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Its probably inevitable in Sims-like games, but I doubt it applies to all RPGs. It may be nice addition, but I dont agree its inevitable. Especially if its there just to be there, to have feature for teenagers.
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- Thread starter Myrthos
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Its probably inevitable in Sims-like games, but I doubt it applies to all RPGs. It may be nice addition, but I dont agree its inevitable. Especially if its there just to be there, to have feature for teenagers.
You mean homophobic sexist white men? Don't worry, my friend…I don't think your time in the sun is over quite yet.
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I love games.
I love games even more when I don't feel pushed away playing them. Not every game can be open world with full character customization, I know. And actually, I think now games that pretend that women (at least) don't exist are the minority instead of the majority. There are still some games where one can *only* play as a straight white man, and I simply don't buy them. You mentioned not wanting to play games where you're forced to play as characters you can't relate with, DArtagnan. I agree. I don't like those games either. I'm just amazed that so many men seem so afraid of other people being better represented in games. Nothing's being taken away at all. I suppose that there were a lot of men in the US in the years leading up to 1920 that were terrified at the idea of women getting to vote. Now not many people really make a big deal about it. I think the same thing will happen with video games one day.
So tag the main character "Gay" is fine, but not see him gay in any way. It's more an agreement on no gender characters.
The problem isn't simple. I never identify to the main character, I only have more or less empathy for him, it's a first step to identification but with a distance. So I like a lot play girls/women characters, mainly to watch a nice ass instead of an ugly one.
But the question remain for gay. When I play a girl/woman I prefer them gay for having two asses for the price of one, but it's purely abstract and the sex difference helps not transform the empathy into closer identification. I have much less comfort with a boy/man main character gay.
But the real point is business is business, money is money, Bioware hasn't the right position to do such unconventional approach. A smaller growing actor would be much better positioned to try use it as a differentiation tool and helps makes the lines moves (if really the lines need be moved!!!). But the video games are probably not the right vessel, when we will seen many series with a main hero gay then it will be time for video games, for now it's still very rare in TV series.
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DArtagnan
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I love games.
I don't dislike entire games because I can't relate to the main character, I just don't enjoy being forced into playing them - and that includes good games like the recent Tomb Raider.
But the point was that you can't please everyone - and I don't think it's fair to call someone homophobic and sexist because he points that out.
I'm just amazed that so many men seem so afraid of other people being better represented in games. Nothing's being taken away at all. I suppose that there were a lot of men in the US in the years leading up to 1920 that were terrified at the idea of women getting to vote. Now not many people really make a big deal about it. I think the same thing will happen with video games one day.
If men were afraid to have women vote, we would never have allowed it in the first place.
Your position was the natural result of men being superior in physical terms which made them the natural providers in the past - and it takes a lot of time and change to overcome our physical instincts.
I don't think you really understand what's going on here. Do you REALLY think "men" are afraid of presenting people in a better light? That's pretty ignorant, sorry.
Computer games were invented by men and the technology was invented by men. Men built the industry - and almost the entire audience used to consist of men.
Do you think that might have something to do with it?
Are male gamers to blame because women chose to ignore games as viable entertainment for so many years?
You didn't seem to give a shit and people who cared were considered nerds. Now they have to take up the mantle and represent everything that's wrong with human behavior?
It's not a male thing to have the dominant gender dominate, sorry. That's a human thing.
I think you're displaying an extremely sexist and narrow point of view.
Men aren't afraid to open their arms - but these things don't change over night. Again, it takes a lot of time to change the nature of things - and if women had cared about computers and technology from the beginning, they could have had a larger say. I certainly can't remember a lot of girls from my childhood lamenting not being gamers.
Quite the opposite, I'd say.
Not fair lady, myself I rush on all RPG with a gorgeous woman main character, I wonder why you wouldn't want the reverse.
In my opinion it's more your sexist eduction constraints you haven't broken that lead you to this, you would have more freedom with that, you would enjoy appreciate play with some gorgeous man object as the main character.
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DArtagnan
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In the real world, things go beyond extremes.
Don't shove sexuality in the face of the gamer unless there's a point. In fact, the less you talk about a problem - the less it's a problem.
Maybe it's just me, but I don't find sexual preferences very interesting. We all want to fuck something - but it's trivial unless it's relevant somehow, as in when we're about to engage in a sexual act.
If someone is being sexist - tell them they're being stupid. But don't design games with characters that don't serve a purpose beyond being politically correct - because that's not interesting.
Nice reversal of argument but it's just a reversal, you fake/consider it as natural what is most probably a consequence. Girls didn't bother with video games is an effect, not a cause, it's their sexist education the leaded most of them here.
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DArtagnan
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So gamers are to blame because they were unable to think for themselves and followed their "education"?
I don't follow.
I'm not saying there's no reason they didn't care about games - I'm saying they didn't care, and you can't blame male gamers for that. That's stupid.
I would have loved it if girls cared about games when I was a kid. It would have made for a much less solitary passion.
The 'smart' move from EA/Bioware is shielding themselves behind the sex/race/gender debate. So you now can't blame them because they are doing a dumb, clichéd story, with politically correct characters, politically correct choices, etc. and focused in something that is not related to, and has nothing to do with what RPGs are all about. SO If you say "I don't like…" they and the (politically correct) furious mob scream : -"Sexist! Homophobic! Misogynist! Racist!" (etc).
I also want to remember that we, gamers, are customers. I want to buy something that fulfill my expectations. I will not accept a dumb apology if I buy a sports magazine that features something that it's not related at all with sports.
You will say: "Of course, you can buy another magazine." But the problem here is that they are demanding as developers, speaking to other developers to "Eliminate social injustice in games." Fuck them. I'm buying a piece of fantasy called 'Game' that is not related in any way to the fucking reality. I don't want they to teach, impart or suggest me what they think that is right through a game. I don't care if they think I'm a better person If I respect women, gays, lesbians, etc. (what I do). I just want to play a good game, something that they forgot how to make long time ago.
I also want to remember that we, gamers, are customers. I want to buy something that fulfill my expectations. I will not accept a dumb apology if I buy a sports magazine that features something that it's not related at all with sports.
You will say: "Of course, you can buy another magazine." But the problem here is that they are demanding as developers, speaking to other developers to "Eliminate social injustice in games." Fuck them. I'm buying a piece of fantasy called 'Game' that is not related in any way to the fucking reality. I don't want they to teach, impart or suggest me what they think that is right through a game. I don't care if they think I'm a better person If I respect women, gays, lesbians, etc. (what I do). I just want to play a good game, something that they forgot how to make long time ago.
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Ha ok, yeah you can't blame many men to be sexist... I agree but admit it's complicated from an arguing point of view.
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DArtagnan
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Yeah I think it's much better to stick to that.
Well it's a bit extreme, if it's pure basic pornography I can understand, if it includes eroticism then I feel you are made in rock. The problem is more that video games still don't know do it with elegance and subtlety.
Again I feel it extreme but I'm not sure to understand. For me The Witcher 1 main character is deliciously non politically correct, the game is with even some tendentious (light/hidden) child thing, and made me laugh not because of the element/event/dialog itself but at second degree because of the non politically correct. The women cards are awfully non politically correct, and that made me laugh loud as a total idiot but the second degree was preserving me to be one.
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If only you made sense once in a while….
Well, you do - but not quite often enough
Mpf, it's just you can't understand, not my fault.
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Yes and no, frankly yes, most of the time. But no, sometimes, this is good... when it's really well done.
I mean that yeah most of the time I just want good fun, a solid good game, just for some fun time.
But it's not bad at all, and in fact great, if some game can slap in my face some thinking, serious problems, serious questions, and treat it a great way to make think or rethink a little about the point, I don't want be moralized but I agree the game make me think (in fact rethink) on some interesting/serious/complicated subjects. I do hope it's not blabarish nobody can understand, well it's just a post, and skip if it's unreadable.
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There are far more clichés out there than just clichés related to one in-game person's sex.
My favourite example is the posttraumatic stress disorder. Never happens in games. No character ever shows things like that or depressions, or physical inabilities like a mising limb. A good writer can made a hero even out of an handicapped person, or develop an touching story about the healing of an traumatised Vietnam Veteran.
But no-one does that. Instead the 10.000th WWII shooter is produced.
One of the few examples of going against this trend is "Spec Ops : The Line" by Yager Development, I read.
My favourite example is the posttraumatic stress disorder. Never happens in games. No character ever shows things like that or depressions, or physical inabilities like a mising limb. A good writer can made a hero even out of an handicapped person, or develop an touching story about the healing of an traumatised Vietnam Veteran.
But no-one does that. Instead the 10.000th WWII shooter is produced.
One of the few examples of going against this trend is "Spec Ops : The Line" by Yager Development, I read.
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DArtagnan
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Eroticism in gaming? If it's done well, it would represent the kind of point I'm talking about.
Again I feel it extreme but I'm not sure to understand. For me The Witcher 1 main character is deliciously non politically correct, the game is with even some tendentious (light/hidden) child thing, and made me laugh not because of the element/event/dialog itself but at second degree because of the non politically correct. The women cards are awfully non politically correct, and that made me laugh loud as a total idiot but the second degree was preserving me to be one.
Yes, and my point is that a PC Geralt would be very uinteresting.
In the "Were-Rabbit" movie from the Wallace & Gromit franchise, there is one "PC Mac".
There, "PC" means "Police Constable". ;D