Fallout 3 - No Further Level Cap Increase

[Dhruin]

MTV asked Bethsoft if Fallout 3's level cap could possibly be increased beyond the current lvl 30 and received this (somewhat humerous in my opinion) response from Jeff Gardiner:

I know from the outside this seems like a fairly simple proposition, but doing this could unbalance the game in a variety of ways.

More information.

 

[guenthar]

Someone will eventually mod it in but until then there are mods that slow down leveling.

PS. Upping the level cap won't unbalance the game if it has proper content to balance it out.

 

[JemyM]

I reached level 30 yesterday and I haven't felt the need for more levels since level 15... Further level cap increases is pointless.

Playing the game as another character is completely pointless as well.

 

[lanux128]

imho, it's more important to pace out the frequency of reaching the next level. when i was playing it was like i gained a level each time i shot dead a super-mutant.

 

[txa1265]

Yep - Bethesda and level balancing ... not a strong point.

 

[dagoo7]

What? Why cant we just raise all Special limits to 15 .... Plus I need another 2 pts in Barter to get all my skills to 100+ and complete my unique character build. (Edit: I would hope the sarcasm is sufficiently obvious.)

As much as I enjoyed playing this game, they better make a serious attempt at fixing this in future incarnations. Not sure if I will be so forgiving in the future. The lack of meaningful character development and wonky balance are gamebreaking issues IMO.

 

[dagoo7]

PS. Upping the level cap won't unbalance the game if it has proper content to balance it out.

Well they tried to do that with Broken Steel and I'm not sure how well it worked. Since they couldnt go back and balance the game from scratch, they just had to make new types of each enemy that had insane amounts of hitpoints and hit for huge damage (at least on very hard). While this made for some more interesting fights, it didnt truly work towards increasing balance IMO.

I guess it depends on how one defines balance. To me balance is more than just having the occasional difficulty or challenge but to have a feeling that character choices and tactics are meaningful and important and that there is a uniform and continuous sense of character progression. Just making a few uber-mobs didn't do this for me.

BTW, the silly fact that one can use an unlimited amount of stimpacks at any time was a serious balance breaker. I know you can place limitations on yourself here, but it really took the sense of urgency and need for tactics out of the picture knowing that I could simply pause the game at any point and go from 20 hps to 800 by using up some of my 300 stimpack reserve. I think they really should have incorporated stimpack usage into the Vats system so that each usage required AP. I know the mechanics are different but there was a good reason stimpacks cost AP in 1 and 2.

 

[JDR13]

BTW, the silly fact that one can use an unlimited amount of stimpacks at any time was a serious balance breaker. I know you can place limitations on yourself here, but it really took the sense of urgency and need for tactics out of the picture knowing that I could simply pause the game at any point and go from 20 hps to 800 by using up some of my 300 stimpack reserve. I think they really should have incorporated stimpack usage into the Vats system so that each usage required AP. I know the mechanics are different but there was a good reason stimpacks cost AP in 1 and 2.

I definitely agree on that issue. They should have implemented some kind of penalty for using over a certain number of stimpacks at one time. For instance, causing you to take damage later on due to some kind of overdose effect.

Either that or make using a stimpack take a few seconds of real time like it realistically should. Similar to the way you actually have to drink the healing potions in Gothic.

 

[txa1265]

I definitely agree on that issue. They should have implemented some kind of penalty for using over a certain number of stimpacks at one time. For instance, causing you to take damage later on due to some kind of overdose effect.

Either that or make using a stimpack take a few seconds of real time like it realistically should. Similar to the way you actually have to drink the healing potions in Gothic.

There were just too many of those imbalancing elements throughout the game ... not to mention the overly exploitable VATS system ...

 

[RivianWitch]

I definitely agree on that issue. They should have implemented some kind of penalty for using over a certain number of stimpacks at one time. For instance, causing you to take damage later on due to some kind of overdose effect.

Either that or make using a stimpack take a few seconds of real time like it realistically should. Similar to the way you actually have to drink the healing potions in Gothic.

Yep, or like the toxicity effect of potions in The Witcher.

Regarding the leveling, I actually like the idea of introducing stronger foes at higher levels, like what happened in Morrowind. I felt Bethesdha was just lazy to do this in Oblivion, hence their weird reasoning behind their enemy leveling.

But I agree with the suggestion that part of the the problem, at the very least, would have been adressed if leveling took place either: 1) less frequently, and/or 2) in smaller increments.

I do, however, in an RPG like the feel of that I am weak in the beginning (that is after all, the whole point of leveling, isn't it?), and therefore I like that at the beginning a dog/rat /mole can kill me and a mutant is just something to run from; while at my full leveling potential a supermutant would be what a mole once was; - but I don't just want to be able to kill a supermutant more easily, I want to see my new-found abilities also demonstrated in an ability to kill newer, even stronger foes.. - and just making a mob out of the same-old enemies, is IMO being lazy to create new, interesting foes, and detracts from the richness of the experience.

So talking re Bethesda games especially, and RPG's in general, I say to enemy leveling (what is the point in leveling yourself, then?) a la Oblivion, and too much reliance on mobs, and to newer, stronger, more interesting foes.

 

[turian]

"BethSoft-dumbing down games since 2003"

 

[joxer]

Playing the game as another character is completely pointless as well.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[RivianWitch]

Playing the game as another character is completely pointless as well.

I played my first playthrough with a goody-two shoes alignment, with the full intention of replaying at least parts of the game as an evil SOB.
Beyond that, I agree with you. Suggesting that the player can derive joy from multiple playthroughs with different builds is once more a bit of a lazy cop-out, I'd say.

For the alignment thing, you don't have to even restart, you can just re-load a save and do some quests differently .
Whether I use melee or laser guns as my main weapon of choice, is just going to change aspects of combat, nothing of core game experience, and not worth it, IMO.

 

[guenthar]

When I was talking about new content I wasn't just talking about newmonsters or powered up monsters but something like what OOO, MMM, Frans, and FCOM do for Oblivion. Add new quests, monsters, gameplay elements, and rebalancing the old game content to make the entire game balanced to the new length of play.

Atleast mods are/will correct most of the problems with the game that Bethesda is unwilling to correct.

 

[Brother None]

When I was talking about new content I wasn't just talking about newmonsters or powered up monsters but something like what OOO, MMM, Frans, and FCOM do for Oblivion. Add new quests, monsters, gameplay elements, and rebalancing the old game content to make the entire game balanced to the new length of play.

I would be curious to see if Bethesda would do something like that. Probably not, though.

I do, however, in an RPG like the feel of that I am weak in the beginning (that is after all, the whole point of leveling, isn't it?), and therefore I like that at the beginning a dog/rat /mole can kill me and a mutant is just something to run from; while at my full leveling potential a supermutant would be what a mole once was;

Is it? On normal difficulty, I killed a supermutant at level 3 with a half-broken laser pistol, by circle-strafing and using VATS. I think it's probably possible to do it at level 2.

I think Bethesda did the threat thing better with the deathclaws. I'm not sure since I never looked under the hood, but I suspect they scale down less, and the fact that they're damned fast means you can pretty much freak out when they come charging. That was pretty cool, since it was the same feeling the deathclaw evoked in the original.

But supermutants? Bah. After slaughtering a vault full of security officers with an old 10mm pistol, supermutants are no threat.

 

[txa1265]

Is it? On normal difficulty, I killed a supermutant at level 3 with a half-broken laser pistol, by circle-strafing and using VATS. I think it's probably possible to do it at level 2.

Yes, it is ... I went plowing into the wasteland when I replayed to review the expansions.

 

[Brother None]

Yes, it is ... I went plowing into the wasteland when I replayed to review the expansions.

I think Fallout 3 has more level scaling than many people think. The area scaling works well in that you don't notice it, but it does give wildly different experiences: my first playthrough I ran into Capital Wasteland fairly early, and had it easy most of the game. If you wait too long, they're pretty tough.

I remember it being on one of those old outdoor theaters, there were two supermutants, one with a club, one with a rocket launcher. I kneecapped the clubbing one and just kept backing up and shooting, and the rocket launcher dude kept missing. Killed two super mutants at level 3.

Not surprised you did it at 2.

Though obviously it doesn't stretch for every area. Like I said, Old Olney remains off limits for a long, long time. So yeah, plowing into the wasteland? It will get you killed eventually. And that's good.

 

[skavenhorde]

When I was talking about new content I wasn't just talking about newmonsters or powered up monsters but something like what OOO, MMM, Frans, and FCOM do for Oblivion. Add new quests, monsters, gameplay elements, and rebalancing the old game content to make the entire game balanced to the new length of play.

I love those mods. A pain in the butt to get them to work correctly, but once it's set up it's like playing Oblivion for the first time.

They already have MMM for Fallout 3. Add XFO and FOOK to your mod manager and you have yourself a brand new game that doesn't let you become a god at the 2nd level and is a heck of a lot more fun than the vanilla version. In addition to the slower leveling/no 100 point or 20th level cap.

 

[Brother None]

They already have MMM for Fallout 3. Add XFO and FOOK to your mod manager and you have yourself a brand new game that doesn't let you become a god at the 2nd level and is a heck of a lot more fun than the vanilla version. In addition to the slower leveling/no 100 point or 20th level cap.

Recommendation? Fallout Interoperability Program. It can still be a bit tough to get them all running, but do it right and you can combine MMM, FOOK and XFO or FWE for a pretty new and alternatively balanced game. It was pretty damned hard with all those mods, in fact.

 

[skavenhorde]

How could I forget about FOIP. Without it there is no way you could get all those working together.

I haven't used FWE yet, but I have the other 3. I figure I'll add that one for the next playthrough.