Top 10 CRPGs of all time

Not all of these are MY favorites, but...

Ultima: It sold 9 games and launched a successful MMO
Might and Magic: It also sold 9 games and launched a strategy title that has sold 7 games, most of which are more successful than the crpgs.
Wizardry: That title launched 8 games and also created a huge following in Japan
The Elder Scrolls: This is the top selling single player rpg series of all time. It is also one of the top selling computer titles of all genres.
Baldur's Gate: This game basically revived the crpg genre at a time when it looked dead.
Diablo: This game launched a whole new sub-genre.
Path of Exile: Just personal opinion here, but an amazing game that is free yet continues to rake in enough money to keep an unending supply of updates and improvements to itself.
Pools of Radiance: Another game to launch over a dozen titles in the famed and beloved Gold Box Games by SSI.
Neverwinter Nights (2): This series created the mod scene for the RPG enthusiast. There were mods before Neverwinter Nights, but it exploded and became a thing because of this game series.

I wasn't sure what to put for 10. I thought about Exile; Jeff Vogel's beginning entry into the longest-lasting indie career in the crpg world. There's probably another game/series that is just as potent. Fallout? It's good, but I'm not sure it rates up with the rest of these.

NWN2?? NWN2 never ever reach the mod scene creativity NWN1 had. As it's the last it could has cumulate a bit more but too much spread on many years.

In my tablets quantity isn't a quality, a series that sells better doesn't make it better.

From number of votes cumulated less than a decade ago, here what series emerged from the posts:
Gothic
Ultima
Baldur's Gate
Fallout
Elder Scroll
Wizardy
Neverwinter Nights
Might&Magic
Realms of Arkania
Kotor

I don't think it would be the same now, but it's interesting to compare to your list. Nowadays I bet Divinity and The Witcher would emerge, RoA and Kotor would most probably disappear, Gothic would be a lot lower if even still in list, and with a high negavity around Bioware at least in this forum, probably neither DA nor ME would emerge.

I am not sure expansion packs count or not so I broke them out into their own section of favorite expansion packs.

These are not in any particular order. Also if asked at another time it could change as I have played many games and its hard to sometimes pull them all up in memory and try to rate them. Many are nostalgic. I have played so many games and I tend to like them all ... otherwise I wouldn't play them. So basically going with ones that stand out in memory that I really enjoyed.

CORE GAMES:

Baldurs Gate 1
Baldurs Gate 2
NWN 2 (also NWN 1 but that would put me at 11 games)
Darklands
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura
Morrowind
Skyrim
Pools of Radiance
Fallout 4
Dragon Age Origins

With special mention for Fallout New Vegas, the HOMM and MM series, KotoR, EQ, and WOW.

FAVORITE EXPANSIONS:
Baldurs Gate: Throne of Bhaal
NWN: Mask of the Betrayer
Morrowind": Bloodmoon

Someone with enough time on their hands could go through these 45 pages and create an RPGWatch top CRPGs of all time

It occurred to me that there will never be a definitive top 10. For one thing every year new games are introduced and younger folks perspective on games over time shifts the view. This of course ignores the fact that even among older folks the view is divergent. Today BG might be in the top 10 list but will it be in 10 more years ?

Maybe I should bring back the option to rate games in our database, like we had at RPGDot, with the difference that this time only registered members with a minimum post count can vote.

Fully agreed, Myrthos

Since I never was a RPGDot member, I'd really like to rate games here.

Result of some votes is just an average, moreover I'm seeing coming the 0/5 rates for Bioware RPG, sigh. A list by someone is generally more meaningful.

Dasale said:

Result of some votes is just an average, moreover I'm seeing coming the 0/5 rates for Bioware RPG, sigh. A list by someone is generally more meaningful.

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Nah, a lot of folk have Bioware games on their top ten lists, which refelects their popularity I think. I've been a bit down on Bioware's recent releases but still have three of their games in my top ten . I think it works out overall, more or less.

edit: although yeah ultimately it would be an average of what rpgwatchers think, not a definite judgement on quality. But that's fine - I come to this site and listen to views for a reason.

Edit #2: too many beers tonight. but yeah my final point is that yours right that nothing beats a list from an individual that you respect. And on that note I'm off to lie down for a bit.

The problem I have with creating a top 10 is that it implies no.1 is somehow significantly better than no.9, even though a top 10 will usually just be a list of games that are particularly personally memorable whereby none are really 'better', but, rather each games offers something slightly different depending on what you're in the mood to play.

I suppose I'd prefer something like a tiered system of judgement, where the top tier is games that are particularly noteworthy, the second tier is games that were enjoyable while playing but don't specifically insight great affection, the third tier being games that induced an attempt but something didn't feel right, possibly causing a cessation of playing and a fourth and final category of games that just repelled one into quitting out of sheer dissatisfaction.

My top tier games would be:

For D&D goodness:

Icewind Dale
Hordes of the Underdark

For action oriented excitement:

Divine Divinity
Dragon Age Origins: Awakening

For independent novelty:

Serpents in the Staglands
Avernum 1

For the best foreign interpretation:

Drakensang: The River of Time
King's Bounty: The Legend

For best post-game reflection:

Planescape: Torment

And that's just 9 games that make my top tier. For no.10 I'd have to include my entire selection of second tier games, which is a very large list, ranging from other entries in the above series, such as IWD2, DA:O, KB:AP/C, Avadon, SotU to standalone titles such as Paper Sorcerer, Path of Exile, Nox and a whole heap of other stuff that passes through my memory like a sieve. I wouldn't be fair to any one of these games to exclude the others just for the sake of making a round 10.

My lists are also biased from my preference for fantasy, preference for PC and therefore also weak experience with jRPGs and no great interest in MMOs/multiplyer with most of my games played in off-line mode, and a psychological phobia of anything made before 1995ish (pre-windows generally, 3.1 excluded). So my list could change over the next 10 years based not only on new games but also because I've broken one of the above phobias.

And I could well have forgotten about a game I'll remember next week.

My main issue with these lists is that human experience by its very nature, is extremely narrow and the phrase "of all time" sounds quite intimidating! I've still got so many games yet to experience both past and present - how can I know with certainty that they won't make the list? In short, I don't. Thus, a top 10 really is more like "my favourite 10 cRPGs" at this particular point in time.

That said, reading the viewpoints of everyone posting in this thread over the years (some more than once or twice to change or update said lists) has always been of interest, as reading about the reasons why people like the games they play is one of the essential reasons I come to the 'Watch.

I rather like Myrthos' idea a few posts up: maybe some volunteers can pool the votes and split the task accordingly into segments. More hands make light work after all!

Pongo said:

Nah, a lot of folk have Bioware games on their top ten lists, which refelects their popularity I think. I've been a bit down on Bioware's recent releases but still have three of their games in my top ten . I think it works out overall, more or less.

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Pessimeister said:

Thus, a top 10 really is more like "my favourite 10 cRPGs" at this particular point in time.

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Ultimately it's always a matter of favorites even if you had played fully every single RPG released.

Pessimeister said:

I rather like Myrthos' idea a few posts up: maybe some volunteers can pool the votes and split the task accordingly into segments. More hands make light work after all!

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I did one, stopped count the posts few after release of The Witcher 1 and Mass Effect 1.

For games:
269,5 Baldur's Gate 2
230,5 Gothic 1
225,5 Planescape Torment
206 Gothic 2
186 Fallout 2
171 Fallout 1
133,5 Ultima 7
126,5 Morrowind
108,5 Wizardy 8
99,5 Baldur's Gate 1
98,5 Kotor 1
96,5 Arcanum
85 Ultima Underworld 1
81 Neverwinter Night 1
77,5 Deus Ex
74 Realms of Arkania II
72 Betrayal at Krondor
70 Daggerfall
67 Vampire Bloodlines
66 Gothic 3
64,5 Ultima Underworld 2
58,5 Baldur's Gate 2: Throne of Bhaal
58 Icewind Dale 1
51,5 Ultima 4
49,5 Divine Divinity
47,5 Wizardy 7
46,5 Dungeon Master 1
45,5 System Shock 2
45 Might and Magic 6
43,5 Ultima 5

For series:
Gothic 517,5
Ultima 483
Baldur's Gate 431
Fallout 357
Elder Scroll 235
Wizardy 187,5
Neverwinter Nights 141,5
Might&Magic 138
Kotor 136,5
Realms of Arkania 130,5

EDIT: Frankly I felt that after have the results shown, influenced some of the further posts during a short time and it discouraged me try an update.

Did it was very fun and quite an adventure (it's also reading some arguing, if not some struggles, the explanation comments, more), but no way I'll redo it.

Pessimeister said:

Thus, a top 10 really is more like "my favourite 10 cRPGs" at this particular point in time.

That said, reading the viewpoints of everyone posting in this thread over the years (some more than once or twice to change or update said lists) has always been of interest, as reading about the reasons why people like the games they play is one of the essential reasons I come to the 'Watch.

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I think that is the whole point, it is interesting to see how people's top 10 cRPGs change over time, particularly your own taste as well. I see that for most of people's list change due to old titles getting knocked off top 10 by new challengers but they still love the old titles that these are separately listed in "honorable mentions". It's really interesting to read reasons why new challengers were preferred over some of older favourites.

Also, I discovered a few new titles I never heard of or thinking of trying by reading people's top 10

My problem would be that there are several ways to evaluate quality, in my mind.

There's the purely subjective way - which is more or less about "where I was" both mentally and emotionally when I played the game - and what I got out of it on a personal level.

The opposite way would be to look at games objectively - and through an informed lens - where you take into account the time of release, level of innovation, evolutionary stage of established features - and so on. I might not personally care "all that much" for certain games, but I can definitely recognise why they were ahead of their time.

Then, there's the mixture - where you include games of both kinds.

Now, I realise these lists aren't meant to be taken seriously - and it's just a bunch of statements by CRPG fans.

But I prefer doing things that make a little more sense and which could be of a little more use.

So, for that to work we'd all have to agree exactly what we were talking about

purpleblob said:

I think that is the whole point, it is interesting to see how people's top 10 cRPGs change over time, particularly your own taste as well. I see that for most of people's list change due to old titles getting knocked off top 10 by new challengers but they still love the old titles that these are separately listed in "honorable mentions". It's really interesting to read reasons why new challengers were preferred over some of older favourites.

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Exactly. And for some of us it's really hard to even make it just a top 10, not a top 15 or top 20, because of all the RPGs we've already played. That being said, ask me again in a year or two, when the rain, er, downpour of really promising indie RPGs is over, and I've played most of them. I'm almost certain that my list will change at least a little. That's why I like to see threads like this be dug up again every couple of months or even years.
Still, some games will always keep this special place in my heart, even if they're several decades old by now. (See Realms of Arkania, Barldur's Gate Saga, Arcanum, Arx Fatalis, Fallout 1 and 2, Planescape: Torment or Anachronox.) They'll always be at least in my top 10 of honorable mentions, because they're something very special to me. And they're still great, apart from the graphics.

Excuse me, I really need to finish my work and daily chores, so I can play in the early evening, because now I'm longing for adventures to experience.

What a wonderful topic! I greatly enjoyed reading everyone’s lists, so I’ve decided to share mine. Here is my top 10 list, organized chronologically.
The formative years…

#4 - The Bards Tale - I still have great and vivid memories of this game after all these years. Ordering the wine to open the first dungeon. The crystal sword. This game is most responsible for igniting my love of the PC RPG genre. Loved the combat, the idea of a party of adventures, the exploration and puzzles. Was hard to leave out of my top 3.

#7 - Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar - This game sucked me into its world (the world of Britannia) with interesting people and gave the player the ability to interact with the NPCs. And of course the unique goal/premise of the game with true role playing.

#3 - Pool of Radiance - Probably my best PC gaming memories ever in terms of nostalgia. Huddled around my friend’s computer eating domino’s pizza, drinking Dr. Pepper and playing this game – rolling up a party of adventurers with awesome names. This game introduced me to D&D in a PC game, which is my all-time favorite game setting.

Then there was a long break from computer games, with a glorious return to…

#1 - Baldur’s Gate 2: Shadows of Amn - My #1 game of all time. The reason this is my favorite is I feel it executed a 9 or 10 out of 10 in each of the major RPG elements: combat/encounters, character progression/leveling (based on D&D which as I’ve said is my favorite), story, balance between main story and side quests (or openness vs. linear quest progression). I am biased because this is the first game I played after coming back to PC games, and the improvement in graphics and design vs. my early gaming years blew me away. There were many moments I absolutely loved in this game.

Another shorter break from PC games, a trip to MMO land (Guild Wards, DDO, LotRO to be specific), and then…

#8 - Elder Scrolls: Oblivion - This was the first Elder Scrolls I picked up after seeing at a friend’s house. Was totally amazed by the immersive feel and open world. Probably would have had the same feeling if I had picked up Morrowind earlier or Skyrim later. Finding the assassin’s guild area and playing that faction is one of my favorite gaming memories.

#2 - Dragon Age: Origins - My #2 all time after Baldur’s Gate 2. I felt someone finally made a party-based, fantasy-setting RPG that recaptured the feeling of Baldur’s Gate 2 for me. Great character creation with unique story depending on race/class. Great story and NPC interactions. And I loved the combat and encounters, where I felt I needed to think about party make-up and skills to utilize. End game consequences depending on how you advanced the story. I didn’t think the cut scenes were over the top either, but were well done and added richness to the story. This one had it all for me. This title also caused my biggest RPG disappointment of all time…Dragon Age II.

#9 - Mass Effect 2 - l loved this one for many of the same reasons I loved Dragon Age, but more action oriented and in space. I had played Kotor and liked it, but for some reason Mass Effect stood out much more to me. I thought the story and the NPCs were top notch. A little too much action vs. party tactics for me personally, which is why I wouldn’t put in my top five. Was definitely my favorite Mass Effect game (I have not played Andromeda, nor plan to in the near future).

#10 - Divinity: Original Sin - I’m not sure this one deserve a top 10 spot, but here it is. I think this title benefits from the fact that I had very low expectations when I picked it up, I had no prior experience with other Divinity games, and it just massively crushed those expectations. This is one of my all-time favorites in terms of tactical combat without throwing away story, fun NPCs and setting. Loved the implementation of turn-based combat. I also loved some of the exploration elements (for example you if you wandered into an area before you had the proper level you got crushed, and you had to explore around a bit to find story elements). I even loved messing around trying to combine random inventory items. I also personally loved the “vibe” of the setting. It wasn’t overly serious or too dark or brooding. It brought some of the cheesy and fun elements back from some of classic titles listed above (contrasted for example with Pillars of Eternity which was released at the same time).

#5/6 - Witcher 3: The Wild Hunt (and frankly the whole 3-game franchise) - Witcher 3 was so incredible. I was completely absorbed by the story, but it still felt like an RPG/game and not completely a PC-based movie. Obviously gets no nostalgia bonus points given recent release, and I also prefer the party based model vs. the single PC action RPG model, but this one was an instant classic for me. And I haven’t even played all of the expansions! I had a hard time thinking about these games independently, so I just lamely gave them 2 spots on my list. I first discovered the Witcher series when they release #2, and I purchased #1 at the same time and forced myself to play in order. I loved 1 & 2, and 3 was the crowning jewel. I think 2 would definitely be in on my top 10 list, but not exactly sure where (maybe not as high as #6 for example). I think CD Projekt Red did the best job blending action-style combat with RPG elements. And I was enchanted by the REDengine – the game world on modern hardware looked incredible.

---------

To put my list in better context, I’ll take the liberty of pointing out why some other obvious candidates aren’t on here.

To start…here are the games I’ve played that are likely consensus classics, but sadly I played them much later after their release dates, and therefore couldn’t help feeling I missed the boat in terms of experiencing their original awesomeness.

Baldur’s Gate 1

Icewind Dale 1 & 2

Planescape: Torment (close to top 10, incredibly unique story)

Then there are games that are consensus classics that sadly I’ve never played, and just seem too old for me to go back and play now. Basically my list of missed opportunities.

Fallout 1 & 2

Morrowind (I’m too burnt out on this Bethesda formula to revisit)

Arcanum (I’ve almost pulled the trigger on this one a few times)

Masquerade Bloodlines

Gothic 1 & 2

And finally…here are my honorable mentions - games I’ve played and loved, but just not worthy of my top 10 list:

Neverwinter Nights 2 (I wanted this to be Baldur’s Gate 3 so badly, but it wasn’t, and I never stopped being angry about it! But Mask of the Betrayer was great fun)
Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic I & II (I remember liking both of these quite a bit, but for some reason can’t remember anything specific, so for that reason can’t put in my top 10)

Mass Effect 1 (I just felt 2 was much better, but I loved this game)

Elder Scrolls: Skyrim (The novelty factor of the open world had worn off a bit since Oblivion. But a great, great game)

Fallout 3 and New Vegas (Same as above…I was just burnt out on the Bethesda formula and engine)

Dark Souls (Very close to making my top 10, but I couldn’t play it without cheating with an online guide, which made me feel lame, which makes me not want to put in my top 10. But a very unique and cool action RPG)

bizorker said:

Neverwinter Nights 2 (I wanted this to be Baldur’s Gate 3 so badly, but it wasn’t, and I never stopped being angry about it! But Mask of the Betrayer was great fun)

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Oh me jesus h, don't tell me you've never played Hordes of the Underdark either?

lackblogger said:

Oh me jesus h, don't tell me you've never played Hordes of the Underdark either?

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I haven't. Do I need to rectify that situation?

bizorker said:

I haven't. Do I need to rectify that situation?

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Hordes has wonderful companions, amazing dungeons, is pure old school dungeoneering, amazing character building, top drawer monster variety, perfectly planned level design. It's one of those games where you've actually got to think to get through it, but with Hordes it doesn't compensate with a reduced pace or fun factor, it stays on full throttle for the duration.

If you don't want to throw yourself in at the deep end then it's prequel, Shadows of the Undrentide is a fairly chilled campaign to get you up to level and get you used to the Deekin companion, but you can just launch yourself into Hordes if you want, if you're used to quickly levelling to 15 in 3rd ed D&D before you start.

Hordes allows you up to two companions AFAIK and if you decide to use the talking Longsword (assuming you find it) it can feel like a 4 man troupe. You don't lose out on any fun by not using it but, like Deekin (who'll be there even if you didn't use him in the first game), if it's your first run then those two just add icing to the cake.

I'd say, aside from BG2 (and possibly including BG2), its Bioware's best dungeon designed game in their history.

Edit: if you play with companions then best to use the difficulty level which doesn't kill companions once battle is over. The second difficulty IIRC. Hardcore rules are only really feasible for solo play.

HotU is definitely worth playing but I have a bit different opinion to lackblogger. BG2 is far more superior in every level - companions, level designs, combat etc. While 3rd ed is considered far better than 2nd ed AD&D, NWN combat in general plays like solo since you cant take a full control of companions which also applies to HotU. Besides, first chapter is pure dungeon crawling and available companions are boring besides Deekin. Second chapter is mini version of BG2 underdark, nothing spectacular there but you get better companions. Third chapter is absolutely fantastic though.