I won't be playing it for quite awhile. I have too many other games I want to play right now, and I'm also wary of playing crowd-funded games at release after the Divinity: OS and Wasteland 2 debacles.
Pillars of Eternity
D
DArtagnan
Guest
Yes, I've noticed ranges being very short in general in this game - which I hate, but I guess it's a balance thing because of issues with pathfinding and kiting.
Doesn anybody know if the information about skills and companions in the official wiki is still accurate?
And how about dialog checkes? Are they based on attributes alone?
And how about dialog checkes? Are they based on attributes alone?
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Name and class is accurate for companions, never checked pass that.
Skill's description is so-so* and the starting skill attribution isn't 100% accurate anymore I believe.
Dialog checks are attributes and skill based. You can have stuff like [Int 11], [Lore 6] or [Int11/Lore6]. In the last case, I believe it takes whichever is higher. I played most of the BB with that information off and I plan to play the main game the same way.
*Lore is also required to cast spell from scrolls
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I read a dev post last week (older one that I can't find right now) that they tried as much as possible to use all stats evenly in dialogues. I do not remember if skills were involved in that discussion or not, but I suspect it is similar. This might include scripted events though, that was unclear.
There was also a warning that picking a stat/skill dialog choice doesn't mean it always has positive results. Just like picking a dialog choice with a disposition associated to it doesn't always mean you'll get what you want. You need to pay attention to whom you are talking.
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Oh? I didn't know this part. Monk and Barbarian wouldn't surprise me, but no Rogues? that would be a first. Now, I do understand that 'Rogue' in this game is not the same as in more traditional RPGs, where rogues are the 'picklockers/trap disarmers' and instead they're just positional DPSers or 'interrupters', so that's probably why.
D
DArtagnan
Guest
There are definitely locks to be picked in the game, but it seems like it's a skill that anyone can take. Not sure if Rogues are more suited for that task as usual, but I'd assume so.
Mechanics is used to pick locks, find traps and disarm (and pick-up) traps. Rogue start with a +2 in Mechanics. There are also backgrounds that increase Mechanics.
Skill cost increase with levels, so you save quite a few skill points you can use elsewhere by picking a Rogue to focus on Mechanics.
Skill cost increase with levels, so you save quite a few skill points you can use elsewhere by picking a Rogue to focus on Mechanics.
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If I decide to use the in-game companions I may go with rogue too as I hear that a wizard can be your first companion. I like to build my mages from scratch, but if you get one early enough....
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You get a wizard and fighter pretty early.
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Druid look solid as a glue guy but that's not usually my first pick, I usually like to play a caster. From what I've been seeing of mechanics and classes the overall design is pretty interesting and all classes look good. It's going to be a tough choice both picking a main character and rounding out a party.
Thrasher
Wheeee!
Ah, no rogue companion? That changes things. Guess I'll be playing a rogue. Bummer.
Kordanor
Wastelander
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On XP:
While you do not get XP by killing stuff, you get XP by filling out the grimoire. Which you do by killing stuff. But if its full it's full and you don't get any more xp. Imho thats pretty perfect. In addition there is a hard cap of 12 levels which you probably reach rather easily by doing lots of side quests. Don't see any aspect of that which isn't good.
On Rogue Character: You don't need one.
The 5 Skills are universal and can be increased by >all< characters. For example you can have a Mage or a barbarian in the group which can train mechanics up to 10 to pick all locks. No need for a rogue.
There are however two things which increase your starting attributes. Which is your class and the background.
To set that in perspective however I need to explain how the skill system works:
Each level you get 6 points.
To increase a skill from 0 to 1 you need to spend 1 point. To increase it to 2 you need to spend another 2 points. To increase it to 3 another 3 points.
Now the starting points are not just starting points but "bonus points".
So if you have 2 starting points in Mechanics, this means that increasing your skill from 2 to 3 only costs 1 point.
So these 2 points should not be seen as 3 skillpoints. But instead of the last increases you intend for the character. Let's say if you want a character with 10 in mechanics. The last two points in mechanics would cost 10 and 9 points. So the 2 bonus points are worth basically 19 skillpoints (out of 66 total due to 11 levelups * 6 points).
So increasing a skill to 10 on a character without any bonuses on it costs 55 points out of 66 available.
The class adds up to 2 to one skill, and the background adds up to 2 to one skill as well.
Now regarding my choice:
I will probably go with Rogue. Not because of the before mentioned mechanics.
In fact my rogue will not increase mechanics and only increase stealth by a bit (as should each party member). Instead I will push lore to 10 as I want to use this in dialoges (skills are used there as well).
What I don't like at the moment is that rogues can get a backstabtalent at level 2 which they can only use if they are invisible, which you can only be if you use another talent, which you get on level 4 and is 2 times per rest. So that is pretty horrible and unlike they change that till release I wont use both of them.
My plan is to go ruffian, which gives a accuracy bonus on Blunderbuss (aka medieval Shotgun) and stilettos at the same time, which are fast weapons which ignore some armor. That way I can get used to both systems and likely enter a combat by shooting once with my gun and then heading into melee.
While you do not get XP by killing stuff, you get XP by filling out the grimoire. Which you do by killing stuff. But if its full it's full and you don't get any more xp. Imho thats pretty perfect. In addition there is a hard cap of 12 levels which you probably reach rather easily by doing lots of side quests. Don't see any aspect of that which isn't good.
On Rogue Character: You don't need one.
The 5 Skills are universal and can be increased by >all< characters. For example you can have a Mage or a barbarian in the group which can train mechanics up to 10 to pick all locks. No need for a rogue.
There are however two things which increase your starting attributes. Which is your class and the background.
To set that in perspective however I need to explain how the skill system works:
Each level you get 6 points.
To increase a skill from 0 to 1 you need to spend 1 point. To increase it to 2 you need to spend another 2 points. To increase it to 3 another 3 points.
Now the starting points are not just starting points but "bonus points".
So if you have 2 starting points in Mechanics, this means that increasing your skill from 2 to 3 only costs 1 point.
So these 2 points should not be seen as 3 skillpoints. But instead of the last increases you intend for the character. Let's say if you want a character with 10 in mechanics. The last two points in mechanics would cost 10 and 9 points. So the 2 bonus points are worth basically 19 skillpoints (out of 66 total due to 11 levelups * 6 points).
So increasing a skill to 10 on a character without any bonuses on it costs 55 points out of 66 available.
The class adds up to 2 to one skill, and the background adds up to 2 to one skill as well.
Now regarding my choice:
I will probably go with Rogue. Not because of the before mentioned mechanics.
In fact my rogue will not increase mechanics and only increase stealth by a bit (as should each party member). Instead I will push lore to 10 as I want to use this in dialoges (skills are used there as well).
What I don't like at the moment is that rogues can get a backstabtalent at level 2 which they can only use if they are invisible, which you can only be if you use another talent, which you get on level 4 and is 2 times per rest. So that is pretty horrible and unlike they change that till release I wont use both of them.
My plan is to go ruffian, which gives a accuracy bonus on Blunderbuss (aka medieval Shotgun) and stilettos at the same time, which are fast weapons which ignore some armor. That way I can get used to both systems and likely enter a combat by shooting once with my gun and then heading into melee.
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Only 5 non-combat skills? And all classes can max out any given skill?
I can't say I like the way that sounds...
I can't say I like the way that sounds...
Kordanor
Wastelander
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There are only 5 non-combat skills yes. "Maxing out" is relative, as there isn't a max value from what I now. The theoretical maximum is 2 bonus from background 2 bonus by class, so 4 bonus points and with the 66 points you get to 11, so 15 total. But the question is whether you will ever need these 15.
But same as Abilities besides of dialogues there are no breakpoints.
What I totally hated in wasteland for example was that only an int value of 3, 6 and 9 (or some other values) made any sense as it brought an additional skillpoint per level. Same for the action point system. So if you chose anything in between your character is gimped. No way to make it sound better.
Thats not the case in Pillars. All the Skills and all the Abilities are "floating" and each point gives exactly the same bonus as the previous one.
With mechanics for example, which is also used for lockpicking you can also open locks if you do not have the apropriate skill. But you will need less lockpicks.
Well, lore might actually have a break point as you need a certain lore to cast scrolls from spells. Athletics makes your character getting tired less fast. Stealth makes you sneak better and survival increases efficiency of potions. But you might also want to increase your athletics on all your characters by a couple of points. Because if you are climbing up some broken stairs, a character with less than a certain number might fall down and get a debuff, which means you will need to rest.
So to me this system sounds rather good and it allows combinations pretty much to your liking. Personally I will Increase lore to 10 on my main for dialogues and push athletics and stealth to 3 or 4 or so.
With another character I will push Athletics to 10, with another one I will focus on both Mechanics and Stealth to use him as scout. And then I will also take one character and increase his survival skill.
Again your choice in dialoges is limited to your main character anyways. So regarding the "problem" in W2 where you always have someone for every skillcheck: this wont happen, as yo can only use the main character in dialogues and it's simply not possible to have all skills high enough.
Then again it's also not always the best solution to use these options in dialogues.
Actually they can mislead you into bad decisions. Lets say you got 2 options to be diplomatic and one [Might] option to intimidate. This [Might] Option might be tempting but it might be the only option which leads to a fight or has a "worse" outcome than the others. So you have to think for yourself and should autoselect anything whenever there is an [Attribute] infront of it.
But same as Abilities besides of dialogues there are no breakpoints.
What I totally hated in wasteland for example was that only an int value of 3, 6 and 9 (or some other values) made any sense as it brought an additional skillpoint per level. Same for the action point system. So if you chose anything in between your character is gimped. No way to make it sound better.
Thats not the case in Pillars. All the Skills and all the Abilities are "floating" and each point gives exactly the same bonus as the previous one.
With mechanics for example, which is also used for lockpicking you can also open locks if you do not have the apropriate skill. But you will need less lockpicks.
Well, lore might actually have a break point as you need a certain lore to cast scrolls from spells. Athletics makes your character getting tired less fast. Stealth makes you sneak better and survival increases efficiency of potions. But you might also want to increase your athletics on all your characters by a couple of points. Because if you are climbing up some broken stairs, a character with less than a certain number might fall down and get a debuff, which means you will need to rest.
So to me this system sounds rather good and it allows combinations pretty much to your liking. Personally I will Increase lore to 10 on my main for dialogues and push athletics and stealth to 3 or 4 or so.
With another character I will push Athletics to 10, with another one I will focus on both Mechanics and Stealth to use him as scout. And then I will also take one character and increase his survival skill.
Again your choice in dialoges is limited to your main character anyways. So regarding the "problem" in W2 where you always have someone for every skillcheck: this wont happen, as yo can only use the main character in dialogues and it's simply not possible to have all skills high enough.
Then again it's also not always the best solution to use these options in dialogues.
Actually they can mislead you into bad decisions. Lets say you got 2 options to be diplomatic and one [Might] option to intimidate. This [Might] Option might be tempting but it might be the only option which leads to a fight or has a "worse" outcome than the others. So you have to think for yourself and should autoselect anything whenever there is an [Attribute] infront of it.
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Nerevarine
Keeper of the Watch
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I actually quite like how open character development sounds. A lot, actually. That was always my biggest complaint about D&D - that system was far too rigid, forcing you to go down a very class-specific path, which took all the fun out of character development for me.
This sounds more along the lines of Fallout 1/2 or Arcanum, where you couldn't be a "jack of all trades" but you certainly could get very creative with your character build.
This sounds more along the lines of Fallout 1/2 or Arcanum, where you couldn't be a "jack of all trades" but you certainly could get very creative with your character build.
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