Grimoire - is there really hope?

peterb said:
Real artists are also businessmen.
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You mean like van Gogh (and many others), who died poor and unknown and whose success came only after his (their) death?

Maybe you should say:

Artists, who want to be financially successful during their lifetime, have to be good businessmen or at least have a good agent?

But you can't claim that it is part of the definition of "real artist".
 
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bkrueger said:
You mean like van Gogh (and many others), who died poor and unknown and whose success came only after his (their) death?
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Yes, it's strange, that during their lifetime no-one bothers with them.

I think their fame comes from businessmen and businesswomen who see that a DEAD artist cannot produce anymore - the work is LIMITED.

To cut it short, this kind of thinking reduces artists to their ability to produce anything. To produce at all.


This reminds me of the way of thinking of Nazis: productive people are good people. Unproductive people are bad people, only producing costs, therefore not people who should live - this is how Nazis thought. That's why they killed thousands of handicapped people, for example. Both mentally and physically handicapped.

They reduced people as well to the factor of produciing - yes ? No ?


In the end, I fear, this is the essence of economy: To reduce someone to his or her ability to produce something.
People which cannot produce anything are only generating costs - from an economical point of view.

And this way to see is inhuman.
 
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Comparing businesspeople to Nazis is a new intellectual nadir, even coming from you.
 
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Not necessarily!! The dehumanizing aspect inherent in running a successful business can legitimately be compared to the dehumanizing attrocities perpetrated by the Nazis. It's a reasonable, if not great analogy.
 
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Well, this ain't the first time a Grimoire thread has invoked Godwin's Law...
 
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Actually, comparing business to Nazis is still irrelevant, as Nazis murdered millions for no logical reason whatsoever. Jews, Russians, Gypsies, and more whose crimes were not a lack of productivity or some actual handicap but because they were different than the German/Aryan ideal or disagreed with that ideal. Or, in some cases, because some higher up didn't like them.

Completely different from businessmen, who murder people only if they get a good return on the investment.
 
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I didn't know Cleve found Hitler and some remaining Nazis in South America and put them to work on Grimoire ...
 
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Hey, he lives in a bomb shelter!! (Well not actually, but he does have a fully equipped one outside his home; I've been in it.)
 
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Corwin said:
Not necessarily!! The dehumanizing aspect inherent in running a successful business can legitimately be compared to the dehumanizing attrocities perpetrated by the Nazis. It's a reasonable, if not great analogy.
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Ah, yes, being milked for money is perfectly comparable being put in a concentration camp, abused, raped, tortured, and gassed.

Sorry, to anyone remotely rational and with more intelligence than a plankton, it's not a legitimate or reasonable analogy--it's a silly, knee-jerk one. Hoi, guys, maybe this comes as a surprise, but not every single trivial issue you have with something is comparable to being Jews during WWII.
 
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I doubt I can comment in this thread without being accused of being a Nazi sympathiser again :)

That was kinda fun.

Anyway, maybe we should stick to the topic for once?

I'm still looking forward to Grimoire - even if I remain extremely sceptical that it's ever coming out.
 
Corwin said:
Hey, he lives in a bomb shelter!! (Well not actually, but he does have a fully equipped one outside his home; I've been in it.)
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I'm curious about this bomb shelter...how large is it and how far underground? I've given up waiting for Grimoire (but I still have that slight bit of hope).
 
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There was a picture of Cleve at the entrance floating around on the internet somewhere. IIRC, the entrance was tall enough for Cleve to stand straight up, so the entire structure must be pretty sizable.
 
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dteowner said:
There was a picture of Cleve at the entrance floating around on the internet somewhere. IIRC, the entrance was tall enough for Cleve to stand straight up, so the entire structure must be pretty sizable.
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There's a storm shelter down the road, while I'd not trust it to not collapse on me, had a full sized door set into the hill, before it rotted off. At 6'1", I can stand in the doorway easily. Inside was tight, and would not be comfortable for me to be in, especially with other people. Or for that matter, with it deteriorating to the point I was afraid of collapse.
 
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I took a picture of Cleve inside it which used to be in the Dot archives for the game. Not sure if they were ever transferred here, but I might still have a copy of it somewhere on my HD.
 
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