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March 18th, 2020, 23:00
Hey fellow watchers,

I just want to hear your opinion and see if you encounter the same problems….. I have a huge backlog of games and have the following difficulty…

Somehow I`ve come to the point that the whole decision/playing your protagonist "in role" thing (trying to find the right solution for a quest, choosing between right or wrong, etc) in nowadays games, especially RPGs, is really preventing me from enjoying the games.. and really aggravates me….

I often feel like I am trapped in a moral decision, like the "deer in the headlights" an cannot choose and thus continue the game…. It is like geralts saying:
"If I have to choose between one evil and another I rather not choose at all….."

OftenI read walkthroughs just to check if I did everything right and If I have missed something due to my decisions….its really frustrating…

I often thus quit the game as I cannot decide and start the next one and here I go again, the next meaningful decision….

E.g. I started and didn`t continue deadfire, witcher III, Pathfinder, Blackguards, Technomancer….just to mention a few
An even If i choose something I always continue pondering if it was the right decision….

Has anyone encountered the same problem ?

Any tips on how to overcome that issue?

Regards,
M.
Last edited by Lannister; March 18th, 2020 at 23:15.
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March 18th, 2020, 23:17
You might enjoy this early top 10 youtube video duology on the topic of RPG dilemmas:

Part 1:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_LEbZ3ZSww

Part 2:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY0FI76nLiI
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March 18th, 2020, 23:58
I understand what you mean but I tend to play most games without looking at walkthroughs except in the case of pathfinder as it has timers whcih is the main reason I would not give the game a very good rating.

If you have problems with this, I suggest playing games with fewer options or shorter games where you can easily replay options.

For example, Might and Magic 7 basically only has a good or evil option. Every other option is just on how to develop your characters.

An example of a short game with many decisions is Age of Decadence. The game can be played within 10-20 hours depending on story/background you pick and type of character. It is meant to be replayed multiple times using different options to see the story.

Anyway, my two pence.
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March 19th, 2020, 00:56
Yep, same here.
So my method to still have fun is to always play twice the RPGs I like.

First run I let things go their own way without trying to keep control on everything, I make mistakes, miss a lot of things.
I generally play a warrior type class (depending on the setting).

Second run is more "controlled", I kind of play like my choices are canons (if that makes sense), I abuse save scumming if needed and use walkthroughs (also if needed).
I play a rogue type class.
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March 19th, 2020, 00:59
Originally Posted by Winterfart View Post
Yep, same here.
So my method to still have fun is to always play twice the RPGs I like.

First run I let things go their own way without trying to keep control on everything, I make mistakes, miss a lot of things.
I generally play a warrior type class (depending on the setting).

Second run is more "controlled", I kind of play like my choices are canons (if that makes sense), I abuse save scumming if needed and use walkthroughs (also if needed).
I play a rogue type class.
I would do something similar but I can't play most games multiple times unless they're short.
I.e. Pathfinder is taking me weeks to play. I will never, ever, ever reply this game.
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March 19th, 2020, 01:30
I find I am over-cautious and hang on to potions, buffs, spells, gear, worried that I might need them later.
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March 19th, 2020, 01:36
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
I.e. Pathfinder is taking me weeks to play. I will never, ever, ever reply this game.
Yeah, Pathfinder… I won't replay this game either.

It's pretty good but… timers and kingdom managment.
Not the pacing and style I want for my roguish traveling adventurer.
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March 19th, 2020, 03:00
Don't fret the decisions! They can make a difference to your content sometimes but game developers have gotten good with them. You will NOT lose the game because of them*. There often isn't a right and a wrong. Or sometimes there is but the outcome is completely unpredictable. It's OK, the developers know that and have (hopefully) designed the game accordingly. You'll still have fun.

* The big exception I can think of is Mass Effect. It's possible to actually get Shepard killed off at the end of the second game. If I remember right, though, to get that to happen you have to make a lot of decisions that indicate that you're probably not very interested in the game.

Originally Posted by Qayto View Post
I find I am over-cautious and hang on to potions, buffs, spells, gear, worried that I might need them later.
A lot of games give "point of no return" messages telling you the game is about to end - at which point you can go crazy. I went through a good 20lbs of heal points and scrolls in the last stages of Pathfinder: Kingmaker.

Other games will give you chests where you can store things away that you "might need later." You'll rarely take anything out of them but they sure are a nice psychological crutch. (Venders that never re-sell the gear you sell to them can be nice, too.)
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March 19th, 2020, 04:15
You should play Dark Souls and Sekiro and Elden Ring.
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March 20th, 2020, 11:18
Originally Posted by Lannister View Post
I often feel like I am trapped in a moral decision, like the "deer in the headlights" an cannot choose and thus continue the game…. It is like geralts saying:
"If I have to choose between one evil and another I rather not choose at all….."
Yeah, I can fully understand that. This "moral decisions" thing is to make games looking "more mature", and sometimes "more dark & gritty".
In my very personal opinion it's one of several symptoms of what I call the "heavymetalization of media".
Since I want games for sheer fun and escapism, I simply do not buy games which have these "moral decisions" in them anymore. I just don't like it. I want to refresh myself, "reload my batteries", and not being put into having to think "was my decision wrong ?" I always have bad feelings with that as well.

Since I hate that, I've decided to stick to games which make me feel good. My problem is, however, that there are fewer and fewer games doing exactly that.
Everything wants to be like the cover of an Heavy Metal album these days.

The very beginning of Pillars Of ternity I had left an especially bitter and bad taste in my mouth.
So does Bioware in SWTOR far too often : First building up an NPC, making it so, that you create kind of an "emotional bond" to that NPC - and then killing the NPC !
That had left a VERY VERY BAD taste in my mouth. Bioware's storyteller fell down several degrees in my personal respect for that "plot device" thing. And in the beginning of POE I,they did exactly the same !!!

One of my superiors, with whom I share the hobby of role-playing (although he is rather the GM/DM in a pen & paper group) told me of a certai companion in Kingmaker doing something rather unexpected and dark … It's almost as if the devs were playing with the player, so it felt to me.
I therefore decided not to take that companion with me when I start the game.


The result is that I test games very carefully whether they will force me to make these awful "moral decisions". Games shouldn't force the player into anything, imho. Games should imho give players the possibility to have a good time, not a headache. And that completely apart from the usual argument "but these are only pixels !" If these are only pixels, then why did developers make these things with "the pixels" in the first place ? Trolling the player or what ?

No, I've become picky.

Edit : I excessively use savegames when there are "decisions". I often reload if a decision puts me into a bad mood after its outcome.

Online games like SWTOR don't have savegames. That makes playing them especially bitter.
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March 21st, 2020, 17:34
Hey all thank you for your valuable input and thoughts…..

Somehow I sort of developed that problem in the last years…. prior to this I was content with my decision…. however with the increasing availability of walkthroughs and stuff i can always check if my decision was correct or if it lead to me passing a vital moment or plot ….

With regards to the recommendation of playing a game several times I sadly don-`t have the time for this anymore… commmuting, working usually 9-10 hours a days, frequent weekend shifts, family and kids…..

I was thinking about taking a break and playing shooters or anything non-rpg, however this is normally not my kind of genre….
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March 22nd, 2020, 08:12
The only problem I have is the fear of missing out on great content. And it is a great fear. If it is a good developer then it is more easy to trust each decision will lead to some fun gameplay.

This includes story decisions, but also classes you play.
- Seemingly innocent decisions early on leading to a full lockout of certain story aspects.
- It is often clear that some classes are just added for the sake of having more. For that reason I checkout the most fun classes to play upfront, while playing I try to not look things up.
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March 22nd, 2020, 09:30
It might seem counter-intuitive, but maybe playing a game where there are no *right* decisions and where you're guaranteed to miss things (not because you chose the *bad* thing, but simply because there are alternative things of equal weight) might help break you out of it. Disco Elysium, for example.

I was never paralyzed to the degree you seem to be, but for years I also didn't want to make a *bad* decision, which I defined as a decision that led me to miss chunks of story. I wanted to see every dialogue option, do the quest of every companion, etc. For me, it was more or less just a matter of the increasing impossibility of it that got me out of it. I'm still bummed sometimes by things I never did in games, but it doesn't prevent me from playing them. The other habit I had was sometimes purposely NOT doing things I wanted to do (like leaving an interesting companion alone) to create reasons for me to replay, and thus see more of the overal game. That backfired because rarely did I end up having the motivation to fully replay those games. So nowadays I try to do the stuff that seems most interesting the first time I play, and if I do replay, it's a bonus.
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March 22nd, 2020, 13:27
Never had such problems myself - if there is like good/evil way to play game, I play with one mindset first time and hope if I ever replay it , then I will play the opposite way and see what was stored there.

But reality is all those choices and consequent are meaningless and minuscule, the game will lead you to the same end , no matter what choices you do - I mean you can choose to kill somebody and latter his mother will not talk to you and do not give you quest to save her kitty, but in common picture it has no meaning, you will arrive in the last boss chambers anyway. Even choice to kill or not that last boss has no meaning, because game is over, it will be only different cutscene now.

I cant remember a game where your choices changed gameplay drastically. And I would love that! That would be real roleplaying, real C&C. Like in real life, you do something and it can change your whole life at some point. You do something in game and next time you are no hero anymore, you have different goals now and path ahead. Its like two or three different game in one lol That would be replayability, so you never know how game will change each time you play.

But yeah, I know, I know, it would be too much for game developers, too much resources, money and work, and yet I still hope one day we will get such RPG of new generation to play…
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March 22nd, 2020, 14:17
The issue is likely to be created by a backlog that pushes the idea of a somewhat perfect walkthrough. Players being in between two vid products might feel urged to produce a satisfying walkthrough, the one that would allow them to move forward to their next vid product down the line.

Because it does not fit any design of vid products released over the last few years as they have removed committment from decisions, there is no right or wrong decisions so to speak, only branching patterns.
Move left, then this, move right, then that, move center etc

That idea of right or wrong etc is added by players who chase their own ideal playthrough, they are in between vid products, any second allocated to the current product is one second taken from the next, they must produce their self satisfying run on first attempt.

When playing games and having a zero backlog, those issues simply do not exist.
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March 22nd, 2020, 15:04
Originally Posted by Zogar Sag View Post
I cant remember a game where your choices changed gameplay drastically. And I would love that! That would be real roleplaying, real C&C. Like in real life, you do something and it can change your whole life at some point. You do something in game and next time you are no hero anymore, you have different goals now and path ahead. Its like two or three different game in one lol That would be replayability, so you never know how game will change each time you play.

But yeah, I know, I know, it would be too much for game developers, too much resources, money and work, and yet I still hope one day we will get such RPG of new generation to play…
The Witcher 2 went a little in that direction with its two separate paths at the second act.
Sadly the third (and last) act was kind of the same regardeless (like you said, time and ressources constraints).
Nice try though.
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Last edited by Winterfart; March 22nd, 2020 at 15:33.
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March 22nd, 2020, 17:55
Right!, it would be great if Witcher 2 continued that two separate stories even in act 3, which wasn't that long anyway! But yeah, almost there!

Probably another topic, but there is this trend in RPG games, when first and second acts are mostly great and it all goes down from there, with rushed content and unfinished stories, straight to boss room, hacking through masses and masses of trashmobs, thus prolonging gameplay, but in reality showing lack of resources and ideas put in games ending part.
What I mean with this, if developers fail to complete their games in meaningful way, there isnt any chances to see more evolving RPGs any soon, I guess.
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March 22nd, 2020, 18:33
Originally Posted by Zogar Sag View Post
Probably another topic, but there is this trend in RPG games, when first and second acts are mostly great and it all goes down from there, with rushed content and unfinished stories, straight to boss room, hacking through masses and masses of trashmobs, thus prolonging gameplay, but in reality showing lack of resources and ideas put in games ending part.
Example: The Outer Worlds. Good little game but that last act was sooo lame…


Originally Posted by Zogar Sag View Post
What I mean with this, if developers fail to complete their games in meaningful way, there isnt any chances to see more evolving RPGs any soon, I guess.
Probably not
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March 23rd, 2020, 17:04
Originally Posted by Lannister View Post
I was thinking about taking a break and playing shooters or anything non-rpg, however this is normally not my kind of genre….
Please do try out Adventure games ! Monkey Island is great !

In adventure games, there are usually no decisions. Only riddle-solving. Which makes them to be still great in my eyes !

There's often the problem that riddles are too difficult, though …
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March 27th, 2020, 11:07
Originally Posted by Lannister View Post
Somehow I sort of developed that problem in the last years…. prior to this I was content with my decision…. however with the increasing availability of walkthroughs and stuff i can always check if my decision was correct or if it lead to me passing a vital moment or plot ….
Yeah, that's something I'm also tending towards, with a few games, and it has potential to ruin the experience. I try to force myself to avoid it, as far as possible.

Sometimes, I avoid it successfully, which is why I got the worst possible ending for my first Witcher 3 playthrough.
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