Risen - Steam Sale

[Roland]

I found this and it answered my question...so I'm good to go thx

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=3160-AGCB-2555

 

[Kostas]

One can work decades without producing anything that's worth something

Now that's pretty harsh on Grimoire

On topic: Risen is definitely worth full price as long as you skip the last 15 minutes of it.

 

[Moriendor]

I've seen this stated quite a number of times. While Risen and Gothic 2 share much of the same feature set, I always remember Gothic 2 being a much longer and generally 'bigger' game. In addition to that, I don't see any real comparision between the storyline and events between the two games, except perhaps how the 'guild' system works.

Say what? Risen was almost like a 1:1 carbon copy of the Gothics (mostly Gothic 2 + NotR).

- Samey monsters (not all but most)
- Same guild system as you pointed out already
- Same guilds even (Risen -> bandits, Gothic 2 -> mercenaries; Risen -> The Inquisition, Gothic 2 -> Paladins; Risen -> The Mages, Gothic 2 -> The Mages)
- Similar pirate sidekick/side quest
- Same lizards
- Same overall structure where you go from act 1 and the joining of a guild to a more linear experience from chapter to chapter until you make it to the final boss fight. As far as the story is concerned Risen is more like a collage or compilation of Gothic 1 + 2 + NotR themes though (e.g. five disks in Risen vs five focus stones in Gothic 1).
- Same "level" (world) structure with only one major city and the only other settlements are the guild camps
- A lot of the same (type of) NPC like both games had a lighthouse guard or a violent bully (in the bandit camp in Risen and in the mercenary camp in Gothic 2) or a brothel owner etc. etc. etc. - Seriously, you can easily find a counterpart of nearly every (type of) Gothic NPC in Risen.

Actually, the amount of striking similarities is the major reason why I was slightly disappointed in Risen. Sure, it was a good game and it was really nice for some time to have all those Gothic flashbacks but after a while I was hoping to see something new and more creative. Instead, however, the game got less and less creative towards the end and culminated in one of the lamest and most anti-climactic endings ever.
'Twas quite a shame since PB had a chance to start from scratch with Risen and I don't think I was the only one hoping that they would outdo themselves and deliver something really awesome, innovative and creative like Gothic 1 was back in the day. Unfortunately we "only" got more of the same though. Which isn't bad per se but, you know, it could have been so much more.

 

[Irian]

Um, yes? If you really work in software development you should know what a man-month is. And perhaps, how much of these man-months a game needs to be complete - and we are even talking about a nearly bug-free game.

So what? If I was a freelancer and coded for a month, but the result was a bad piece of code, no one would pay me for this month, because the result wouldn't be worth it. If an artist paints for a month, but the painting is ugly, nobody will buy it. Working for a month does NOT mean, that the result is somehow automatically worth one month of pay, because the worth of something isn't equal to the amount of work put into it. It can be much more - but it also can be much less.

And yes, Risen was suprisingly bug-free, but unfortunately, PB was playing safe: No bugs, sure, but nothing new or great either. They didn't risk anything (which was probably a good idea, after G3), but without risking anything, it's pretty hard to be awesome. So, in the end, it became a pretty mediocre game.

And yes, the team that created it needs to be paid. Just because you didn't like the game mechanics, why do you think the game is generally not "worth" only 15 dollars? That the developers don't deserve something to eat? I think you're just narrowminded.

I hope you're out there, spending your last money on every magazine, car, couch, house, etc. available. Because all the people making these also deserve something to eat. So, following your logic, you have to buy EVERYTHING that exists. Are you joking? If someome makes a game that I don't like then this someone is out of luck. There's nothing forcing me to buy it, just because he worked hard. There are millions and millions of things out there that I don't like, if you were right I would have to feel bad because I don't buy them. But fortunately, this idea is simply absurd.

That's how low people gone regarding appreciation … "mediocre games" aren't even worth 15 dollars. Sad. Just sad. How much would you price a "good game", how much a "bad game"? And: why do you think this opinion of yours is universally (this is how you phrased it in your first post)?

Oh my. You are one of those people who demand "This posting does not the reflect the opinion of all people in this world!" in big letters above every posting? Isn't that self-evident? That something is not worth x bucks is of course just MY opinion. What else should it be? What else could it be? Do you think there is some magical scale somewhere, measuring the worth of everything objectively? Sorry, but if you want this written explicitly in every posting, perhaps this whole "communication" thingy isn't quite right for you?

Doesn't matter, back to the topic: I pay the normal price for games I like - and often for games that I don't like because I can only find out by playing them. In many cases I even spend 10-15€ more, because I somehow like collector's editions. But the question is not really, how much I spend, but how much I think the game was worth after it. For example, I think the money spent on Risen was wasted for me, because I didn't get 50€ (or something like that) of fun out of it. But on the other hand, the 50€ spent on another game can be a great investment, if I think that the game gave me much more fun than just 50€-fun.

Honestly, I still don't see your problem. If you don't like apples, you aren't forced to buy them, no matter how hard the farmer worked to produce them. Other people may think that the apple is worth, say 1$. But if you don't like apples, the apple is worthless for you. What's your problem?

 

[HiddenX]

Say what? Risen was almost like a 1:1 carbon copy of the Gothics (mostly Gothic 2 + NotR).
...

The fans asked for a Gothic-Game in the tradition of Gothic 1&2 and PB listened and gave them Risen. They wanted to play safe after the Gothic 3 desaster.

They wanted a bit too much with Gothic 3, and like a pendulum, they overreact by making Risen a carbon copy of Gothic 1 & 2.

Maybe Risen was a planned addon for Gothic 3, we will never know …

 

[KayAU]

I've seen this stated quite a number of times. While Risen and Gothic 2 share much of the same feature set, I always remember Gothic 2 being a much longer and generally 'bigger' game. In addition to that, I don't see any real comparision between the storyline and events between the two games, except perhaps how the 'guild' system works.

Well, maybe I am exaggerating a bit for dramatic effect when I say it is "almost a remake", but it does seem to be based on the same basic formula, and has some striking similarities.

The basic gameplay is pretty much the same, which is not necessarily a bad thing, and as I have mentioned, they do refine it and introduce some new elements. However, it does still fell very familiar.

SPOILER WARNING

The setting and factions are where things get *very* similar to Gothic 2. You start out as a "blank character" who has just survived serious physical trauma and is left weakened and stranded in an unknown region, which just happens to be an island where regular ship traffic has ceased. Before you enter the island's one town, you pass through a farm. Here you learn that the local farmers are currently hard pressed due to the royal warriors who have recently arrived and have taken control of the town. And you can not just enter the town, there are some hoops to jump through.

Anyway, as you will learn, these royal warriors, who use a mixture of physical combat and magic in battle, have come to the island to acquire something which can aid them in fighting the greater evil which is looming. They are, however, opposed by a faction of "bandits", living in an encampment some distance from the town. The bandits use physical combat only, and are lead by a local leader who did not want to bow to the royal warriors when they arrived.

In addition to the royal warriors and the bandits, there is also a faction of mages living in a monastery. The mages are allied to the royal warriors, but retain some sense of independence and are more or less respected by all. To join them, you need to go through a training period as a novice in the monastery.

SPOILERS END (mostly)

So, okay, there are certainly differences and nuances (largely for the better), but still:
- You have the same basic gameplay.
- Your character starts out in roughly the same situation.
- The environment is largely similar.
- The three factions, and their interrelationships, are almost the same.

So, I think it is fair to say Piranha Bytes reused a lot from what was probably their most successful game, Gothic 2. I don't blame them for this, the result was a pretty great RPG which, while shorter, in many ways was better than Gothic 2. They pleased their old fans, got a pretty positive press reception, and established a good foundation for their new RPG series. This was probably the right move at the time. I do miss some of the ambition from Gothic 3, however.

Kay

 

[Daddy32]

No, 15$ = 15€

Fuck, I won't buy it for this reason alone.

 

[TheMadGamer]

I don't disagree with those of you saying Risen and Gothic 2's feature sets are basically the same.

But a big difference between the two games to me is that Gothic 2 just seemed way bigger and more varied. I still enjoyed Risen. And with the release of Arcania, I hope Risen 2 will see the light of day.

I don't really feel like getting into a point by point essay over it, feel free to disagree.

 

[JDR13]

Yes, there were many similarities with Gothic 2, now move on people.

Bottom line: Risen was a great game overall. Some chapters were better than others, and the ending sucked ass, but it was one of the better crpgs I've played in the last 4-5 years. It was better than Gothic 3, and 10x better than Arcania. I have high expectations for Risen 2, and I don't think PB is going to disappoint.

 

[Irian]

Comparing a game to G3 is a little bit like comparing a runner to a dead guy with no legs... Slightly unfair.

 

[Badesumofu]

Risen is definitely worth $15, the first chapter is worth that alone.

The number of man-months put into a game do not directly increse its value to a consumer. They might increase the sentimental value of the game to the people who put the man-months in, but anyone who is in the business of selling games knows that that has no bearing on what people will pay for it (which is the only real way to asses the dollar value of anything).

 

[chautemoc]

The game is incredible..one of the best RPGs I've ever played. Worth full price for sure.

As for Gothic/Risen debate...yeah, I actually found it very similar to G1 in a lot of ways. But I never felt I wasn't enjoying myself. The game's just too godamn beautiful for that to bother me.

 

[Hindukönig]

Irian, my point is: You really stated "the game isn't worth 15$" in your first posting. There was no "IMO" in it! Really, I think you're the one who should learn about communication.

And I would never try to value a game very low just because it's not to my likings. That's probably the difference between us: I can appreciate the value of the work that was spent on something.
Just because I don't like RTS games, I absolutely understand why they cost 40 to 50 dollars. A better example would be point'n'click adventures - I find them to be boring and dull most times, but I know that a team of developers created them in a long time span and thus this game *IS* worth more than just a few dollars. Basing the value of anything on personal taste is … childish. IMHO.

And I never said that one should buy a game just because someone made it and wants to eat. Where are your communication skills?

[edit]BTW: I also think that Risen is worse than Gothic 2 and especially Gothic 1. But I don't regret buying it fullprice, because I played it through and had fun. Sidenote: Going into the cinema, watching a 3D movie, costs 12 Euros and lasts 2 hours; I played Risen several days.[/edit]

 

[Hindukönig]

Can somebody please tell me if a game that costs 15$ on Steam REALLY costs 15$? Or are there taxes? And if yes, how much are they?

 

[Dhruin]

No taxes for me, though I guess it might vary with location.

 

[DArtagnan]

Irian, my point is: You really stated "the game isn't worth 15$" in your first posting. There was no "IMO" in it! Really, I think you're the one who should learn about communication

How could it be anything but his opinion?

He even said: "Honestly, I don't think….."

Your post came off as rather aggressive and unpleasant, though.

 

[KayAU]

Yes, there were many similarities with Gothic 2, now move on people.

Bottom line: Risen was a great game overall. Some chapters were better than others, and the ending sucked ass, but it was one of the better crpgs I've played in the last 4-5 years. It was better than Gothic 3, and 10x better than Arcania. I have high expectations for Risen 2, and I don't think PB is going to disappoint.

I almost completely agree with you (except I didn't dislike the ending that strongly). I would actually say that Risen felt like an improved Gothic 2 in most areas. The technical things were of course better (such as graphics), combat was significantly improved, I liked the new gameplay elements (like dungeon puzzles and treasure hunting), the factions were nuanced somewhat better (no group seemed completely wrong), they brought in some great voice actors, some quest-lines were better (such as joining the monastery) and overall the game seemed more polished and refined. Judging the game on its own merits, the only things which I think were maybe lesser was the overall size of the game, and the less varied game world. But Risen is definitely worthy of comparison with Gothic 2, and that is saying something. My reaction to it would probably have been even more positive if I hadn't already played through Gothic 2 four times before, but as I stated, I think playing it safe was probably the right thing to do.

Now, I am looking forward to Risen 2 and any other PB release. Based on the ambition I saw in Gothic 3, and the ability to refine and improve I saw in Risen, it is possible that Piranha have not made their masterpiece yet. And for a company which has already made four of the greatest CRPGs ever, that is again saying something.

Kay

 

[Hindukönig]

Your post came off as rather aggressive and unpleasant, though.

Probably because I was pissed off.

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

Can somebody please tell me if a game that costs 15$ on Steam REALLY costs 15$? Or are there taxes? And if yes, how much are they?

Hm, I'd ask Steam for that.

I really don't know.

 

[Hindukönig]

Their answer is: it varies from location to location. I'd like to know it from Americans, specifically.