Ultima IV - Unplayable @ The Brainy Gamer

Meaning young people are more comfortable with technology so they don't see a good reason to struggle to 'tame' it.

(also: I've heard of paper before but what on earth is an errazur?)

GothicGothicness said:

I thought that was the definition of lazy

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Yeah, we're all lazy - making the concept rather meaningless in many ways

DArtagnan said:

Yeah, and people from previous generations would consider people who had access to an eraser, lazy. In the past, you had to rewrite everything if you messed up.

It's not about being lazy, it's about being human.

Human beings, generally, do what they need to do - and no more.

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Its all okay as long as there are people who know how to make erasers. In the film idiocracy majority of population starts to gradually become dummer and ever dimishing minority is forced to try to keep everything together.

Of course that could never happen irl (communism excluded?). People are usually very inventive when they are forced to.

Yeah, we're all lazy - making the concept rather meaningless in many ways

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Really, I know a lot of people who are anything buy lazy... so that means there is some meaning to the word anyway......

Its all okay as long as there are people who know how to make erasers. In the film idiocracy majority of population starts to gradually become dummer and ever dimishing minority is forced to try to keep everything together.

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Sounds cool..... maybe I'll buy it!

GothicGothicness said:

Really, I know a lot of people who are anything buy lazy… so that means there is some meaning to the word anyway

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No, you know people you wouldn't personally define as lazy, but that's because you overlook the areas in which they're lazy.

That makes the word meaningful to you.

But it IS meaningful, because we're all lazy in DIFFERENT ways. Some people invest themselves entirely into their job, and as such they appear "not lazy" compared with people who invest themselves entirely into their families - for instance. But we all have limited resources, and that means there has to be a sacrifice somewhere.

Naturally, all of this is my opinion.

If you really believe there are people who're genuinely "lazy" or "not lazy", I won't take that away.

With your reasoning.... all words would become meaningless....

GothicGothicness said:

With your reasoning…. all words would become meaningless….

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Nah, not really.

They just wouldn't have the same easy-to-digest meanings that you seem to prefer

There are no dragons in U4 you n00b!!! Sorry, couldn't help it and you sort of asked for it. :-D

But regarding interface. I didn't find it that difficult, although it's of course no icons and mouse clicks. So you had to read part of the manual, the page containing keyborad commeands. After all, in most games I use keyboard shortcuts.

I guess I'm getting old.

GothicGothicness said:

I thought that was the definition of lazy

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To not be lazy is then to do what you do not need to do?

I would suggest being lazy is to do less than you should.

The idea that hard work is a virtue, regardless of the product, is irrational.

pibbur said:

There are no dragons in U4 you n00b!!! Sorry, couldn't help it and you sort of asked for it. :-D

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That's alright… I was almost certain that someone would do it

pibbur said:

But regarding interface. I didn't find it that difficult, although it's of course no icons and mouse clicks. So you had to read part of the manual, the page containing keyborad commeands. After all, in most games I use keyboard shortcuts.

I guess I'm getting old.

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It's not that I find it 'difficult' as such.
After all my job involves being able to use from scratch any program or scripting language you might throw at me… and I've been doing that on my own successfully and happily for money and/or fun for 20 years.
It's just that when I'm looking for more-or-less pure entertainment, there are many less 'troublesome' alternatives.

——-

Seriously, about those dumb lazy kids… is using an eraser actually more 'hard work' and more complicated than using a word processor?

LuckyCarbon said:

Can you make an argument that non-combat games with lots of NPC interaction that was story based aren't as popular with todays kids used to playing Halo?

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Back then, LucasArts cancelled their second Sam & Max game with the "reason" that ALL european adventure game players were suddenly gone.

Since then on, they only did action games.

Production seemed to be going well, but in March 2004, Freelance Police was unexpectedly cancelled. "I can still remember the chill that went down my spine when our marketing department informed me that the entire population of European adventure game players had, over the course of less than three months, died," says Stemmle. "You'd think a massacre of such proportions would've been reported more widely." LucasArts officially attributed the decision to "current marketplace realities" and "underlying economic conditions" and, in one fell swoop, caused Sam & Max fans around the world to weep. Openly.

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Source : http://www.telltalegames.com/summerofsamandmax/history/history4b

To not be lazy is then to do what you do not need to do?

I would suggest being lazy is to do less than you should.

The idea that hard work is a virtue, regardless of the product, is irrational.

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Here we go again less than you should? what would that mean in that case? is what you should do in one day eat and sleep? that is indeed enough to keep alive.. this way the only person to be lazy is someone who is dead.....

Nah, not really.

They just wouldn't have the same easy-to-digest meanings that you seem to prefer

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The entire point of word is that we make a fairly common definition of them which most people can identify by.. if you have your very own special definition of each and every word that'll mean none can understand you except yourself thus making your words meaningless to others.

GothicGothicness said:

Here we go again less than you should? what would that mean in that case? is what you should do in one day eat and sleep? that is indeed enough to keep alive.. this way the only person to be lazy is someone who is dead…..

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Simple. Whatever the one using the word "lazy" believe you should do.

GothicGothicness said:

Haha, well isn't this ironic…. I think the reason that young people of today are getting more and more lazy…. is…. *drumroll* computers and cellphones. Without them we couldn't even play games in the first place....

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You forgot the Calculator.

When I got to the University (Computer Sciences), I didn't have the right to use the calculator for maths examen (you know Algebra, Calculus, etc). It took a few months to get used to calculate fractions for a 5x5 matrix by hand, but after 1 year, you didn't need the calculator to help you count.

GothicGothicness said:

The entire point of word is that we make a fairly common definition of them which most people can identify by.. if you have your very own special definition of each and every word that'll mean none can understand you except yourself thus making your words meaningless to others.

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Do you really believe that by stating what you think the point of a word is, gives you the power to decide what it REALLY is?

My own personal perception of why we have words, is because we need to communicate.

Now, to effectively communicate - I think it's important that we have similar definitions of the words in question.

That's why I think about what the most rational definition would be, and not some kind of simplified and completely illogical definition that helps people hold their little worlds together. I have to assume everyone wants to get at the truth, rather than comfortable delusions that place people in tiny little boxes, like the "lazy-box" because some guy decides his place of work isn't the center of his life.

Nah, I'd rather go for something that deals with reality - as I see it. In real life, people are not "lazy" because you think of their focus as non-important. If, for instance, some guy uses all the conveniences at his disposal - so he can work as little as possible, it doesn't implicitly make him lazy.

So, if your definition of being lazy is that they don't work hard - or something silly like that - I'd have to say you have a serious problem comprehending concepts from a rational point of view.

Such as what Jemy was talking about.

Dajjer said:

Some classics just don't stand the test of time.

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Yes. But no-one ever implemented a thing like "Virtues". No-one. The closest thing we have in games nowadays is "reputation", or even rarer: "Karma".

The current games are made so that they allow everything, without any sense, any tiniest bit bit of responsibility. Games are made so that you can do whatever you want without being charged for responsibility for anything. Blowing up innocents is generally allowed without any penalty.

There is no such thing as a "role model" as well. What you "learn" through these games is basically this : You can do what you want, and no-one is charging you for your "mistakkes". Because since you are allowed to do what you want, there are in principle no "mistakes" at all. They just don't exist in games, by definition.

I' thinking o action games, when I write this.

And a thing like being an avatar ... Wich is the last game where you have to be a role model ? Nowhere. Everything that counts is acting according to your own needs and greed, or whatever. What OTHERS want, is absolutely unimportant, at least in games.

I see this against the growing belief-system of "sich selbst der Nächste sein", one translation I found is this : "it's every man for himself". The own needs are what is important; soviety, social things come last. This is just a trip of egoism, at its purest.

And games support that, kind of. With cutting any sense of responsibility and the need for being a role-model.

Do you really believe that by stating what you think the point of a word is, gives you the power to decide what it REALLY is?

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No, but we have words for a reason the official definition of the word lazy is

"Resistant to work or exertion; disposed to idleness." ( that was not made by me but rather by people behined defining the english language )

So this particular word is according to the official definition used as a way to describe a resistance to working.

If you think the word lazy is pointless and this definition is also pointless that is ok, but the majority of the people use the word for what it is defined to mean, and when you say the word they also intercept it as the way they were taught this word means.

For example if you would call someone on the street

"You are an ugly whore" and by this you have in your world defined ugly as beautiful and whore as a person who is extremely intelligent. The majority is still going to be insulted by what you said because they have learned a certain definition of the words ugly and whore.

GothicGothicness said:

No, but we have words for a reason the official definition of the word lazy is

"Resistant to work or exertion; disposed to idleness."

So this particular word is according to the official definition used as a way to describe a resistance to working.

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Work OR Exertion. For some reason, you think that a job is the only kind of exertion, don't you?

There's also mental exertion, isn't there?

Being idle isn't the same as not working.

If you think the word lazy is pointless and this definition is also pointless that is ok, but the majority of the people use the word for what it is defined to mean, and when you say the word they also intercept it as the way they were taught this word means.

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I didn't say it was pointless. I said it was pointless in many ways - like in many ways that people who're ignorant about it use it.

It's meaningful to describe in WHAT WAY people are lazy, but not as an overall label to be placed because someone doesn't "exert himself" to your satisfaction.

It's meaningless, because it's my claim that we're ALL lazy about one thing or another, it's simply about what's important to us.

"You are an ugly whore" and by this you have in your world defined ugly as beautiful and whore as a person who is extremely intelligent. The majority is still going to be insulted by what you said because they have learned a certain definition of the words ugly and whore.

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Ehm, that would be a strange definition.

I'm interested in rational definitions and rational approaches to concepts.

Such as lazy not being specifically about your commitment to your job.

Even so, if 9 out of 10 people use words irrationally - I don't really care. It's about getting the message across clearly, not re-enforcing a misunderstanding.

I don't really mind people not understanding - as long as there's a slight chance they might think about the rational approach.

One day, down the line, you'll have changed your approach to the word lazy - because I'm helping you see why it's not healthy right now.

Right?

I am too lazy to continue this discussion.. but it was fun while it lasted

gothicgothicness said:

i am too lazy to continue this discussion.. But it was fun while it lasted

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you're the most lazy person evar!!!!!