What cRPGs to look forward to?

NewDArt said:
I don't think he's talking about accurate grammar - but about writing in terms of story and narrative.

I'm pretty sure you can have a qualified opinion about good writing even when you don't master the language yourself.
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Eh, sorry, that does not compute for me. You need a certain level of fluency before you're able to judge the quality of the writing in another language. I know a bit of French, but I don't feel like I am able to judge the quality of French literature.
If the localization is crap, that is going to impact how you perceive the writing quality, regardless of how well the original text is. The text conveys the story and narrative, after all: both grammar and vocabulary influence how the story is delivered.

Anyway, my apologies for the derail. I enjoyed AoD, but I understand it's not for everyone. To each their own.
 
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wiretripped said:
Eh, sorry, that does not compute for me. You need a certain level of fluency before you're able to judge the quality of the writing in another language. I know a bit of French, but I don't feel like I am able to judge the quality of French literature.
If the localization is crap, that is going to impact how you perceive the writing quality, regardless of how well the original text is. The text conveys the story and narrative, after all: both grammar and vocabulary influence how the story is delivered.

Anyway, my apologies for the derail. I enjoyed AoD, but I understand it's not for everyone. To each their own.
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Again, this isn't grammar or the ability to comprehend every single word. It's the ability to understand the narrative. Meaning, do you understand the plot, the characters and their motivations? Then you're well on the way.

Fluency isn't really something that comes in levels. Either you're fluent or you're not.

My point is that you don't need to be fluent - or even close to fluent - to perceive whether a story is good or not.

A "bit of French" is hardly going to cut it, though. You need to know enough to actually read and understand a story. But the details aren't terribly important.

Dasale is obviously capable of determining if a story written in English is any good - in his opinion.

Discounting his opinion of the story because he doesn't write perfect English sounds more like ignorance or bigotry than an informed position, to my mind.

Would you rather trust the opinion of story writing from a 10 year old boy who was fluent in English than a 50 year old Polish expert in literature who struggled with fluent English?
 
Sorry DArt, not going to play your game. I'm sure you're capable of finding someone else to dance with. :)
 
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wiretripped said:
Sorry DArt, not going to play your game. I'm sure you're capable of finding someone else to dance with. :)
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What's surprising is that you have zero clue about what he means.

It shows your life is just using one language, you can't realize so don't judge what you have no clue about.

Even for work I read a huge amount of English and I do it very well. I could do without bother write well the awful crap that is English, don't look further. And even add a huge lazyness of not caring a post isn't understand, so I never re read more than some quick non careful check. I just want be sure grammar nazi don't understand anything from my posts, grammar nazi are boredom people and it's boredom to argue with them. :)
 
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Dasale said:
What's surprising is that you have zero clue about what he means.

It shows your life is just using one language, you can't realize so don't judge what you have no clue about.

Even for work I read a huge amount of English and I do it very well. I could do without bother write well the awful crap that is English, don't look further. And even add a huge lazyness of not caring a post isn't understand, so I never re read more than some quick non careful check. I just want be sure grammar nazi don't understand anything from my posts, grammar nazi are boredom people and it's boredom to argue with them. :)
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... Am I the only one feeling extreme negativity in Dasale's posts of late? What is with this hurling of insults everywhere?
 
purpleblob said:
… Am I the only one feeling extreme negativity in Dasale's posts of late? What is with this hurling of insults everywhere?
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I think much of the "hate" toward Dasale is unwarranted. Though I dont disagree with the current argument. It is one thing for a fluent English speaker to critique an English story, but another for someone who doesnt have complete comprehension of the language. ME:A's dialogue wasnt solid, but it wont be seen by anyone who isnt fluid in the English language. AoD uses tougher language and therefore harder to read by those not fluid in the English language and therefore would not be liked as much.

Now I dont know how fluent Dasale is with the English language though, most of the language we use here is very simple.
 
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Dasale said:
I think you have misinterpreted his meaning.

Perhaps this reflects your lack of wider language, I won't hold it against you.

I read and write proficiently but would prefer a more nuanced language than English with which to express myself. I must admit I do not read carefully the posts of others to check for understanding. Your lack of understanding does not bother me, it is rather more that I will not argue with nit picking grammar bores as I find it a waste of my time. Good day. :)
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I rewrote it for you kind sir. ;)
 
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Yes, Dasale has a tendency to go on tirades when he's in blind crusader mode - like many others around here. Not sure what happened, as I don't remember having quite so many of these auto-pilot anti-almost-everything people on the Watch in the past.

But, like most of the others, he's got some good points when he's calm :)

In any case, I don't think it's reasonable to confuse the message with the messenger. No reason to be a bigot because of his writing style.
 
Dasale said:
What's surprising is that you have zero clue about what he means.
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So because I disagree I must be clueless, huh?

Anyway, posts you have to make an effort for to decipher make me cringe, honestly. Especially at this level, which is why I question the ability for one that writes like this to be a judge of "writing quality" (in English). It's not inconceivable to miss the finer points of a language if you're not well versed in it, is it?
"Writing quality" might mean different things for different people: it's not just the grammar for me, or the content, but also the prose and the way a text "flows".

Dasale said:
It shows your life is just using one language, you can't realize so don't judge what you have no clue about.
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Try again, dude. I am not a native English speaker myself. Since my wife is American, I spend about 50% of my time speaking my native language, the other 50% speaking English. I also speak a bit of French, but I would not claim to be fluent.
 
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Can't help but notice this thread has gone completely off topic…

So it just came to my attention that there is a Pathfinder CRPG in development. If combat is TB then I am very interested. If it's RTwP, then I can safely ignore it.
 
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purpleblob said:
… Am I the only one feeling extreme negativity in Dasale's posts of late? What is with this hurling of insults everywhere?
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Open moderating, well done. I do hope you don't manage any team.
 
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NewDArt said:
Yes, Dasale has a tendency to go on tirades when he's in blind crusader mode - like many others around here. Not sure what happened, as I don't remember having quite so many of these auto-pilot anti-almost-everything people on the Watch in the past.

But, like most of the others, he's got some good points when he's calm :)

In any case, I don't think it's reasonable to confuse the message with the messenger. No reason to be a bigot because of his writing style.
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Some anonymous nick name on a forum don't need more respect than any dev, same thing.

I read so many insults and aggressiveness about dev so I deduced it was a fine behavior in this forum, and I love play this game. So.

It won't change that insult dev, fine, don't expect no insult in return.
 
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And as it's open bar for open moderating on myself, I'll argue that yeah my behavior changed when the hateboys started cumulate and harass anything Bioware was doing, not sure it was just Codexers migration, more a more general toxicity increase around RPG. Get banned forever at end. And since that let be honest I stopped have this forum in my heart and seriously don't care of it.

But a missclick when choosing list of names to connect made me realized that bizarrely I got unbanned after probably 8 years. Could be a bug, lol.
 
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Dude, this is not the Bioware fan forums (EA closed those down). There are plenty of people who like Bioware games here. However, some people are going to criticize Bioware games here because not everyone loves Bioware games as much as you do. Doesn't make us "hateboys", just means we have different tastes / standards than you. Get. Over. It.
 
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Dasale said:
Some anonymous nick name on a forum don't need more respect than any dev, same thing.

I read so many insults and aggressiveness about dev so I deduced it was a fine behavior in this forum, and I love play this game. So.

It won't change that insult dev, fine, don't expect no insult in return.
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I'm afraid I don't follow your logic. You react to insults and aggressiveness with more insults and aggressiveness, and that - to you - is a sound plan?

Interesting :)

To each his own.
 
That said, it's true that a lot of what you could call haters (cynical, blind and sad people, I would perhaps call them instead) have entered the forums of late. Must have happened while I was gone, because I don't remember the ratio being that unfavorable.

Interesting that such a thing should happen after turning up the heat on moderation?

Oh well.
 
NewDArt said:
That said, it's true that a lot of what you could call haters (cynical, blind and sad people, I would perhaps call them instead) have entered the forums of late. Must have happened while I was gone, because I don't remember the ratio being that unfavorable.

Interesting that such a thing should happen after turning up the heat on moderation?

Oh well.
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No your right, it's definitely gotten worse since you left. Most of them just troll and don't engage in prolonged discussion, so it's not a big deal and doesn't disrupt most threads. But it's still annoying.
 
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