Dead State - DoubleBear Review Controversy

[rune_74]

^ Who gets to decide what exactly should a review contain? If while reviewing a game, saying that I like it, but also comment on its buggy status and additionally shed light on some malpractices to inform other buyers, then it becomes invalid? Why reviews exist if not to educate potential buyers, providing proper info? Noteworthy is that I am not slandering anyone, calling names, insulting or anything of that sorts.

About reading comprehension, it's a sign of sorts why *you* would selectively read only parts of my post and avoid answering the particular questions raised by me or the reviewer, and instead raise a strawman of technicalities about what a review "should" contain..you won't do it unless you have favourable bias with the developer, but that is beyond this topic, no?

If you area known malcontent specifically discussing the dev's or whatnot I would expect to get banned....why is that so hard to follow.

 

[aries100]

disclaimer: I hasn't played Dead State or followed this controversy. But I need to say this:

Isn't this why (big) companies do have PR-departments? I mean, to try to avoid these controversies and to try to control what the developers say to the media? Just in case a developer does what DoubleBear apparantly have done here.

To me, what the developers from DoubleBear has apparantly done is totally unacceptable. Since they have done this, apparantly, in their functions as developers. Developers like teachers, nurses, doctors should be able to be professional about this. And not take any reviews that doesn't like their product(s), i.e. games, as personal offense. I understand that, of course, this is how you might feel sometimes. But, in public, you do not show this. You're angry on your time, in your own house or in your office, not on the company's official forums, not on on the official twitter account and not on Steam while you're dealing with the public response to your game(s).

As I teacher I have often dealt with heartbroken students when they recieved say a middlegrade for a paper i.e. a C or even a D (I'm using the US grade scale here). And to be frank, they have also said that they have done their best, used 10 or 12 hours and poured their hearts and souls into writing the paper. And thats, when I, as their teacher, have to tell them that their paper simply wasn't written well enough to get a higher grade. Cooks in restaurant can do the same, they can spend like 10 or 12 hours on a menu, or a dish, but when reality hits and sets in, in the end it is the final result that counts.

And so it must be for indie developers as well.

 

[MigRib]

In the old times, reviews (and in this case I mean professional reviews, as in the "time of paper" there weren't any other reviews) were always being accused of favoring the reviewed company because of publicity. As an ex-journalist (who never had anything to do with gaming "journalism") I understand it. Big companies probably bought the good reviews with adds and gifts to the reviewers.
Nowadays it doesn't work like that. It seems that the present equivalent of the old paper magazine gaming journalist turned against the AAA publishers, maybe because publicity isn't what it used to be, and non-professional reviewers might as well be as important (or maybe more) than supposedly serious publications.
But this is not about serious or non-serious professional reviews, it's all about gamers opinions. They are not really reviewing, just stating their opinions in foruns, suggesting to buy or not to buy. So, is it really a review to post some opinion in a forum? Is that different if you're posting it here or in the Steam forum? I supose there is a difference, but only on the eyes of the company that developed the game. Other than that is just people shooting the breeze.

 

[aries100]

As one of those who recently have written a preview for a game here on the watch (Lords of Xulima), I definetely can attest that writing a preview, or a review, for a game, is a very difficult texttype or genre to write. Opinions are all well, and good, but they need to be backed up by real information on the game e.g. what is good and what is not so good, and what is bad etc.

 

[Aditya]

The posting rules are here.

https://support.steampowered.com/kb_article.php?ref=4045-USHJ-3810

Offensive or inappropriate reviews can be removed based on the discretion of the moderators.

Going by the 99% of the users on Dead State's steam gaming forum (also elsewhere), that review was anything but offensive or "inappropriate". Anyone who isn't personally biased towards the developers would agree to that. Which is why users are saying DB misused their powers to flag a review because it was not looking good for their profits. Which is why Brian said the actions of the developer who flagged this review are under internal review. Things are not so cut and dried, you see. You can't hide behind technicalities to evade problematic questions. And when you do that, you just reinforce the feeling that something shady is going on..

If you area known malcontent specifically discussing the dev's or whatnot I would expect to get banned….why is that so hard to follow.

He isn't targeting any dev on a personal level but questioning their business strategies, non-transparency to the paying customers and reluctance in answering his valid questions.

As one of those who recently have written a preview for a game here on the watch (Lords of Xulima), I definetely can attest that writing a preview, or a review, for a game, is a very difficult texttype or genre to write. Opinions are all well, and good, but they need to be backed up by real information on the game e.g. what is good and what is not so good, and what is bad etc.

True. Thus the reviewer has posted in detail WHY he is advising others to avoid purchaisng this game in the current state. He has provided background and given proper information so others can take an appropriate decision.

 

[Deleted User]

You know, it's just a sad state of affairs when trolls have to write "reviews" like this to persuade people not to buy the game. That is simply sad.

People gave their blood, sweat and tears to create this game. They've been working hard on it. To just ignore that is completely ignorant and pigheaded.

No wonder the guy got called a name by one of the devs. I can easily imagine how frustrated they must be when people act like this.

Trust me, I've been through the same thing with internet bullies, trolls, armchair criticizers, etc. It can be tough dealing with them, because they can easily frustrate you with their nonsense.

The best thing to do, as I said earlier, is ignore them and keep pushing forward. Don't let the negative people win. Shine your light of positivity on them and keep. Moving. Forward.

P.S. I would NEVER advise people to not purchase a game that people worked hard on. What a slap in the face to the developers. If you don't like the game, fine, don't buy it, move on. You don't need to go on a rampage trying to influence people to not buy the game. That is just despicable and evil.

 

[rune_74]

Going by the 99% of the users on Dead State's steam gaming forum (also elsewhere), that review was anything but offensive or "inappropriate". Anyone who isn't personally biased towards the developers would agree to that. Which is why users are saying DB misused their powers to flag a review because it was not looking good for their profits. Which is why Brian said the actions of the developer who flagged this review are under internal review. Things are not so cut and dried, you see. You can't hide behind technicalities to evade problematic questions. And when you do that, you just reinforce the feeling that something shady is going on..



He isn't targeting any dev on a personal level but questioning their business strategies, non-transparency to the paying customers and reluctance in answering his valid questions.



True. Thus the reviewer has posted in detail WHY he is advising others to avoid purchaisng this game in the current state. He has provided background and given proper information so others can take an appropriate decision.

You forgot to mention where he has demanded the developers provide him a personal apology for releasing the game. The poor guy was of course asking for that out of the goodness of his heart.

 

[Ithilien]

P.S. I would NEVER advise people to not purchase a game that people worked hard on. What a slap in the face to the developers. If you don't like the game, fine, don't buy it, move on. You don't need to go on a rampage trying to influence people to not buy the game. That is just despicable and evil.

I couldn't disagree more.

If there is something seriously wrong with the product I'm about to buy then I - as a customer - would like to know about it. I don't care about the hard work the developers may or may not have put down, what holds interest for me is the quality of the product.

I've already bought several copies of this particular game (as I really like the concept), and I hope it will turn out to be worth it.

 

[Aditya]

You forgot to mention where he has demanded the developers provide him a personal apology for releasing the game. The poor guy was of course asking for that out of the goodness of his heart.

He asked, not "demanded" an apology, after the devs repeatedly ignored his valid questions; and apology not to him personally but to all those buyers who were disillusioned after seeing that the game is bug-ridden and tons of critical bugs remained to be patched when the game was released. He would know this since he was one of the beta tester for the game.

By the way, I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to achieve by defending the actions of a developer who publicly abuse their paying customers?

 

[Deleted User]

I couldn't disagree more.

If there is something seriously wrong with the product I'm about to buy then I - as a customer - would like to know about it. I don't care about the hard work the developers may or may not have put down, what holds interest for me is the quality of the product.

I've already bought several copies of this particular game (as I really like the concept), and I hope it will turn out to be worth it.

But you're forgetting the all-important thing: A game review is subjective.

Even bugs are subjective. Some claim that Skyrim is the buggiest game ever. I had barely any bugs when I played it for 300+ hours.

Had I listened to the trolls who said, "Don't buy!!!", I would have never had that experience (and it was one of the best experiences ever for me).

So, I would never want to tell someone to not purchase a game. I say - purchase it, find out for yourself if you like it, if not, get your money back or whatever. But I would never troll people and scream "Don't buy!!!" for any game, because my experience is subjective.

I would want to encourage people to try for themselves and see.

 

[Thrasher]

Going by the 99% of the users on Dead State's steam gaming forum (also elsewhere), that review was anything but offensive or "inappropriate". Anyone who isn't personally biased towards the developers would agree to that. Which is why users are saying DB misused their powers to flag a review because it was not looking good for their profits. Which is why Brian said the actions of the developer who flagged this review are under internal review. Things are not so cut and dried, you see. You can't hide behind technicalities to evade problematic questions. And when you do that, you just reinforce the feeling that something shady is going on..



He isn't targeting any dev on a personal level but questioning their business strategies, non-transparency to the paying customers and reluctance in answering his valid questions.



True. Thus the reviewer has posted in detail WHY he is advising others to avoid purchaisng this game in the current state. He has provided background and given proper information so others can take an appropriate decision.

Except the review you snapshot has no specific info. Just whining about bugs in general and a lot of admonition against the devs.

 

[Aditya]

^ 'Whining' about bugs?! lol..you seems to have lost objectivity in your blind defense of the devs. We as gamers have right to "whine" about unfinished products and bugs. Or should people only "whine" about bugs in Bethesda/EA/Ubisoft products??

His opinion review was expected to contain tons of bug listings? He tried to communicate with the devs on the official forums regarding specifics but he was ignored, bullied by fans and then his threads were locked there. Indeed, that communication is nowhere to be found now. Guess who could be responsible for that??

 

[Thrasher]

That is not a proper review. Period. Seems appropriate to be deleted if all it contains is whining and dev bashing. No objective info about gameplay and details about bugs encountered is a poor review.

 

[Aditya]

Right, criticism over the quality of a product and questioning malpractices of devs is forbidden. Steam user reviews should only contain glowing praise..no negativity, nopes. You sure have some gold standards for these things.

But what are your standards regarding developer's public abuse of paying customers?

 

[rune_74]

He asked, not "demanded" an apology, after the devs repeatedly ignored his valid questions; and apology not to him personally but to all those buyers who were disillusioned after seeing that the game is bug-ridden and tons of critical bugs remained to be patched when the game was released. He would know this since he was one of the beta tester for the game.

By the way, I'm curious, what exactly are you trying to achieve by defending the actions of a developer who publicly abuse their paying customers?

I'm not sure what you are getting at?

You keep claiming this upstanding innocent was a beta tester like that is some shining example of his worthiness....news flash, a lot of people were beta testers! He wasn't the only one....there was most likely in the hundreds....hell even I was a beta tester.

Note there were not hundreds of reviews like his? Ever ask yourself why?

I don't think they abused this guy...I think he abused them and they lashed out, I think it is unfortunate to be honest nobody wins here. Your version of asked is different then mine.

I'm not going to be one of the Internet people that gang on to lambast a company over one guy...notice there isn't a bunch of people saying they did this to them?

 

[rune_74]

Right, criticism over the quality of a product and questioning malpractices of devs is forbidden. Steam user reviews should only contain glowing praise..no negativity, nopes. You sure have some gold standards for these things.

But what are your standards regarding developer's public abuse of paying customers?

Nothing double ear did was malpractice geez.

 

[Aditya]

I'm not sure what you are getting at?

You keep claiming this upstanding innocent was a beta tester like that is some shining example of his worthiness….news flash, a lot of people were beta testers! He wasn't the only one….there was most likely in the hundreds….hell even I was a beta tester.

Note there were not hundreds of reviews like his? Ever ask yourself why?

I don't think they abused this guy…I think he abused them and they lashed out, I think it is unfortunate to be honest nobody wins here. Your version of asked is different then mine.

I'm not going to be one of the Internet people that gang on to lambast a company over one guy…notice there isn't a bunch of people saying they did this to them?

I am saying he was a beta tester to highlight the fact that he would have better knowledge of pending bugs than a normal user.

There were always negative reviews for the game and more kept coming as players progressed more (or couldn't).

About what people are actually saying, and how many are actually supporting the reviewer, go visit the Steam forums, Reddit or Metacritic. You'd be surprised!

And oh, I am as much an alt account as you are a shill of DB.

 

[rune_74]

I am saying he is beta tester to highlight the fact that he would have better knowledge of pending bugs than a normal user.

There were always negative reviews for the game and more kept coming as players progressed more (or couldn't).

About what people are actually saying, and how many are actually supporting the reviewer, go visit the Steam forums, Reddit or Metacritic. You'd be surprised!

And oh, I am as much an alt account as you are a shill of DB.

nice....you seem legit.


Funny I'm on the steam comments and isn't nearly as bad? Note many piled on after this guy made it a mission to get people involved. It seems over the top and if he was just mad about his review taken down(note you don't mention that he was banned from their forums before this)


So, what is the end game of those that want the company to pay?

 

[Aditya]

Is it that hard for you to understand that people can voluntarily support the reviewer and are voicing their opinions against the developers themselves? And anyways there is a practical limitation on how far a sole person can reach out and influence random strangers on Internet to participate in his/her "mission" to take on developers. It doesn't work that way. People will participate only when they believe in it..and right now, majority of users blame DB for censorship and public abuse of customers.

Anyways, I am done discussing this. As someone said, let the market decide the fate of DB.

 

[Thrasher]

Right, criticism over the quality of a product and questioning malpractices of devs is forbidden. Steam user reviews should only contain glowing praise..no negativity, nopes. You sure have some gold standards for these things.

But what are your standards regarding developer's public abuse of paying customers?

Talk about strawmanning… If you want a discussion, you're going to have start being more reasonable.