Jade Empire.

We have a lot of new info coming about JE and the release, so anyone looking forward to the title or if you have any questions you can ask here.
Since I am listening to So long, Wolong as I write this and it's such an excellent Asian themed cut, I am throwing up a linky.
http://www.summoner.com/downloads/wolong_mp3.zip

Ok here are the newest pics posted 1/18 by Dhruin.
http://jade.bioware.com/specialedition/screenshots.html

JE is using the Aurora engine so many are encouraged at the mod potential much like KotOR, Bioware's last PC game.

Maybe the RPGWatch JE experts Jaz and PatrickWeeks could tell us about their favorite characters and the different powers.
It seems there are two sides to the Chi of the players, Open Palm and Closed Fist which represents the spectrum of good and evil, as in past Bioware titles this could have an effect on the world and characters around us.

The expected release date seems to be 2/25/07.

JE does not appeal at all to me, so I'm giving it a miss!! Dragon Age will be my next Bioware buy!!

Yes that sounds very good, too.
Did you see this article from 12/07/2006?
http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?pager.offset=3&cId=3155733
Do you recall if this is a 2007 title?

Acleacius said:

Do you recall if this is a 2007 title?

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I would say that sounds quite optimistic ...

As for Jade Empire, I have heard it is quite over-rated from some folks ... I don't know if I will pay full price for it - probably wait a while or look for a good sale.

I couldn't recall the release time do you mean it's more in line with 2008 or 2009, I honestly don't have a clue?

I see a price of $40 US, so for the length of play in the range of 20-30 hours, seems very reasonable price range, especially since they did do a proper port of at least KotOR quality, well afaik.
Since I am a huge fan of Asian Martial Arts I know unless they completely drop the ball, I will enjoy it.
I can't tell you have many times I sat at watched even without subtitles, especially in the early days when it was impossible to find Jackie Chan flicks here in the US.

If I had to recommend one it would be the original version of Mr. Canton and Lady Rose also listed in some places as Miracles, iirc was an absolute marvel to watch.
Most English speakers will watch the Americanized version which is certainly watered down but enjoyable and like all JC made moives it is family friendly.
I don't think they use blood and most if not all of his action is based on Charlie Chaplin (his peer) styles of violence, though i'm not sure this is true of the US films he makes.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098019/

Iirc, JC directed, stared and wrote this title, while I am not sure how to describe this, he achieved the longest, continuous, and moving indoor shot.
In 99.9% of movies as characters move through rooms there is a cut well not here I believe Anita Mui walked through 4 maybe 5 rooms without a scene cut.
JC's eye for the shot is quite remarkable whether it's the Armor of God series, Project A series or Police Story series of course the action and comedy are always entertaining.
Seems the low point of all his movies are when he has been forced to work with US studio in an effort to get some recognition in the US, to bad really.

I can sure understand people whom aren't Asian Martial Arts fans being more cautious and as certainly getting a better value can boost incentives, maybe some sale prices won't be too far off.

Bioware defiantly has weakness in their release philosophies, it certainly could be the cause and effect of working with m$.
They basically shoot themselves in the foot by having to do releases so far apart, especially when you’re talking about years, which has got to be insane from a PR standpoint.
Look at how well m$ ports to PC go over, 90% are like rocks sinking to the bottom of a pond and it's quite possible only Bioware games have been able to make the jump with some degree of success.
Bioware seems to care about the fan base they are building so this must be related to m$, bs.

Acleacius said:

Maybe the RPGWatch JE experts Jaz and PatrickWeeks could tell us about their favorite characters and the different powers.

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So having played it makes me an expert? Teehee, I like that . It's been a while, so let's see if I remember details...
Who were my favorite characters and why? Basically, you have three different character types (I don't have the special edition, so no Monk Zeng for me... wouldn't know his specialties): the fast type (Furious Ming/m and Radiant Jen Zi/f), the hard-hitting type (Tiger Shen/m and Wu the Lotus Blossom/f) and the mage type (Lu the Prodigy/m and Scholar Ling/f). You can also create your own character, but you'll have to use one of the preset avatars.
I played the game with Jen Zi first (Open Palm), then with Tiger Shen (Open Palm), then with Scholar Ling and finally, Lu the Prodigy (both Closed Fist). It is nice how the villagers talk about you at one point, not noticing you're walking by, and how they give a physical description... heh.
In CRPGs I usually play the artillery (~mages), but here I tried all 'professions' available to me, not least because I liked their looks .
While Jen Zis moves looked great, it was a lot easier with the less-graceful style of Tiger Shen, especially in the earlier levels. But isn't this the case in most CRPGs, anyway? The mages were great artillery as usual, but since anyone can use even the most powerful spells after a while (just to different extents), it evened out advantages.
My favorite Character was... hm... it'sa draw between Jen with 1000 Cuts style and Long Sword and the Tiger with White Demon and Double Axes. My favorite spell was (surprise, surprise, and it's far too strong) Jade Golem, and my favorite Chi side was Open Palm (I have serious difficulties playing more or less evil characters, my heart just isn't in it. Evil works only when I'm the GM).
My favorite follower was Sagacious Zu (sniff - I won't go into this any further as there have been many threads over at the official Bioware forums lamenting his in-romancability), then Sky and Chai Ka.

I'm another martial arts fan, so I take it you'll like the game, Acleacius. JE could have been much better, but it was really good as it was.

Favorite character: For me, Kang. No contest. Whirlwind is up there, but Kang was all over it. And Master Li. I really enjoyed what they did with his character.

As non-funny followers go, Dawn Star was my favorite. But then, I'm a light-side sucker paladin wuss.

In the original game, styles ultimately didn't matter that much because you could get through the game so relatively easily once you realized that all you had to do was jump over people and then punch them. That said, playing for enjoyment, I really really liked Spirit Thief, which lets you steal Chi from people. Spirit Thief lets you almost ignore your Health and put all your points into Spirit instead, because you can always use Chi to heal yourself in-game, and hey, if you run low on Chi and are good at dodging, you can suck the Chi out of other people and use that very same Chi to heal yourself.

Jade Golem, at least in the Xbox version, was dramatically overpowered, as was Storm Dragon. So, uh, try them out. They might still be kinda fun.

As starter styles go, I liked Legendary Strike and Leaping Tiger (unless I'm botching the names -- it's been awhile), because they were the balanced ones. Thousand Cuts is really fast, but the range blows, and White Demon was too slow for me to really enjoy it, powerful as it was.

I liked Jade Empire, personally, but I think that I was a really good target audience person for it. I play a few fighting games, but not many, and I play a lot of roleplaying games. As such, the fighting was fun for me, not too hard and not too easy. (I hope it is indeed harder in this version.) I still wish that we'd gotten a deeper inventory system than the essence gems -- but that was a core choice in designing the game: make something that even people who don't do RPGs will be able to understand. I think it was a good learning experience, in that stripping down the inventory didn't bring in flocks of new users, and made a lot of people unhappy. (I know that in this edition, there are more gems, but you're still not going to have a full inventory system. That might not be what you want to hear, but I'm trying the crazy path of, you know, not lying.)

And as for BioWare's policies shooting them in the foot -- well, I addressed it in the other thread, but I don't see it as foot-shooting. I see it as something that made sense for a small company and now doesn't make as much sense. It's easy to look back and say "Wow, horrible move!", but at the time, BioWare needed the very generous deal that exclusivity contract offered in order to get Jade Empire made at all (along with Dragon Age, which still does not have a publisher, meaning that all of DA's development has been paid for by other projects).

Ultimately, and I say this not to bump up my own bonus, seriously... if you want to send a message, give Jade Empire a chance. Vote with your dollar. Say "I am NOT going to buy an Xbox to buy your games, but I WILL believe in your games enough to buy them even a year later." That's going to send the message that the PC market is powerful enough to be worth prioritizing (in the form of expanded content and in the form of what platforms to develop for).

I really respect Bioware for the quality of their games, but for a long time now I've felt they were in a rut. It seems like they have applied the same formula every time they tackle a new type of game, and the only new things going on are not necessarily better ones. This description of JE has made me think that perhaps they've come out of their box a bit, so I will keep an open mind, Patrick.
I'd like to see them succeed at some real innovation--and making a console port appealing to crusty pc rpg players would cetainly epitomize that.

Jaz
"I like that "
Well you are sure an expert to me.
You know I am a sucker for Mages also and will probably be my choice and I always play at least CG though not really LG since I take stuff from chest and bodies that don't belong to me, technically.

PatrickWeekes
" For me, Kang. No contest."
Is Kang, Keng or is Keng actually Kang, more importantly is Kang Keng or Keng Kang the new male/female choices in the new content PC version.

"As non-funny followers go, Dawn Star was my favorite. But then, I'm a light-side sucker paladin wuss"
Excellent, I love funny and I am a light-sider too, so I will like Dawn Star.
I’m just not the Paladin type though, cause if a female NPC is wearing a dress and climbed a ladder, I would look.

Nice, sounds like lots of powers and attacks/weapons in this new system, though I never have really played fighting games, since it's an RPG with Martial Arts I’m looking forward to this, even if it's a lot of button mashing in the fights I really feel I would like the story.

magerette
"I've felt they were in a rut. It seems like they have applied the same formula every time"
Really something about the formula of BGs, MDK2s, NWNs and KotOR seem repetitive and disappointed you?
I rather enjoyed them, the NWN OC grated on my nerves occasionally and the obvious disappointment as a PC (only) gamer, Bioware has to sign on with m$'s console exclusives, forcing us to wait 2 years to get their games now.
It's completely understandable to insure their continued existence, as too many great devs has been lost and from the way its been said ME maybe the last of these 2 year delays, woot!

Anyone know if there has been any info released about the system requirment due to the added content?

Acleacius, I have enjoyed all the Bioware games to one extent or another(except MDK-not sure what that is) but I never finished BG2 or NWN1 or KOTOR because everything seemed blurry and repetitive after awhile.(Could have been my graphics card )

Some of the NPC's were solid, but others made me contemplate abandoning my alignment(NG or CG) and committing murder. Also, back in the day, the AI pathfinding issues drove me nuts. But the stories, dialogue based play choices and the dnd influence were all excellent and they were high quality, addictive games which I played a great deal--I've played through Throne of Baal almost to completion twice.

But KOTOR, while having a lot of fun moments, also seemed much more dumbed down and streamlined-and though "new" in terms of setting, was really very similar in terms of everything else.

NWN & expansions seemed very repetititve in terms of the kinds and types of characters and quests. They were still fun and still high quality games and I'm not bashing them or saying I didn't enjoy them(well, except for the OC-didn't much care for that). They were just predictable, and more of the same. Hence, the rut remark.

I wouldn't say these games disappointed me--perhaps it was I who expected too much from them. My favorite Bioware games were the Icewind Dale series, so maybe that explains it all

Anyway, I had no interest in Jade Empire before this thread, but I am thinking that possibly I might consider playing it now, as I also enjoy the martial arts thing. If it isn't just Baldur's Gate with Fists of Fury, that would be even better. : )

Acleacius said:

"As non-funny followers go, Dawn Star was my favorite. But then, I'm a light-side sucker paladin wuss"
Excellent, I love funny and I am a light-sider too, so I will like Dawn Star.

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But as Patrick already said, Dawn Star was quite non-funny... a nice girl, but not funny at all. My Tiger Shen was instantly in love with her, you see... no, she definitely wasn't funny. Neither was Silk Fox (and she wasn't a nice girl, either. Cheeky and with a huge chip on her shoulder, but not nice). And Chai Ka's hostess wasn't all that funny, either... involuntarily funny, perhaps ^_^.
No, no, the funny guys in the troupe were all, erm, guys: Hou, Whirlwind and Kang the Mad.

Nice, sounds like lots of powers and attacks/weapons in this new system, though I never have really played fighting games, since it's an RPG with Martial Arts I’m looking forward to this, even if it's a lot of button mashing in the fights I really feel I would like the story.

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Don't worry, it didn't play like a fighting game at all. At least the Box version didn't. There wasn't more or less button smashing than in any other random action RPG.

MDK2

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So THEY made it? Hmmm... I never played MDK 2, but I loved Shiny's first part to bits. The soundtrack was great, too, I even bought it on CD.
@Magerette: MDK was a flashy, arcade-y, yet quite fresh and fun action game featuring a rubber-clad protagonist, a scientist and an airship-piloting dog. It was so weird you absolutely wanted to see the next level... I have never seen MDK 2, though, and thus have no idea if Bioware were able to keep up the flame of the first one.

Minor nit: BioWare didn't make the Icewind Dale series. I don't remember whether it was Black Isle or somebody else, but it wasn't BioWare. Someone licensed the engine.

Regarding magerette's note about repetition getting old after awhile, I think that's actually why BioWare is focusing on shorter games -- or more specifically, shorter-critpath games with more optional content, as opposed to games with a very long critpath. Ideally, you'd finish it before getting too bored with the combat (or the oft-similar hallway-with-room-with-four-bad-guys-and-a-loot-box theme), but people who wanted a longer play experience would get that from sidequests.

We'll see. On the Xbox, Jade took me about 35-40 hours, but I moved slowly and explored everything.

Also regarding combat: the easy-arcade design was at least in part there to answer the concern of combat getting dull after awhile. As it turns out, "Hit B to jump over them, then A to kill them" isn't a whole lot less dull than "Click on enemy, watch PC attack, wait for bad guy to eventually fall down and shoot XPs out of his bleeding torso" after about 30 hours, though. We've heard really good things about the new combat system in this version, but I at least haven't seen anything yet.

Patrick, IWD was from Interplay and Josh Sawyer did much of the design work for it. The original, was his first game!! (I used to be a regular on the Bioware forums back then!! )

magerette
Actually they only did MDK2 not MDK (Murder Death Kill), no one ever uses anything but MDK2 which is basically a quirky comic book, shooter (with puzzle elements), a Q type scientist, a janitor/reluctant hero and a 6 legged robo dog all defending earth from alien invaders.
It actually would make a good kids game if it wasn't actually intended as one, despite the name which was originally made by Shiny, MDK and Earthworm Jim may have been Shiny's only good games as they are the ones whom made the Matrix games.
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/914406.asp?q=mdk 2

Did you complete KotOR? It maybe has one of the best plot twist of any game made, about 60% of the way through the game, just trying not to spoil it for you.

Jaz
" But as Patrick already said, Dawn Star was quite non-funny"
Heh, oops, you know from the point of reading the post to writing mine, looks like I got the funny and non-funny NPCs backwards.

"So THEY made it?"
Yes and on the gamerankings they are MDK 89% and MDK 2 86% but the Shiny MDK is only reviewed by 4 while 43 reviewed MDK 2, plus MDK2 has a much better story (funnier) imo and much better graphical look.

PatrickWeekes
"Minor nit: BioWare didn't make the Icewind Dale series."
Ok thanks, when you say it now that seems right but when I looked at the Moby list I bet they didn't distinguish between create and publish.
Between mixing your funny non-funny NPCs and not catching the publisher bit, I may start needing to drink more caffeine, yeah that’s it!

Or is Moby completely wrong the more I focus my Chi on it didn't Bioware pick it and possibly all of the BlackIsle licensed stuff during the Interplay debacle, they are usually very reliable?
http://www.mobygames.com/browse/games/bioware-corporation/

Jaz/AC-Thanks for the explanation of MDK-dogs, robots and combat-oriented janitors -definitely it looks like another hole in my gaming experience I need to fill someday.

Patrick, I apologize for accusing Bioware of making my favorite games Must have been those Bioware logos all over the manuals that misled me.NOTE*** humor, HUMOR!!--***

@ Corwin--Indeed it was developed by Interplay, and having lurked the Codex for many years I now know more than I ever could conceive was possible about Herve Caen, France, the stock market and many other Interplay-related topics.

As we know by the many times this topic comes up, it's very difficult to determine-let alone execute- the mix that makes a great rpg, and no doubt that's why we see so many that fall short.

Devs/publishers are bombarded by consumer feedback on levels that other products never see. The pressure to not just sell but sell bigtime is ratcheting way up, and so many different talents have to come together to do so that perhaps a formula is all there is to cling to sometimes.

But companies, like people, occasionally need to reinvent themselves,while somehow in the process retaining what made them unique. Hopefully, that's what JE, ME and Dragon Age are all about.

**phew hopes she is off the hook now**

Some people already played Jade Empire on XBox, now there are some already playing Jade Empire on PC, and a few have to wait even longer.

As a Bioware/Obsidian fanboi, I purchase all their games, this is no exception. However, I am deeply dissappointed over the "XBox exclusive" thingie that delayed Jade Empire and now Mass Effect from me as a PC gamer, but still, whenever there's a bioware/obsidian roleplaying game it's usually gold.

Great game, although too short. A run through it takes roughly 14-16 hours even with all sidequests. I really enjoy playing in a different setting than the usual medieval style, and Biowares' writing is, as usual, of high quality. My favorite NPC is probably the chef with the crazy wife, he's got some hilarious stories to tell. As for playable character I prefer the balanced guy in the blue clothing, can't recall his original name - I called him Revan.

Favorite martial art: Iron palm
Favorite support style: Storm Dragon
Favorite magic: Tempest, because of the area paralyze
Favorite weapon: Tang's Vengance
Favorite transformation: Jade Golem, both this and Red Minister are slightly overpowered, but fun to play.

Hm, on my current run through the game I'm at 15 hours, and I just arrived at the capital. This time I'm trying to be thorough.

Jaz said:

Hm, on my current run through the game I'm at 15 hours, and I just arrived at the capital. This time I'm trying to be thorough.

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This is my first run, and I show 17 hours having just arrived in the capital ... but I know I've left it running and done other stuff, so I don't know how that impacts time.

It certainly does. Happened to me once, too...