much more by:
- design of the tactic level the player will need reach,
- player mind limit.

If it's above player mind limit it's no more tactic, it's strategy and approximate tactic that is per essence strategy.

Typically RTS games tactic level is very poor and limited because of the real time and the complexity. Eventually 1% of RTS players so at best 0.1% of players reach a mind training, education, and mind level allowing them build really complex tactics real time. But no way it's the core of RTS gameplay, at best the core of RTS multiplayer at highest level and for an extreme minority.

I don't think you ever played chess, or at least never tried learn a bit with reading and training and chess school. It must be quote that now bots are certainly superior to humans in chess, at least overall.

UgoIgo old refrain coupled with elitism as it must.

Claim that tactics is not compatible with real time: tactics are a real time concept. Tactics involves time and space and how they are related.
The mindset goes as far as disclaiming that point in order to imply tactics in UgoIgo.
It is the other way round: the question is about knowing whether UgoIgo allows tactics, not if tactics is compatible with real time.

UgoIgo players also tend to port the UgoIgo ways of playing to real time: in UgoIgo, the course of action is determined as things unfold.

In real time, things operate on a different basis.

First, gathering of information (scouting, reconnaissance etc) then according to the collected information, planning, preparation and only then execution of a plan.
The adjusting in action is a minor part.
In RT the plan is not made on the fly, it happens before the engagment.

This denial occurred for PoE as UgoIgo players conceived the stealth ability as an active combat skill when, by real time standards, its purposes were scouting and preparation of the engagment (deployment, traps)

In real time, the time for planning is dissociated from the time for action.
And when the execution of the plan goes sour, it is part of RT to find ways to buy time and relaunch the process.

Lol play a bit chess, or stop argue about tactics. You are playing the arguing loop circle, I refuse play such absurd game.

Playing a game does not rely on words.

There is a big difference between chess and ugoigo products: relations between pawns are determined and certain.
UgoIgo products usually prefer another path: they reject certainty between pawns.

In chess, a pawn played correctly always eats another. In UgoIgo, it depends, the pawn might eat as it might not.

This brings a fundamental difference. Useless to bring in chess.

For those speaking German: There is a new Podcast Episode from Gamestar about that very topic:
http://www.gamestar.de/artikel/game...-uncool-umstaendlich-unsterblich,3321242.html

RTS planing is no way tactics, you are making a confusion between strategy and tactics. Tactics in RTS is very superficial from the depth point of view.

I agree that many turn based games add a random element making tactics harder. But it's still possible, just less deep analysis tree but rather complex anyway. And real time speed is a serious barrier to real deep tactics and no way it allows deeper tactics. What you refuse listen is that the real time makes it more difficult and that's why its tactic level is necessarily more superficial, read it: more difficult but more superficial.

I'll try differently:
- Is more time allows build deeper tactics?
- Is tactical level required to player isn't mainly a design decision of combats setup and difficulty?

So yeas, mostly all turn based games will have default difficulties not requiring tactics further than two moves ahead, and their design tend push deeper tactics at an approximate strategy level, no precise combination.

But RTS don't do differently they don't require hyper skilled genius players. Both limit the requirements per design because they want their products playable more than by a tiny minority of genius. And at the end more time allow deeper it's that simple, not more difficult but deeper. That's why some turn based games are among the deepest video games, not the more difficult but the deepest and no way real time can compete on this depth level, because it's less time.

So yes let say turn based games are less challenging but they allow play with deeper tactics and strategies, that's why some prefer that, they like play with deeper more complex stuff, not more challenging stuff.

Moreover to focus on the real time element supposed to generate deeper tactical play because of simultaneous movement. RPG real time with pause prove it's totally false. None have the same depth level of well designed TB RPG combats.

Again it's a matter of limit when it's too complex tactic will give up and the analysis tree is reduced. Time reduce it, a garbage of movements reduce it, good luck planing the movement collisions of many units.

Same stuff as the previous posts.

There is no confusion between strategy and tactics (actually this confusion belongs to UgoIgo players) Tactics involves a relationship between time and space. Which is destroyed by UgoIgo sequence.


As so often, a special definition is required: tactics only exists in UgoIgo products. It does not exist anywhere else. This mental gymnastics is not awarded to simple minded people.

There cant be tactics if planned ahead so there is not tactics in warfare or sports. Both of them applying tactics before tactics were applied in vid products.

When following the UgoIgo players path, there cant be tactics elsewhere.

Dasale said:

So yeas, mostly all turn based games will have default difficulties not requiring tactics further than two moves ahead, and their design tend push deeper tactics at an approximate strategy level, no precise combination.

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No. UgoIgo percentage based products follow a one step at a time pattern. The projection is minimal.
It takes one decision and then assessing the result of the decision.
The requirement to think globally a situation is minimal.

A character hits then the next step is thought of.
A character does not hit then the next step is thought of.

There is no planning over two turns +. One turn at a time, that is all.

It is different from real time requirements that call for a global assessment of the situation. The possibility to re assess a situation every second is small.
The demand for projecting an expected outcome is far greater. Hence a more complex thought pattern than for UgoIgo.

ChienAboyeur said:

UgoIgo

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Erm... What language is that? Is it Russian perhaps?

This signals memory issues. Asking for answers that were provided multiple times by different people over and over again.

Yeah, Joxer!

Chien's sig below

brainlog:0

ChienAboyeur said:

This signals memory issues. Asking for answers that were provided multiple times by different people over and over again.

Click to expand...

Erm… I never hid the fact that, Hollywood trash movies would say, that I'm not getting any younger. Not once I posted my memory slips probably due to my age.

But in this particular word case where a dozen of different language physical dictionaries I browsed got me no answer, for all I know noone ever asked what language is that word of yours up there.
To make sure I remember correctly, I've searched through forums and I can't see someone asking what language is that.
Memory issues, sure, but who's? Maybe forum search option is bugged too.

But you also know me and my stubborness. If there is a problem, I want to solve it. Regardless of others', in this case you, refusal to help.
Google translate to the rescue. And Google translate detected instantly that "ugoigo" is a japanese word that means "moving".

So thanks for nothing man.

People on this site who failed to recognize it as an english term hide their ignorance by labelling it chienglish.

Probably time to work on that search skill.