Why most people don't finish video games

…after 30 hours, the story and setting get stale.

I agree - in fact, 30 hours, with a minimum amount of filler and backtracking, seems like a perfect length for an RPG.

BG2 took me about 120 hours to finish and several months. Morrowind + its expansion packs, which I never finished even after putting in about 150 hours. But those games were entirely worth it - same with some JRPGs. And those games are rare.

But most RPGs, specifically newer ones, just tend to drag because they're just too long and drawn out. And repetitive. Give incentive for replay, tight and entertaining gameplay, and decent production values, and even 20 - 25 hours seems sufficient.
 
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30 hours seems about how long my attention generally lasts for as well. Games just get boring after 30 hours. Thing is though, I played Morrowind for about 300 hours. Final Fantasy 7 for god knows how many hours, maybe 500? Lost Odyssey for 70 hours. It just depends on the game. Certain gems I can play for infinitely long if the game is done right. Other stuff that isn't as good (like Mass Effect in my opinion, I quit 20 hours in) just doesn't hold my attention for very long.
 
I only feel compelled to finish games (RPGs in particular) when I'm planning on playing the sequel. I've just recently finished Divine Divinity and Two Worlds because I'd wanted to play Divinity II: DKS and Two Worlds II respectively. Otherwise I'm pretty useless for finishing games; it's too easy to get distracted by other bright shiny objects (Skyrim for one).
 
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Couldn't finish Skyrim, it did start strongly, but after around 30 hours roaming around doing quests, and 2-3 restarts, the plot didn't grip me enough to care.

While Terraria - my, my. What a splendid gem for $2.50 USD.
 
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If a game provides less than 60-100 hours of content, I typically wait to buy it when it goes on sale for $5-10.

I tend to play games on the hardest setting and end up dying and reloading many times, so I usually get much more playing time out of games that others might finish in a shorter time period.

For example, I've played Oblivion for several hundred hours without even scratching the surface of the main quest. Fallout New Vegas, I played through twice for about 250 hours and I haven't started any of the DLC yet. Even my playthrough of Dragon Age 2 lasted around 180 hours (without finishing) because I was playing on Nightmare and died so many times. DA:O provided around 200 hours of playing time or so (including Awakenings).

I have also enjoyed a number of shorter games, such as Cthulu DCoTE, Amnesia, Bioshock 1 & 2, Portal, but I made sure to buy them on sale at a deep discount.
 
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It was really great when you had a co-op going too. I had 2 sessions started up, one with a veteran who knew the correct progression and general how-to accomplish certain objectives and another with a complete beginner.

What a blast. I think I had 50 hours clocked up in a week. There's just so much content and I kept myself spoiler free to enhance the 'fresh' factor.

I even dropped everything I had going to kept digging deeper into Terraria. One battle in hell later, and the surface changed. Hard mode unlocked. Unbelievable. I thought only Diablo could grab me this long.

Very, very satisfied that I bought a 4 pack to share the joy. Brilliant.
 
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A recurring issue for me is there are too many games and not enough time. To illustrate: I got Skyrim for my birthday, 2 days after release - and I hardly ever get games on release date anymore. But I had just gotten Dragon Age a few weeks before (had played it about half way last year when a friend loaned it to me). So I split what little gaming time I had between both games.

But for x-mas someone got me Fallout NV. I was curious about Obsidian's take on the franchise so I started up a game…only to feel guilty that I'd only put about 20 hours into Fallout 3…so went back to my saved game. So which do I play? Fallout 3? Skyrim? DA?

Well, these are all on the Xbox 360 and along with that stack there's Fable 2 (about 5 hours in), Blue Dragon which I had just gotten a few months ago (and actually really liked it) but only played a bit, and another 5 or 6 games.

ON TOP OF THAT, there was the GOG Holiday sale and of course I had to get copies of Icewind Dale, Fallout, Arcanum, Planescape… all games I already own in retail packages but wanted to put on my new laptop without having to dig up boxes. So, another habit I have is starting new games of these titles at least once every two years or so - even if I never get that far. Helps that I've never played the IWD expansions so that's a plus, and I've never finished Arcanum. Also got Age Of Wonders which I've never played and STILL have the M & M 1 - 6 I got 2 years ago of which I've only played 4!!!

THEN, I got Torchlight on Steam and remembered I had gotten Rome: Total War and never really played it.

Thank the gods I have a pretty old desktop and my laptop isn't exactly a gaming machine because I haven't played any of the RPGs released in the last few years unless they were released on 360 or low tech like Torchlight.

AND THAT"S another reason I don't finish most games.

Haven't even mentioned the 20 or so unfinished DS games (a few of which I've were purchased in the last 6 months) and the 5 PSONE classics I downloaded for my PSPGo in the last 2 months.
 
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hmmm, does the number include pirates? or buyers. If you buy a game for $50 you're probably going to have a lot more patience... and want to finish it.
 
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Being (almost) seventeen I don't really qualify as an aging gamer other than by the very traumatizing fact I'm still kind of a gamer and kind of still aging (fo' nao), yet I find myself unable to finish games all the same. My problem is that I can hardly justify investing time in what amounts to little more than padding, so I don't really mind the present trend towards shorter games made of nothing but set pieces and high points. Give me fast, challenging, and spectacular gameplay so that I can have my fun when I want and then go back to doing useful thingies.

The problem with longer games is that, in most cases at least, they aren't longer because there are even more links in the chain of highlights and set pieces but just because there are more trash mobs, repetition, padding, and walking around huge levels full of nothing standing between a link and the next. And I'm sure that regardless of age and background we all can find better things to do with our time.

So I personally welcome shorter, faster, and more to the point games. You can always add extremely ridiculous difficulty settings, additional routes, and extra challenges for us to keep coming back for more concise and straightforward gaming after the first run.



GothicGothicness said:
hmmm, does the number include pirates? or buyers. If you buy a game for $50 you're probably going to have a lot more patience… and want to finish it.

Please don't take this personally, but wouldn't that argument actually work the other way around? Like, if the only reason for us to play through most games is that we spent money on them then the pirate's position becomes actually much more understandable and relatable as a game's quality should be judged on its own instead of based on how much it did cost us to play it.

The number including pirates would only make it a much more objective analysis of whether or not current gamers find the games themselves worthy of investing their time on.

Maybe I did misunderstand you, though. If so, I beg your pardon.
 
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Guess Terraria should be dropped after 10-45 mins cause it costs only $2.50?
It doesn't work like that. Pirate or not, most gamers want to have fun. If it ain't fun, then why force yourself to finish it?
 
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As one of those that often doesn't finish games that I start, here are my thoughts:

In my opinion, it isn't that your attention span dwindles as you get older. It's that you know what it is like when you are intrigued by a game. Yes, I do not finish as high of a percentage of games as I did 10 years ago, but I also know what I like and have more options than I did as a kid. At the same time, I finished Dragon Age: Origins and Fallout New Vegas each in a week and a half of time. I was so sucked into them that I figured out a way to make time for them (to the detriment of my sleep schedule and social life). On the other hand, I have been playing the Witcher for a good month but I can only play it for short periods at a time. For whatever reason, it just hasn't sucked me in. Another issue with me and finishing games is that things intervene in my life more often now. When I was a child, things were pretty stable and not a lot changed. I didn't have disposable income, so I was willing to give the fewer games I got more of a chance. Now that I'm in my late 20's, I find myself moving around a lot and traveling. Sometimes this makes it difficult to continue saved games. As an example, I recently moved. I took my custom built computer with me but I sold my other computer to my brother so he would still have something back home. Unfortunately, my Gothic 2 saves are on that system and I haven't had the chance to go back and retrieve them yet. On top of that, I have a pretty serious girlfriend who gets angry if I spend large chunks of time playing a video game instead of paying attention to her - I guess I'm supposed to be staring deeply into her eyes and whispering sweet nothings for hours at a time…but I digress.

I have turned over a new leaf, however, and am committed to seeing some of these great games that I have never finished through to the end, because I think they will get better (this is why I am still on the Witcher). More casual gamers (and even some of the hardcores) are not going to take the time to do that, they will just get more selective - and dismissive about games after testing them - opting to just buy something else that will appeal more to them.
 
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The problem with longer games is that, in most cases at least, they aren't longer because there are even more links in the chain of highlights and set pieces but just because there are more trash mobs, repetition, padding, and walking around huge levels full of nothing standing between a link and the next. And I'm sure that regardless of age and background we all can find better things to do with our time.

So I personally welcome shorter, faster, and more to the point games. You can always add extremely ridiculous difficulty settings, additional routes, and extra challenges for us to keep coming back for more concise and straightforward gaming after the first run.

Please don't take this personally, but wouldn't that argument actually work the other way around? Like, if the only reason for us to play through most games is that we spent money on them then the pirate's position becomes actually much more understandable and relatable as a game's quality should be judged on its own instead of based on how much it did cost us to play it.


I semi-agree with you about the current trend. Padding, be it in the form of grind, excessively long dungeons or just copious amounts of backtracking is annoying and not very fun. But for a story to be truly engaging, it needs its highs and lows. You need time when you just get to know the different characters, when you get a feel for why you are doing what you are doing, when new characters and locations can be properly introduced. And the slow points will also make the large setpieces stand out even more. The mines of Moria would not have had nearly the same impact, if you had not had the rather lengthy section in Rivendale.


We tend to value that which we have spent time/resources to get more than that which was given to us for free. This is a well known fact within marketing (and that is why you get those silly scratchcards in your mailbox). When we have spent a lot of time/money to get something, we tend to try to tell ourselves that it was worth it (even if it really was not). Of course, if a game is good enough, it does not need this extra incentive (Dwarf fortress, a free game, has eaten more of my time than most Bethesda games have), but it helps for those games that you are not quite sure if you want to finish or not.
 
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My case with Assassin's Revelations is that it forces you to make grenades , it includes two sub-quests about grenades and in the first dungeon you go all the loot is grenade related . I don't want to use grenades FFS , i wand some money or new gear not British gunpowder ! and how about looting people on the ground while you are sneaking on the roof ? it defeats the very purpose of sneaking , it is a dumped down whitewash or what else you call it in English.
I can take some directions by games but i don't like to be forced into situations and this is one of the reasons i ditched Skyrim ( very annoyed that you had to start MQ in order to enchant your bow) and really used the last drop of my patience to finish DeusX HR ( very annoyed with the Chinese chick "fooling me").

I didn't spent a cent for the Revelations ( my brother bought it ) but i did bought DX:HR , i don't think that spending money has to do anything with ditching the game for being too stupid .
 
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"(very annoyed that you had to start MQ in order to enchant your bow) "

I don't get this part. Where are you forced to do this?
 
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Fnord said:
I semi-agree with you about the current trend. Padding, be it in the form of grind, excessively long dungeons or just copious amounts of backtracking is annoying and not very fun. But for a story to be truly engaging, it needs its highs and lows. You need time when you just get to know the different characters, when you get a feel for why you are doing what you are doing, when new characters and locations can be properly introduced. And the slow points will also make the large setpieces stand out even more. The mines of Moria would not have had nearly the same impact, if you had not had the rather lengthy section in Rivendale.

While I do not expect a story to be nothing but a succession of action scenes, I still expect the writing to live up to the same rules than the action does: If your writing is wasting time, get better writing. Like, really.

Writing can be as much of padding as meaningless action, meaningless puzzles, and meaningless exploration can. Creating twenty different events that amount to nothing but character X stopping the adventure to tell you "I'm really insecure and emo" is no less padding than creating a really long corridor of a dungeon and placing twenty slightly different variations of the same encounter on it, for example.

fnord said:
We tend to value that which we have spent time/resources to get more than that which was given to us for free. This is a well known fact within marketing (and that is why you get those silly scratchcards in your mailbox). When we have spent a lot of time/money to get something, we tend to try to tell ourselves that it was worth it (even if it really was not). Of course, if a game is good enough, it does not need this extra incentive (Dwarf fortress, a free game, has eaten more of my time than most Bethesda games have), but it helps for those games that you are not quite sure if you want to finish or not.

I understand that. However, if you are not sure about whether or not to finish a game until you remind yourself that you paid good money for it then was the game really worth finishing, and really worth being called good, or even passable? It was unable, as a game, to motivate you to finish it, to the point you actually needed to motivate yourself.

That's what I am arguing: Objectivity is born from detachment, and thus the less attached a given individual is to something, regardless of the form that attachment takes and the reasons that attachment exists in the first place, the more objective her assessment is.

That doesn't means you should strive to be an objective person all the time, as we are subjective creatures by the very manner in which our senses and mind work, but we should still keep in mind the nature of objectivity at least as a theoretical construct.

And, like, trying to throw an assessment aside because it isn't attached enough is kind of, say, not keeping it in mind even the bare minimum. That's kind of all I was saying.
 
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Originally Posted by GothicGothicness
hmmm, does the number include pirates? or buyers. If you buy a game for $50 you're probably going to have a lot more patience… and want to finish it.
Please don't take this personally, but wouldn't that argument actually work the other way around? Like, if the only reason for us to play through most games is that we spent money on them then the pirate's position becomes actually much more understandable and relatable as a game's quality should be judged on its own instead of based on how much it did cost us to play it.

The number including pirates would only make it a much more objective analysis of whether or not current gamers find the games themselves worthy of investing their time on.

Maybe I did misunderstand you, though. If so, I beg your pardon.

Guess Terraria should be dropped after 10-45 mins cause it costs only $2.50?
It doesn't work like that. Pirate or not, most gamers want to have fun. If it ain't fun, then why force yourself to finish it?

Because a lot of the best games, movies, books and so on even these days require some investment before they become enjoyable. If you pirate a game and don't like the first 2 hours you might just drop it. However if you bought it you might give it the 10 hours investment needed before it really becomes enjoyable.

Unforunately this has lead to a lot of mainstream stuff which doesn't require the initial investment and also never gets that good.
 
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While I do not expect a story to be nothing but a succession of action scenes, I still expect the writing to live up to the same rules than the action does: If your writing is wasting time, get better writing. Like, really.

Writing can be as much of padding as meaningless action, meaningless puzzles, and meaningless exploration can. Creating twenty different events that amount to nothing but character X stopping the adventure to tell you "I'm really insecure and emo" is no less padding than creating a really long corridor of a dungeon and placing twenty slightly different variations of the same encounter on it, for example.

Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were basically talking about games taking the God of war 3 approach, which is just a long sequence of set pieces, with no real rest time (those set pieces quickly lost their impact, because there were no base-line to compare them to.

Personally I enjoy games that takes the Planescape Torment approach (is it unfair to use one of the best games in existence as an example?). The game is a bit slow paced and very dialogue heavy (which I like). The game world is strange and very different from any other game world, but it also sets a good base line which makes the real unique encounters stand out. Fallout 1-2 also does this very well, the games are not the most fast paced games around, but this makes the special moments stand out even more.

I do agree with you in regards to padding. Dialogue that is just there to extend playtime is annoying. Not all dialogue needs to advance the plot, but all dialogue needs to be well written and interesting (and again planescape really stands out here. A lot of dialogue was just there for flavour, but it enhanced the game).
 
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GothicGothicness said:
Because a lot of the best games, movies, books and so on even these days require some investment before they become enjoyable. If you pirate a game and don't like the first 2 hours you might just drop it. However if you bought it you might give it the 10 hours investment needed before it really becomes enjoyable.

It kind of reminds me of something someone had as his signature on that other forum. Paraphrasing, it was about how if you only play a game for a couple of hours and don't like it you can't say it is bad because you did not play it enough, if you did play up to halfway through before leaving you can't say it is awful because you haven't seen all of it yet, and if you did play it to the end, you can't say it was awful because you obviously enjoyed it enough to finish it.

One of my favourite literature teacher always said that any author whose book you need to force yourself into reading even for a single paragraph has failed you as an author, and to the ovens it goes. Your initial reserve of interest, curiosity, enthusiasm, or hype should be more than enough for the author to capture you in the web of her or his prose and world, and if your original push is not enough for the author to do so you, like, there are far too many good books to read out there as to waste time with writers who aren't compatible with your own taste and interests.

The same can be said about videogames. There are no really great games out there that need more than the initial rush forward to capture you into its spell, and it is responsability of the designer to present the game in a compeling and intriguing way during that first encounter between work and reader. The reader has no duty towards the developer and the work other than opening it and reading the first few pages.

In other words, if they need an extra incentive to continue forward the game can be said to be badly designed. Even fifteen minutes are more than enough to give the player a good taste of the gameplay, the mood, the flow, and the plot, as well as to trap her imagination with vague promises of coolness and awesomeness to come. That doesn't means you need to throw everything cool into the beginning, not to go in medias res and the like. No, but the author is bound to find a way to make you want to learn more, see more, and experience more before you run out of attention. If they can't it is not your fault but theirs.

Take Bayonetta as an example, both because an over the top action game is an easy example to make and because almost everyone is of a mind about it being one of the best action games ever made. And also because I did not manage to find a video with the first fifteen minutes of Devil May Cry 3 instead, which would have been even better as half naked Dante is more than enough reason to play on and on, and on, and on, and on, and… Like, you get the idea.

Anyway,

Clicky click me!

Fifteen minutes and you already have a pretty good idea what kind of game you are playing, what kind of awesomeness awaits for you, and what kind of sass you are going to wade trough. From here on the game will get better and better, more and more over the top too, yet if you haven't enjoyed those fifteen minutes you are not going to enjoy the rest of it. If you have, you will. If you don't know, it is not really the game for you and you should leave it for a really dry season when even real life has left you hanging.

Or to use a role playing example, let's use Fnord's own and take Planescape Torment. By the time you have left the mortuary and started exploring around the city you have a pretty good idea of what kind of game you are playing and have had a taste of the mood, the style, the surreality, the mystery, and the weirdness that make it. If you are thinking that it is awesome, go ahead and keep playing. If you are thinking it kind of sucks, though, what's the point to keep wasting time on it just because others are telling you that you should enjoy it?

And now for a little bonus. Objectivity being born from detachment, how can you argue your judgement of a game you really like and enjoy as one of the best games ever, for example, is more fair than the judgement of those who did find it so awful as to not invest any time on it, other than the bare minimum to find it awful? Your blind investment of extra time, for if you still did not know whether or not it was something you did like the investment can't be described as anything but blind, is, by itself, attachment of a kind!

Fnord said:
Ah, I misunderstood you. I thought you were basically talking about games taking the God of war 3 approach, which is just a long sequence of set pieces, with no real rest time (those set pieces quickly lost their impact, because there were no base-line to compare them to.

I do believe a game should have no, say, dead time, but not that it should only be about set pieces and buttons of awesome, you are right on that. By not having dead time I mean that every single scene, line of dialogue, combat encounter, puzzle, room, character, etc, should be constructed with a mind towards economy and elegance and have both a meaning and a purpose, even if such meaning and purpose are just to be carefully constructed to create mood and a subtle tension, or to involve you emotionally, or whatever, as those elements will keep you glued to the screen and guessing, and will increase the effect of posterior elements.

Like, not every single line of dialogue should be pertinent to the plot but it should have a meaning and a purpose, be it subtle exposition of the setting, subtle exposition of the characters, establishing mood, etc. Dialogue just for dialogue's sake is kind of wasting time: If it isn't necessary and it doesn't have a point…
 
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bla bla bla….

In other words, if they need an extra incentive to continue forward the game can be said to be badly designed. Even fifteen minutes are more than enough to give the player a good taste of the gameplay, the mood, the flow, and the plot, as well as to trap her imagination with vague promises of coolness and awesomeness to come. That doesn't means you need to throw everything cool into the beginning, not to go in medias res and the like. No, but the author is bound to find a way to make you want to learn more, see more, and experience more before you run out of attention. If they can't it is not your fault but theirs.

…bla bla bla.

All that amount of writing doesn't hide the fact that you are describing an overly simplisitic viewpoint. It is very common that "greatness" often requires certain investment in order for that greatness to become visible.

Implying that 15 minutes should be enough to be able to judge a game is absolutely ridiculous. In your Youtube example it does work as it is clearly aimed to impress juvenile retards.
 
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