Things that you don't like to see in a CRPG

For the start of the thread, here are 5 things that I don't like to see in a CRPG.

- Level Cap:
I really hate level caps. They somehow make me feel limited. If developers don't want players to become overpowered, they should put less monsters around or limit the XP points you get , level-cap is just not good.
Of course, it's obvious I'm talking about RPGs that you can reach your level-cap before finishing the game, ( like Fallout 3 ).

- Level-scaling:
I just enjoy it when I see I couldn't even get near a monster, but after gaining levels and getting better gears, I can kill them without any problem. But level-scaling totally destroys this.

- Lack of ability to choose your character's gender: ( edited )
Establishing a connection with my character is really important for me. I just can't do it when the character is female. I think it's better if developers just let you choose the gender you want to play with and don't determinate the gender of characters themselves.
Of course I am talking about RPGs that gender of the character is not important.

- Romance
Many people might like it , but I don't want these kinds of gimmick in my role playing experience. Especially if they become a part of the main story.

- Less XP points the more you level-up
There are some games like NWN or Divine Divinity which in them, the more levels you gain, less XP you get by killing the same monster. I don't like this. I want XP to be a fixed thing just like it was in Fallout or Gothic.

Let me put on my black hat and do some thinking… hmm… If I had to narrow it down to one it would be respawning.

Constraining my whining to just 5 things is cruel and unusual and is otherwise unneccessary roughness, but I'll give it a go.

5 - Useless Aids
Think 'Arcania' on this one. Games that offer up a bevy of items to aid the player in combat (potions, scrolls, skills, etc.) that you never use because you are never at risk of dying (because the game is too easy). Then you play the entire game never getting excited about anything you find because you don't need it.

4 - Static Worlds
I'm tired of barrel busting and crate bashing being the extent of world and object interaction. U7 ruined me for life in this regard. I can still play CRPGs that have 'static' worlds but I'm usually much less engrossed in those games. Baldur's Gate 1/2 and Planescape Torment come to mind. I enjoyed both games for the tactical combat and great stories. While I recognize that those games' main highlights were the combat and stories, I still wished the gameworld wasn't a static painting that scrolled underneath my characters as I moved around. I'm a fan of the concept that 'the game world is as much a character as NPCs are.' I like to interact with the game world - the more the better. And interactions don't have to have anything to do with progressing your way through the main quest or side quests. I love it when objects can be moved and manipulated in meaningful ways. U7, Arx Fatalis, and Divine Divinity are 3 games that allow for some measure of this. I'm still waiting for a CRPG that will highlight world and object interaction like how Baldur's Gate highlights story telling.

3 - Senseless Creatures
Primarily this happens in underground settings like caves and dungeons, but sometimes this happens outside as well. But when I'm working through a dungeon and you come upon creatures who seem to be just standing there waiting for you to arrive so their combat AI can kick in is always a dissapointment. Immersion includes making the world and the creatures believable. Why are they there? What do they eat (and where do they go number 2)? What keeps them busy when they're not killing you? This all become even more important when the creatures aren't creatures but are humanoids.

2 - Crappy UIs
I'm still waiting for a developer to really focus on making an awesome UI for the PC player. The last time I remember any developer actually hyping their UI was Westwood Studios while developing Lands of Lore 3. During that game's development, they were saying a lot of good things about how quests would be tracked and whatnot. Well, that never really panned out. What I'm looking for in a UI are features that make finding the information you need simple. Quest logs tend to group quests in 3 ways, Main Line Quests, Secondary Quests, and completed Quests. But what about a search feature? Say I remember something about a NPC named Joe. I want to be able to search on Joe and have the UI present to me everything I've learned about Joe (including where I last talked to him) through conversations, quests, and overall world events. I'd also like some level of customization with my UI. Don't like that your inventory only categorizes items into 4 categories... let the player create their own categories and as many as they'd like (or is reasonable). Don't like that your quest log only shows 5 quests at a time, let a player who is playing the game on a PC change their settings to make use of their resolution so that 25 quests show on the screen at one time. I could go on and on, but I think a great UI can make a great game a lot more enjoyable. Developers are funny about UIs... they rarely mention them during the development-hype period, but become the focus of a lot of player criticism when a game is finally released.

... and number 1 (drum roll please...)

1 - 'On Rails' and Location Lock-Outs
I really can't stand CRPGs that have you move through the game 'on rails.' Fable and Arcania are recent examples. These kinds of game beg for the idea that 'if you can see it you can go there.' Bumping into invisible barriers is a show stopper for me. I also can't stand it when I'm locked out of a geographic area for committing the crime of moving the main plot forward. While I loved Divinity 2, being locked away from past areas became one of my bigger criticisms for that game. I dislike being locked away from prior areas of a game for two reasons: 1) I just don't like it - it breaks the immersion of a 'world simulation.' 2) Because it makes the game less interesting and complex from a quest and exploring perspective. Take the Gothic games (G1-G3) for example. As you move through the main quest in that game, you revisit prior locations. But things change in those locations which makes the world much more interesting. This also makes it a lot harder on the developers to make their game - which is the reason why I think some developers do geographic lock-outs - because it's easier to make the game. But it also makes the game MUCH less interesting.

So there you have it. I widdled my list down from 80 billion to just 5. I will now huddle in a fetal position in the corner and wimper.

yeah, respawning sucks. That's probably my #1, it's just annoying. I dont mind playing a woman tho, I actually prefer it sometimes over a male protagonist. They just look so much cooler in an intricately designed costume or set of armor. I'm secure enough in my manhood to run around w/ a digital vagina now and then.

The trite "racism is bad" politically correct drumbeat is another for big bummer me. The constant Evil White Humans Hate Anything that Is Different keeps coming up in every f&$^& game that I play, it's just so goddamn old at this point. Whether sci fi, high fantasy, whatever just copy/pasta the Evil Rich White Carnivore Humans hate the Poor Peaceful Mystical Different-Colored Herbivore Non-Humans "just because". It's just lazy, and we're pounded over the head in RL enough w/ this song and dance as it is. Worse yet, the game(s) always treats us like we're little children on the subject w/ total black and white (no pun intended) characters and plot. There are things worse than racism, people. Seriously. I've known quite a few humans as well, in fact some of my best friends have been human. They arent all so bad.

xSamhainx said:

I dont mind playing a woman tho, I actually prefer it sometimes over a male protagonist. They just look so much cooler in an intricately designed costume or set of armor. I'm secure enough in my manhood to run around w/ a digital vagina now and then.

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I always get a chuckle from people who make a big deal out of a male playing a female or vice versa. Then you find out that person is playing an undead character.

Who is more screwed up... a male playing a female or a male playing an undead.?

- Romance
Many people might like it , but I don't want these kinds of gimmick in my role playing experience. Especially if they become a part of the main story.

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I would say that forced romances, or at least romances where you have to participate or else miss out on a (semi)large portion of the game is a bummer. Having the ability to connect with one of your fellow humanoids on an emotional level that goes beyond simple friendship can add some character to the game though, as long as it is handled well (which it usually is not…).

- Less XP points the more you level-up
There are some games like NWN or Divine Divinity which in them, the more levels you gain, less XP you get by killing the same monster. I don't like this. I want XP to be a fixed thing just like it was in Fallout or Gothic.

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Nox actually had an interesting take on the lowering "XP further into the game" thing. To reflect that you actually won't learn as much by doing the very same thing for the 20th time, you receive less XP from killing the same monster over and over, up until the point where a monster won't give you any XP. This both discourages grind, and makes a bit of sense.

-Overly simplistic or shallow moral choices.
Having the option to either be super good, or super evil is not very interesting. Let the player decide what is good and what is evil, and present interesting choices.

-No choices.
I actually find this to be less of an issue than the overly simplistic and shallow moral system that is in place in many games, still it it is not very fun to simply be guided down a single straight path, with no room for deviation or branches.

-Shallow character development (or the two no brainer stat system)
A common trend these days seem to strip down each character to two defining stats. You either increase these stats (through leveling or gear) or you shoot yourself in the foot. What is the fun in this? Character development should also let the player tailor his or her character to his or her personal preferences. There should preferably not be a single stat that is totally worthless to a character, thus forcing the player to use his or her own judgement to decide on how to develop the character(s).

-Useless skills
No skill should be useless in the grander scale of things. How fun is it to have spent several points in haggling, only to find out that the game showers you with money, and thus you won't have any use for that extra money that haggling nets you? All skills should be worth something, and if a skill is worth less, why not make it cheaper?

-Unrealistic wildlife
A wolf is a wolf, it is not some braindead monster that only wants to kill you because you are there. When introducing wildlife, it should work in a believable way.

Lack of thought, lore, and design put into dungeons.

I want to step into a piece of the world's history when I explore its forgotten past, not simply a hole in the ground.

TheMadGamer said:

I always get a chuckle from people who make a big deal out of a male playing a female or vice versa.

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On the contrary, I completely understand someone not wanting to play the other gender. Like he says, a connection to the character is important to some people, and some might have a harder time making that connection when forced to play as something they're not.

He's not saying there's anything wrong with it, he's just saying that he'd rather have a choice.

Level scaled rewards bother me even more than level scaled enemies (which can work).

Most mini-games such as Bethsofts lockpicking, ME2:s planet scanning (who the heck came up with that one?).

EDIT: I'd add the Barrels mentioned by others. NWN1s OC was particularly terrible at this…

Forced slow walking across already explored terrain (Arcanum stands out) is also a serious downer. Some sort of fast travel system to already visited locations is a must for games that make you revisit locations, which most good RPGs do. BG, Oblivion, and Gothic all use acceptable solutions to this issue

Inventory limits that force backtracking to unload loot (Two Worlds 1 come to mind, but this is a common offense). Unlimited inventory might be unrealistic but IMHO it adds to playability.

Most of my dislikes have been covered, but my number ONE HATE, is compulsory arcade sequences like jumping puzzles with moving platforms etc!!

There are two things I hate to see more than anything else:

1) Puzzles that require some type of visual queue from the game to solve. BG2 had a few of these, you had to really look at the backgrounds in a few areas to solve the puzzle. That would be fine if the game required you to always be aware of the backgrounds at that level of detail, but when it is just hit and miss and then you have to go back to a previous area and scan the background, it just annoys me. Puzzles that you just have to think through are ok.

2) Tactical combat that requires you figuring out some specific weakness or strategy to defeat the enemy. I'm not talking something like you need to finish off a troll with fire to kill it, but rather something like a werewolf only being susceptible to piercing damage and the actual damage is so low that you have to have some strategy that keeps you alive long enough to hit it 200 times. I want a challenge, not frustration. I find users mods are the worst at this.

3 things for me are:

Level Scaling - Whats the point in levelling?

"Bioware" Romances - Nothing feels more cheap in an rpg than a tacked on romance scene, complicatedly (*cough*) implemented via dialogue and a special love quest.

A relatively new one, QTE's - Sitting back reading some dialogue and suddenly a QTE appears on the screen. Before I have time to react, it's already gone.

Frozen Fireball said:

- Female protagonist:
Establishing a connection with my character is really important for me. I just can't do it when the character is female.

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And what about women playing RPGs ?

- Male protagonist:
Establishing a connection with my character is really important for me. I just can't do it when the character is male. I think it's better if developers just let you choose the gender you want to play with and don't determinate the gender of characters themselves.
Of course I am talking about RPGs that gender of the character is not important.

Black/White morality
When the option to play as "dark" or "light" or "good" or "evil" is boosted as a feature. Usually this means you play the ending you like, and get very little opportunity to flesh out your character beyond making it a cardboard cutout painted white or black.

Morality points
When morality becomes a bar that can/shall be filled with points in order to unlock certain abilities in the game, promoting you to pick by the points you earn instead of what you feel your character would choose.

BARRELS!
I hate barrels (and their cousins, boxes) with a passion!
Nothing breaks my sense of immersion more than having to break public containers to get gold coins, weapons, armor, etc.
In a similar way, stealing people's possessions from under their noses (you know, getting into someone's house, with them in there, and you just casually open their wardrobes, chests, etc. and take their money and items, with them not even mentioning it)

I've got another one: achievements (not to be confused with statistics)

Alrik Fassbauer said:

And what about women playing RPGs ?

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Well, as I said, they should let you choose the gender you want to play with. Not necessarily make it male. ( except in the games which it should be, like Gothic. )
Take Avadon for example, The mage classes ( Shaman and sorceress ) are female and you can't change it. That's really disappointing for someone like me who always like to play as a mage or mage like character, but in the other hand, he doesn't want to play as a female character. of course, the same thing can be said about fighters , I mean developers should let players to choose female fighters if they want too.
I'm sure you are thinking that I am caring too much about this matter and I agree too, but it breaks the immersion for me and I can't help it.

- Heavy Metal or/and Hard Rock music as soundtrack

hishadow said:

I've got another one: achievements (not to be confused with statistics)

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Achievements could be used to guide people, to make sure that you know that there is more to see in the game, and to hint at what needs to be done in order to see it, without anyone actually having to straight up tell you what you have to do in game. Of course, this is usually not how it is handled


-Grind
Few things are as boring as repeatedly killing the same creatures, just because you have to in order to get strong enough/enough money to get further into the game. Quests can also be a form of grind, where you have to do a whole lot of similar quests to advance further/to get more powerful (The Witcher, a game that I really like, falls into this trap, with all the mmo-style "kill X of Y" or "Get Z of Å"). This is why I like systems that discourages grind, because that means that the game developers know roughly how powerful a player character/party will be at a certain point in the game, and thus they can tailor the difficultly to that.