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May 11th, 2021, 16:51
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Well, the issue is that by selecting a faction you also "select your class". If your favorite class and your favorite faction are in conflict, the player is forced to make a non-satisfying decision which imho decreases fun.
I also see the benefit of those tough decisions and the beauty of interweaving game world and mechanics but I think that all together the net value of this design is negative.
I agree that personal properties and faction should be different decisions. If the lore requires some connection it could be implemented by being raised/educated in one faction but being able to choose a different one later on. IIRC Morrowind was built a little bit like that.
@Ripper: I would also be happy, if every faction has positive and negative sides like groups of people in the real world too. I don't need a "goodie two shoes" faction, but also don't like immoral fanatics.
In D&D speech I would say that choice of a faction should define neither your class nor your alignment.
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May 11th, 2021, 16:55
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
I don't like the faction system either. However it is so much in Piranha Byte's DNA that I doubt they'll remove it.
I agree. I dont like the idea that you are usually solving problems and progressing through story with just few companions and then suddenly you have to join some faction and go with them. It goes against the "hero's journey". That is bad core design for me.

Especially if you dont like any of them.
If story demans to help some faction to progress there are other ways to do it. For example to cooperate with a faction in some mission(s), to help them achieve something. But not authomatic join.

If selecting faction means select "specialised class" there should be still some (harder to find?) option to find some Yoda in wilderness and let him train you to be specialised forgotten class "knight of XY". :-)
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May 11th, 2021, 20:24
Most of the complaints about the factions just seem to boil down to "They're not likeable enough!" which I don't really get. It's a brutal post-apoc world, and I think the factions reflect that.

If there wasn't a faction system, most of you would be complaining that there's not a faction system.

Originally Posted by Farflame View Post
If story demans to help some faction to progress there are other ways to do it. For example to cooperate with a faction in some mission(s), to help them achieve something. But not authomatic join.
There are multiple instances of that in Elex.
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May 11th, 2021, 20:56
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Most of the complaints about the factions just seem to boil down to "They're not likeable enough!" which I don't really get. It's a brutal post-apoc world, and I think the factions reflect that.
I hear what you are saying, but I see three reasons not to follow this:

1. I am convinced that even in a brutal post apocalyptic world there would be people who would want to fight for all of humanity (if you want it in pathetic words: for a democratic society) and not only for their personal interests or fanatic visions. So giving no choice like this is not plausible for me.

2. Even if you believe that the brutality of the world would lead to only selfish behavior, this would also include "lone wolves", who fight only for themselves and wouldn't want to join a faction exactly for that reason. In fact, speaking in game mechanics, the absurdity of not allowing this can be seen as follows: If you play the game as far as possible without joining a faction (by solving all side quests, even all factions related ones, except for those, which force you to finally join one faction; also killing all accessible enemies on the map) you get so powerful, that you could easily win the end-game by yourself. The game simply excludes you by invisible barriers (the walls around the area are low enough that you could fly over them in other areas of the game) from entering the end-game area, if you don't belong to a faction. This is lame even from a purely game-mechanical point of view.

3. With the "base settlement" (I always forget its in-game name) and the people assembling there PB have in fact modeled a "likable" faction (with a vision like the one described in 1. above). So PB themselves obviously believed that the world didn't force everybody to be an asshole. Not making this settlement a faction of its own was therefore not something unavoidable but simply lame again.

If there wasn't a faction system, most of you would be complaining that there's not a faction system.
I have no problems with or without a faction system, but only with the three points explained above.

An additional thought: If you play correctly you can convince all factions to join you in the end-fight, even those you don't belong too. I wouldn't mind, if the game would require you to convince at least two of the factions to join your fight, but without need for you to join one of them.
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May 11th, 2021, 21:43
A lot of overanalyzing there.

The bottom line is that it makes sense that Jax would need/want to join a faction to better his odds of survival in that world. Realistically, he wasn't going to overthrow the Albs as a lone wolf.
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May 11th, 2021, 21:50
Quite frankly, PB has never provided much in the way of freedom in roleplaying options (like the Elder Scrolls). I don't mind that though, because the story and questing is usually far superior.
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May 11th, 2021, 22:01
Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
Quite frankly, PB has never provided much in the way of freedom in roleplaying options (like the Elder Scrolls). I don't mind that though, because the story and questing is usually far superior.
Oddly enough, I think TES provides too much freedom at times. I've never liked how you can be a member of every faction at the same time without any penalties.
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May 11th, 2021, 22:45
Yeah but it's your choice, total freedom to do what you think makes sense and freedom not to do what doesn't make sense. That's the key difference.
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May 11th, 2021, 22:58
Yeah, my preference is to have the freedom (as in not too tied into the core game mechanics) but have there be consequences to difficult decisions, and eventually the dilemma of picking a side. Ideally without them being too clearly drawn as goodies and baddies.

You can have some baddies in the mix for flavour, but I think it's always going to be most interesting if there's a central conflict.
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May 12th, 2021, 00:39
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Oddly enough, I think TES provides too much freedom at times. I've never liked how you can be a member of every faction at the same time without any penalties.
In Morrowind, they did some stuff to limit the player from just doing everything, like having three Great Houses of which you can belong to only one, and pitting the Fighters and Thieves guilds against each other (IIRC). And what did people do? Made mods allowing them to just do everything. I don't get people sometimes.
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May 12th, 2021, 03:31
Sometimes people want mindless escapist gameplay without having to worry about consequences.
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May 12th, 2021, 06:22
It's just odd that they would choose an RPG for that. There are other genres better suited if that's what you're looking for.
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May 12th, 2021, 10:51
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Oddly enough, I think TES provides too much freedom at times. I've never liked how you can be a member of every faction at the same time without any penalties.
I remember quite well when the Archmage of Winterhold tried to join with the Fighter's Guild and was sent to the next cellar to fight rats.
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May 12th, 2021, 10:59
I have enjoyed the first Elex. Waiting for ELEX 2
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May 13th, 2021, 01:00
Yea much as I love those games I don't like being able to join every faction and do and be everything. I do impose my own rules but its also nice when the game has some internal logic as well

ELEX factions didn't bother me at all. I enjoy factions and think in a world like that it makes sense that you would need to seek out a tribe/clan/ally for help with something big. if just living off the land and doing your own thing then no.
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May 13th, 2021, 03:19
I thought Elex was a stellar example of choices/consequences, as far as the faction options went. I'll hope for a similar setup with the new game. Somehow, for me, being able to run through every possible outcome in one go just doesn't work for me.
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May 13th, 2021, 14:05
They aren’t much in favour of creating some publicity around their game, are they?
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May 13th, 2021, 14:11
On a previous point, I always hate when my favourite race and favourite faction are not compatible. It really turns me down. For the rest, I wasn't the biggest fan of Elex, but hopefully this one will be more appealing.

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May 13th, 2021, 15:53
My only complaint with Elex was its length. Took me 100 hours to finish, therefore a replay is almost out of question.
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May 13th, 2021, 17:08
Piranha Bytes is re-doing the same darned game design since Gothic 1 again and again!
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