Henry Louis Gates Jr.'s Arrest

[Squeek]

I don't know, I'm not the one who accuses every cop who does anything to a black suspect of being a racist.

I suppose I could challenge you to quote me, making that accusation. But we both already know I never accused even one cop of that.

But I did point out that both cops were white and both victims were black. If you think that means those cops were probably racist, then I don't blame you since that does seem like an obvious possibility.

Like it or not, of the two of us, you're the one who came to that conclusion. So instead of laying that on me, maybe you should reconsider how you actually feel and whether or not you think it's OK.

 

[Ubereil]

...why would you even point that out if you weren't hinting that the cop was racist, Squeek?

Übereil

 

[JDR13]

But I did point out that both cops were white and both victims were black. If you think that means those cops were probably racist, then I don't blame you since that does seem like an obvious possibility.

Here's part of the porblem right here. Why are you refering to them as "victims"? It makes it obvious that you've already taken a side without knowing all the facts.

 

[Rithrandil]

I suppose I could challenge you to quote me, making that accusation. But we both already know I never accused even one cop of that.

But I did point out that both cops were white and both victims were black.

Pointing this out *on this case* is IRRELEVANT. You're making a leading statement and obviously implying the cop was racist.

If you think that means those cops were probably racist, then I don't blame you since that does seem like an obvious possibility.

Oh, so you go from 'I'VE NEVER SAID THAT' to 'obvious possibility'. So no, actually I'll stick with my original statement: you're implying, in both cases, the cops used race as a motivator in their actions.

Like it or not, of the two of us, you're the one who came to that conclusion. So instead of laying that on me, maybe you should reconsider how you actually feel and whether or not you think it's OK.

Oh shut up, Squeek. You obviously implied both cops were racist. If you want to try and scoot back from that, fine, but I'm going to call you on it.

Yes, I came to the conclusion that you think both cops are racist because you brought race into the other case and into this case as a factor.

Maybe you ought to examine your beliefs.

 

[Squeek]

...why would you even point that out if you weren't hinting that the cop was racist, Squeek?

Übereil

Does hinting constitute accusation, Uberiel? If so then I suppose I should consider your question an accusation. Right? For some reason race is a subject many people have an urge to "bottom line" immediately. That's a bad idea, IMO.

I do suspect that this particular cop may have had more sympathy for this feeble old lady if she had been white. And I suspect Crowley has an easier time dealing with irate people who aren't black and accusing him of racism.

Call that what you will.

 

[Rithrandil]

She's also not threatening anyone, nor within range to injure anyone other than herself with it. She's just holding the knife, she's calling for her daughter, and she's clearly distraught and confused.

And she didn't respond or put down the knife. She could have confused herself into hurting herself or someone else with it. She's obviously not in a lucid and coherent frame of mind. She might not even 'mean' to hurt someone and do it anyways.

As to the race angle, I'm sorry, but I can't help thinking that the cop just might have acted differently had she looked like this instead:

And I don't think that at all. I don't see a little old black lady as different from a little old white lady.

 

[Squeek]

Oh shut up, Squeek. You obviously implied both cops were racist. If you want to try and scoot back from that, fine, but I'm going to call you on it.

Don't confuse me with the facts, is that it? Sorry if that creates difficulty for you or spoils your enjoyment, but facts are facts and I prefer to keep them straight.

 

[Rithrandil]

Don't confuse me with the facts, is that it? Sorry if that creates difficulty for you or spoils your enjoyment, but facts are facts and I prefer to keep them straight.

Sure, whatever. By your own words:

Does hinting constitute accusation, Uberiel? If so then I suppose I should consider your question an accusation. Right? For some reason race is a subject many people have an urge to "bottom line" immediately. That's a bad idea, IMO.

I do suspect that this particular cop may have had more sympathy for this feeble old lady if she had been white. And I suspect Crowley has an easier time dealing with irate people who aren't black and accusing him of racism.

Call that what you will.

So your 'facts' are that you think these cops were racist without having ANY idea of their case history, commendations or whatever the opposite of that is, friends, personal history, etc, etc, etc.

In both cases you immediately brought up the fact the cop was white and the suspect was black just to make your snide little insinuation that they're all a bunch of Mark Fuhrmans. And hey, you admitted it, and then try to deny it?

Whatever man, if you want to be like that (just like when you implied I was an anti-semite for not supporting Israel blowing crap up in Gaza and on the West Bank),feel free, but actually have the guts to say it instead of imply it and then gasp in amazement when someone calls you on it.

 

[vanedor]

And she didn't respond or put down the knife. She could have confused herself into hurting herself or someone else with it. She's obviously not in a lucid and coherent frame of mind. She might not even 'mean' to hurt someone and do it anyways.

The cop could have just made sure that nobody get close from her. Doesnt seem a big challenge to me.

And seriously, did she look suicidal? The excuse that she might have hurt herself seems ridiculous. The risk of hurting her by the way the cop dealt with the situation were much higher...

 

[Rithrandil]

The cop could have just made sure that nobody get close from her. Doesnt seem a big challenge to me.

Until when? Someone comes up and tranqs her? I'm just curious as to how long the cop would have to keep people away from her. She has no idea how the lady got there, if she's on medication, if she's had some sort of mental break, etc - just that she is nonresponsive, coming towards her, and carrying a knife.

And seriously, did she look suicidal? The excuse that she might have hurt herself seems ridiculous. The risk of hurting her by the way the cop dealt with the situation were much higher...

You misunderstand me - she was obviously not in her right mind, correct? She could have hurt herself or someone *without realizing what she was doing*. The cop's not psychic. Maybe she could have tried a different disarm, but it's not like she kicked the old lady in the throat after the 'threat' was neutralized or decided to tazer her.

 

[dteowner]

So you're sticking with the idea that the officer involved was fighting for her life, eh? I'm certainly no expert, but I've had knives pulled on me twice (and fought once). Frankly, your characterization of this as "life threatening" is just too ridiculous to be taken seriously.

Sorry, but you need to get real.

I don't want to read something that isn't there, since you seem to get into that situation an awful lot, but I still don't see the first bit of sympathy for 326 DEAD cops.

I don't think I've stated anywhere that the officer was fighting for her life, BTW. I *have* stated that she was dealing with an erratic, unresponsive, and unpredictable woman armed with a 10" knife. Would you care to dispute that?

 

[Squeek]

Whatever man, if you want to be like that (just like when you implied I was an anti-semite for not supporting Israel blowing crap up in Gaza and on the West Bank),feel free, but actually have the guts to say it instead of imply it and then gasp in amazement when someone calls you on it.

Several adjectives often come to mind whenever I read your posts, Rith, but at the moment I can't remember "amazed"ever being one of them.

Get over your tantrum and I might still be willing to engage you afterward. But I prefer intellectual honesty. Your reluctance to get specific and your dramatic "guts" talk doesn't impress me much.

 

[Rithrandil]

Several adjectives often come to mind whenever I read your posts, Rith, but at the moment I can't remember "amazed"ever being one of them.

Get over your tantrum and I might still be willing to engage you afterward. But I prefer intellectual honesty. Your reluctance to get specific and dramatic "guts" talk doesn't impress me much.

I could care less about your 'willingness to engage'. And you prefer 'intellectual honesty? PLEASE. Don't make me laugh - you are nowhere close to being intellectually honest. You flat out said they would have 'acted differently' if the suspects had been white. That is accusing them of racist behavior. When I pointed that out you try to act like I'm the one calling them racist *when I am on their side*. Pathetic, Squeek, pathetic.

And I did get specific. I quoted you VERBATIM saying that. You want to deny it or say you meant something else, fine, it's not my job to read into your arcane BS.

I could care less if I 'impress' you. I have more important things to do than worry what someone such as yourself thinks of me.

 

[Squeek]

I don't think I've stated anywhere that the officer was fighting for her life, BTW.

Have I misunderstood? If so then what is the connection you're making between this incident and the statistics you quoted about dead police officers?

 

[Squeek]

Rith, check your meds. I'm serious. Conversation with you got real odd real fast.

 

[Rithrandil]

And I'm going to stop right here before I get an infraction in saying what deserves to be said to you at this point.

 

[vanedor]

Until when? Someone comes up and tranqs her? I'm just curious as to how long the cop would have to keep people away from her. She has no idea how the lady got there, if she's on medication, if she's had some sort of mental break, etc - just that she is nonresponsive, coming towards her, and carrying a knife.

Just looked back at the video. When the cop assaulted the woman, she was actually walking away from her in direction of no one in particular! That's not specially threatening. And if someone walked toward someone else, it's the cop. The old woman was just standing still, until the police car arrived.

But to answer your question.. yes, until someone came and tranquilise her, be it her daughter or a nurse, or until she was actually a threat to someone or herself, or until she understands a bit what's going on... there was no reason at all for the cop to act immediatly.

You misunderstand me - she was obviously not in her right mind, correct? She could have hurt herself or someone *without realizing what she was doing*. The cop's not psychic. Maybe she could have tried a different disarm, but it's not like she kicked the old lady in the throat after the 'threat' was neutralized or decided to tazer her.

Indeed. But not in her right mind doesnt mean she was a danger for herself. To make sure she didnt hurt anyone else was pretty easy for anyone... even more for someone with the authority of a cop who can just shout to anyone to stay clear from the old woman.

 

[dteowner]

Folks, you keep talking about "until she was actually a threat to ... herself". Where's that magic point, folks? Are you qualified to make psychological evaluations right there on the street? Do you expect cops to be qualified psychologists? Your entire flimsy argument is built on this little bit of doggie doo.

Bottom line, y'all want to indict, so you're not going to consider any facts that run contrary to the verdict you want to get. Bigs ups for the mindless mob.

Still waiting for that first bloody tear on behalf of fallen cops from all the bleeding hearts. Hypocrites.

I think I'll join Rith on the sideline. This has become utterly pointless. Y'all should be ashamed, but I guess I'll just have to be completely embarassed on your behalf.

 

[Squeek]

Still waiting for that first bloody tear on behalf of fallen cops from all the bleeding hearts. Hypocrites.

Donate half as much to police & firemen charities as I have and then run that by me again, pal.

 

[dteowner]

Glad to hear it, Squeek. You sure don't show any sign of it here.