Global warming one big hoax?

[JemyM]

You're still quoting out of context!! I've lectured and taught Ethics as well, and you display a very limited understanding of the historical complexities inherent in the subject!! Let's debate Aristotle sometime!!

Wise men do not agree and the simpleminded follow whoever come to them first. The bible is either very simple, or its very complicated. For two thousand years biblical scholars have tried to decipher it's content, attempting to find meanings in rather simple words.
The common apology is that what's written is not there. God works in mysterious ways. You are reading it wrong. You are missing context. It's from his time, it's not like that anymore. etc.
They say we are meant to live our lives according to the bible. That it's the foundation of our culture. Your sig says "if god says it, that settles it" which is a politically charged smackdown argument that only holds power within christian communities. I have heard that argument used on stuff that is not even in the bible, but instead in specific branches of the christian community in some countries. Branches that use the christian spell to gain votes for not so friendly agendas.
Someone who want to tell me that the bible shows family value are not only reading out of context, they make things up from the air. Or maybe christians just say "family values" when they actually mean "we hate them gay people".

As someone who live in an average sized city which is also the center of phone advertisement in sweden, I deal with liars every day. I have learned the value of being a sceptic and I personally go with the one who tell me the evidence before the one who tell me to ignore the evidence. I find this to be a rational philosophy.

I have my own head and I do not need others explanations. I am not reading things less or more right than anyone else. I am not reading out of context either. I have compared the bible to it's time, I have compared the bible to other religions, I have compared the bible to what we know about history, I have compared the bible to modern culture, modern cults, modern manipulation techniques and most importantly I have compared the bible to itself. I have spent way more time with this book and it's history than your average christian have done. I cannot tell you exactly when I passed from devoted christian to a militant atheist but it was part of my struggle to get closer to god by learning more.

Placing it all together, the new testament is an apocalyptic religion which was quite popular around the region at the time. From within the writings themselves I see that Matthew, Luke, Mark, John and Paul have a different agenda, all using "Jesus" as catalyst for their different views. Using context I find that the stories are highly contradicting within themselves and their messages are quite different compared to the "christianity primer" of today.

 

[mytgroo]

Here goes. There has been no new investment in refineries by the oil companies. From a business standpoint, it costs too much to build new oil refineries. All of the existing oil refineries are close to full capacity. In the last year for example 97 new ethanol refineries were built in the United States. There is a need to build more fuel capacity. Increases in profitability come from increases in efficiency and design for oil. This generates more money for existing operations and does not create new jobs or improve the economy. It is a cash cow that requires little investment or improvement for a focused group to make money. It is good for a small group of people, but it increasingly is becoming a danger to economic stability because of the high prices which concentrate wealth excessively. Monopolies on wealth are generally broken up eventually. The best way to do it is free competition-- Exxon, BP should be broken into smaller companies that are more competitive, much like Ma Bell was broken up.

The majority of new fuel capacity in terms of refineries is for ethanol and biodiesel. It is a slow process initially, but there will eventually be expanded capacity for biomass fuels taking up a lot of slack for energy. More cars are becoming flexible fuel E85, and it is becoming easier to buy biodiesel for diesel engines. The process is already happening. It is a choice of how the process is going to go formward. The cost for corn ethanol is very high for example. However, with research and investment, cellulosic ethanol, sugar cane ethanol, rapeseed or algae biodiesel could replace corn ethanol fairly quickly. It really is a matter of how quickly we want to change.

 

[Squeek]

Thank you for putting words, and very eloquently and systematically to boot, to all the thoughts and feelings I've harbored for years concerning the subject of religion. It has been a real pleasure (and educational) to read your comments JemyM. My hat is off to you

I felt the same way about this quote from the movie, Secondhand Lions:

Sometimes the things that may or may not be true are the things a man needs to believe in the most. That people are basically good; that honor, courage, and virtue mean everything; that power and money, money and power mean nothing; that good always triumphs over evil; and I want you to remember this, that love... true love never dies. You remember that, boy. You remember that. Doesn't matter if it's true or not. You see, a man should believe in those things, because those are the things worth believing in.

You're welcome to your points of view, JemyM and fatBastard, but I don't mind saying I feel a lot better about mine.

 

[JemyM]

You're welcome to your points of view, JemyM and fatBastard, but I don't mind saying I feel a lot better about mine.

Points of view about evidence is ok. Completely ignoring evidence is delusional.

 

[Bartacus]

If that is what you have to say about the human rights fine. Just do not blame me for understanding your religion better than you do.

You don't understand zip about it, Jenny and you're full of shit. I expect better from a woman who has your IQ (and I would like to note it's less then mine) If you tell that family values are not important in the bible it's you who made up things out of thin air

I will tell her to never ever let anyone tell her that she were created after men, or that she is a second class human. I will tell her that she or her family line have done nothing wrong and evolved next to men and have the same value.

Where the hell did you get that idea? It tells about that man was created before woman, but never does it tell that a woman is created as a second class human, that 's just you dillusional mind playing parts.

Jesus... family values?

Yes, more then you do now, because he looks to the whole world as brothers and sisters, while you try to see the differences.

About your commandments -> it's called then ten commandments because they all have the same value, so your previous quote about tells me again your reading of the bible is flawed!

The bible itself never asks to kill people, it is people who read it flawed, like you, but unlike you (I hope) used it for their own power and benefits.

As someone who live in an average sized city which is also the center of phone advertisement in sweden, I deal with liars every day. I have learned the value of being a sceptic and I personally go with the one who tell me the evidence before the one who tell me to ignore the evidence. I find this to be a rational philosophy.

Now that eplains a lot -> you see a web of lies everywhere even when there isn't one.

Points of view about evidence is ok. Completely ignoring evidence is delusional.

Indeed, so why are you delusional?

 

[Ionstormsucks]

ISS--come back to see how your thread has mutated? I'm staying out of the now nicely boiling cauldron myself

Haha, ya... well, I always followed the thread, but I had never expected that it would become so explosive. A bit of a shame that we're discussing two very interesting topics in one thread, but I admit it - mea culpa (and that of some others who couldn't resist the temptation).

But you know, the thing that bothers me in the "whole evolution vs. clever design" discussion is that people on both sides always seem to advocate the most extreme position possible. That certainly has to do with the fact that most natural scientists are atheists and that religion is traditionaly measured in strength of faith. And that basically leads to what happens in this thread - suddenly it's not anymore about certain aspects of science or religion, it's about whole concepts.

I believe that religion is an absolutely great concept. I have to admit that I'm something of an atheist, but it must be great if you have the strength to believe in something. It certainly makes life easier. For example in times of crisis, etc. But I also have to tell you that I think religion has a problem - it never questions itself. If you develop a scientific theory the first ones to take it apart will be your fellow academics. Criticism comes mainly from the inside. Religion however doesn't do that - criticism comes, with very few expetions, from the outside.
Since Darwin came up with his theory it was questioned again and again from academics as well as the ouside world (e.g. religious groups, etc.). It somehow has survived all this criticism... And this is just one field of science - similar processes happen in all natural sciences on a daily basis.
In the last 500 years the Catholic Church has questioned itself exactely once and that had rather tragic consequences.

And that is exactely why I think that discussing evolution with religious people or groups is an absolute waste of time. Not because of what they believe in is necessarily wrong, but because they are not willing to question it.

 

[JemyM]

You don't understand zip about it, Jenny and you're full of shit. I expect better from a woman who has your IQ (and I would like to note it's less then mine) If you tell that family values are not important in the bible it's you who made up things out of thin air

I understand all of it. I am also not a woman. I would not understand any woman who agree they should be classed second rate humans because religion say so... have they no pride?

Yes. The bible is terrible when it comes to family values. Neither Jesus or Paul had a family nor did he any respect towards families. The Jesus character is a apocalyptic prophet who's basic idea about family is: "The world is ending, drop everything you have and join me, including your family". That's all. The bit about leaving family is stressed in at least four places.

The idea that Jesus is a role model for family values is BS.

Where the hell did you get that idea? It tells about that man was created before woman, but never does it tell that a woman is created as a second class human, that 's just you dillusional mind playing parts.

Men was not created before women. Female seduction/stupidity did not doom mankind to eternal suffering. Women have the right to speak. Women have the right to education. If you are a christian you deny yourself all theese rights. Maybe you never took the chance to read what you are trying to promote?

"The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."

"As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to. So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan."

No self respecting woman would support dogma like that.

Yes, more then you do now, because he looks to the whole world as brothers and sisters, while you try to see the differences.

Actually, he only looks to his community as brothers and sisters and condemn everybody else. Christianity is a sect that seeks world dominion, not charity, tolerance or friendship. It's all there, in the bible. Did you knew that the most common reason people give why they converted from christianity to atheism? They actually read the bible.

About your commandments -> it's called then ten commandments because they all have the same value, so your previous quote about tells me again your reading of the bible is flawed!

Not at all. Jesus speaks very clear on this regard when he's pushed with the question "what is the most important thing". He enlists love for god as the most important virtue. Most sober adults would probably say "do not kill".

The bible itself never asks to kill people, it is people who read it flawed, like you, but unlike you (I hope) used it for their own power and benefits.

The bible itself tells you repeatidly who you should kill. If you havnt even read your own bible, why do you support it?

Now that eplains a lot -> you see a web of lies everywhere even when there isn't one. Indeed, so why are you delusional?

Im not the one blindly supporting a dogma I have not read. I am an openminded individual so I have read it all.

 

[Pladio]

Like I said in my PM; (I also know you're talking about it more because you know more about it, but) religion is not only Christianity. Most people also believe that the Bible is not to be read literally, Judaism has more books explaining the Old Testament than the Old Testament has. Judaism has the Talmud, the Gmara, the Mishna, which are all divided in more books. Buddhism has a lot of scholars researching their old scriptures too. You're also forgetting that there are more than one view/perspective for every religion.
You can't even take Christianity as one religion.

There is no representation of god in Catholicism. There are of course representations of Jesus Christ, but that's not quite the same.

Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity. Now there are two possibilities here. Either Jesus is also God and there are depictions of him, even in Churches (Mostly Catholic churches I believe), or you have three Gods, God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus which isn't even monotheism then.

The "no killing" is common sense for any non christian. In fact, the "no killing" rule was in effect in Egypt 1000-3000 years prior to the first old testament were written. Would you say "no killing" is important? Then let me ask you why it's the sixth commandment, placed after laws like "Do not make any idols" and "Do not worship any other gods" and why there are tales within the bible in which they kill people who do that.

Because that's the whole point of the ten commandments, which is to show that not obeying to any those commandments was punishable by death.
There is also a problem here where belief states the Old Testament wasn't written in 650 B.C. but about 1000 years earlier.
And you are mistaken about no killing being common sense as you can see that first of all people still do it and I read an article in the papers about clans in Afghanistan murdering each other for trespassing (this even happens in the US actually). In the most 'civilized' country in the world people have an organization rooting for weapons. It's a right in the US to carry weapons and you're saying it's common sense not to kill ?
For me it is, but it isn't for everyone. Even here in Belgium the prisons are overpopulated, because they are stealing, killing... (which two simple rules written thousands of years ago and if adhered to, then this would not be happening...)

Actually, he only looks to his community as brothers and sisters and condemn everybody else. Christianity is a sect that seeks world dominion, not charity, tolerance or friendship. It's all there, in the bible. Did you knew that the most common reason people give why they converted from christianity to atheism? They actually read the bible.

Either some thing's wrong with Christianity then or people are reading it wrong...

Second of all, Genesis is discrimating to women in a way that I find unexcuseable. Not even in the pagan myths that inspired Genesis, they were that degrading to "the first lady". When you distance yourself from Genesis and understand the concept of women evolving next to men, not after them, and that they never messed around with any apple, then you realise just how moraly offensive Genesis is by modern ethics of gender equality. If I ever get a girl, I will tell her to never ever let anyone tell her that she were created after men, or that she is a second class human. I will tell her that she or her family line have done nothing wrong and evolved next to men and have the same value.

I don't believe it was meant to mean that women are inferior to men.
I think that in Judaism, women are regarded on a higher spiritual level than men and that is why they are not supposed to practice all the same rituals men do.
All higher scholars from most religions also don't believe it was an apple but a grapevine (I think that's how you're supposed to say it in English).

Also about homosexuality, according to religious beliefs, it is not natural for someone to be with someone of the same sex. The most important reason being is that they cannot reproduce as normal couples would.

"The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

Jesus said this ?

I have my own head and I do not need others explanations. I am not reading things less or more right than anyone else. I am not reading out of context either. I have compared the bible to it's time, I have compared the bible to other religions, I have compared the bible to what we know about history, I have compared the bible to modern culture, modern cults, modern manipulation techniques and most importantly I have compared the bible to itself. I have spent way more time with this book and it's history than your average christian have done. I cannot tell you exactly when I passed from devoted christian to a militant atheist but it was part of my struggle to get closer to god by learning more.

Have you also read the Jewish and Muslim sides of the Bible ?
Not just reread the bible in Arab or Hebrew, I mean with all their explanations in it.
Many Rabbis and Jewish historians have been trying to decipher the meaning of each word in the Bible for millennia. I don't believe that just reading the Bible in its self gives you enough information about it.

I am not interested enough to study theology or for that regard study the whole bible from A to Z, but I know for a fact it isn't as easy as just reading it as a novel...

Points of view about evidence is ok. Completely ignoring evidence is delusional.

Not really. Do you know how many people have been falsely convicted of crimes because there was evidence against them found with systems that now seems to be flawed. Evidence changes over time.

More likely a defense for someone who have something to win on keeping christianity in it's current form.

Why? If god exists then he can do everything he wants. So anything is possible, no ?

 

[Alrik Fassbauer]

*zaps in*

Unfortunately the discussions are not being led by Geologists.

I've studied this for several years and I can - no, must - say that climate changes are NORMAL - seen from a certain perspective.

During the Ice Ages, we actually had warm intervals with a jump of several grades Celsius within a few hundred years !

Climate changes are normal for me - from THAT pojnt of view.

What definitively is N OT normal to me is how humans are raping the Earth with their greed ror raw materials. Cutting down huge forests for Soy is only the latest problem, and the Orang Utan is currently being hunted and killed in its home territories because of huge monocultures of palm trees - for their oil, which becomes more & more used by the inustries.

Enormous holes are being dug for raw materials, leaving nothing but - holes. For the later generations.

Our current generations are so much consuming MASSES of raw materials and of energy that the later genrations - I'm absolutely convinced of that - will seek out our waste deposits as very, very valuable, even precious resources ...

We are currently simply acting like Vampyres : Sucking the future of our following generations out of this planet.

So, to me, RPGs like Fallout aren't just pure imagination; to me, they are indeed a possible future of this planet, seriously.


*zaps out*

 

[Ubereil]

Why? If god exists then he can do everything he wants. So anything is possible, no ?

Can God create a stone that is so big not even God can move it?

And on the US being the most civilized country in the world, let me quote Oscar Wilde: "[SIZE=-1]America is the only country that went from barbarism to decadence without civilization in between." (I don't know if it's true, but it sure is funny .)

Übereil
[/SIZE]

 

[Bartacus]

I understand all of it. I am also not a woman. I would not understand any woman who agree they should be classed second rate humans because religion say so... have they no pride?

Yes. The bible is terrible when it comes to family values. Neither Jesus or Paul had a family nor did he any respect towards families. The Jesus character is a apocalyptic prophet who's basic idea about family is: "The world is ending, drop everything you have and join me, including your family". That's all. The bit about leaving family is stressed in at least four places.

The idea that Jesus is a role model for family values is BS.

Men was not created before women. Female seduction/stupidity did not doom mankind to eternal suffering. Women have the right to speak. Women have the right to education. If you are a christian you deny yourself all theese rights. Maybe you never took the chance to read what you are trying to promote?

"The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says.
If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is improper for a woman to speak in church."

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as it is fit in the Lord."

"As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to. So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan."

No self respecting woman would support dogma like that.

Actually, he only looks to his community as brothers and sisters and condemn everybody else. Christianity is a sect that seeks world dominion, not charity, tolerance or friendship. It's all there, in the bible. Did you knew that the most common reason people give why they converted from christianity to atheism? They actually read the bible.

Not at all. Jesus speaks very clear on this regard when he's pushed with the question "what is the most important thing". He enlists love for god as the most important virtue. Most sober adults would probably say "do not kill".

The bible itself tells you repeatidly who you should kill. If you havnt even read your own bible, why do you support it?

Im not the one blindly supporting a dogma I have not read. I am an openminded individual so I have read it all.

All what you're posting here are nothing but simplistic lies, you're nothing but a very poor minded soul and open for nothing then your own truth.
Never did Jesus encourage people to leave their homes, they chose to follow him. You say men wasn't created before woman -> How would you know, you weren't there, so cut the crap with your 'I have all the knowledge and wisdom' act.
If you actually read the bible you will find no such BS as you have quoted here about wives. Is it the lord that was speaking? NO! It was about someone writing down a story from his point of view and that he might be womenunfriendly doesn't make the bible.

Atheïsm is a sect that seeks to eliminate any religion and seeks for world domination. Your openminded approach is a hoax, cause we are all doomed by our origins. Your blind with your atheïstic dogma's that all religions are evil and certainly the ones that have a voice (publical party) in your country.

 

[Pladio]

I actually think both of you are a bit too extreme in your views...

God should be able to create a stone that he cannot lift. As he will be able to make it so that he can lift it and not lift at the same time.

 

[Ionstormsucks]

All what you're posting here are nothing but simplistic lies, you're nothing but a very poor minded soul and open for nothing then your own truth.
Never did Jesus encourage people to leave their homes, they chose to follow him. You say men wasn't created before woman -> How would you know, you weren't there, so cut the crap with your 'I have all the knowledge and wisdom' act.
If you actually read the bible you will find no such BS as you have quoted here about wives. Is it the lord that was speaking? NO! It was about someone writing down a story from his point of view and that he might be womenunfriendly doesn't make the bible.

Atheïsm is a sect that seeks to eliminate any religion and seeks for world domination. Your openminded approach is a hoax, cause we are all doomed by our origins. Your blind with your atheïstic dogma's that all religions are evil and certainly the ones that have a voice (publical party) in your country.

Yes! Burn all atheists! They seek for world domination and don't want to accept that the earth is flat!

 

[Moriendor]

Atheïsm is a sect that seeks to eliminate any religion and seeks for world domination.

Ummm. What? Nope. Let me rephrase that: WHAT. THE. FUCK???
Was that meant to be serious in any way, shape or form, Bart, or were there... substances involved before you made your post?

 

[magerette]

I wasn't going to dive back into this raging cauldron of confusion, but wot the hell...

Science, religion and philosophy(including aethism) are all fallible because they originate in the human mind, which is fallible. God or a Divine Power may or may not exist, but religion is man's interpretation of what he thinks God wants from him. I don't think anyone can physically prove or disprove that God was dictating the words he wrote down in the Old or New Testament, the Talmud, the Quoran or the texts of Buddhism; this is a matter solely of faith. Faith is not a bad thing, it is frequently needed in life, but each individual has to decide where he or she is going to put it.

Yes, religion has been and is being used as an excuse for violence and murder. People decide to do this, and they like to ease their conscience by saying it's all God's idea. Who's going to say their wrong? God is notoriuosly silent on the subject.

Science is used not so much to justify violence (because we have God for that) as to enable it in new and exciting ways because it is the knowledge jihad: man's search for knowledge at any expense, and put to any use, is justifiable and indeed, mandated. Scientists say so.

Philosophy just shakes it's head and tries to propound ideas that ask people to think about what they're doing and examine their actions and motives, then live by a personal ethos. No wonder it has fewer adherents.

All the violence, all the murder, and all the fault for it needs to be placed where it belongs--on individuals who act immorally and who force or entice others to do the same using the tools listed above. If someone is a bigot, he finds something to justify his stance. If someone is compassionate, he finds someone to help. Either one might say he was following the dictates of his religion, his scientific quest for truth, or his philosophy.

Stop passing the buck to these faceless concepts and vague entities. It's people and individuals that murder, rape, and disrespect each other and the planet. It's also people who can change, who can help and support each other and the planet.

All the things that are being argued here are interpretations stemming from people's observations and opinions and are hearsay evidence that each individual believes to be fact. None of you have convinced me of anything; rather you have confirmed my deep personal belief that no one knows what the hell is going on.

 

[Pladio]

Just a correction magerette, if I may. The Talmud and Quran weren't written by god, no one ever claimed that. Nor were most of the New and Old Testament.
The Quran was written by Muhammad, but the angel Gibril (or Gabriel) told him what to write. The Talmud was written by Jewish men who discussed the meaning of the Old Testament and its laws. The New testament was written by many different authors, such as Mark, Matthew... Most of the Old Testament was written by prophets. Even the Torah isn't written by god but by Moses, passed on through god (about the same as with the Quran, except god himself )
I'm not sure about Buddhism.

Sorry, another thing.
Actually science is responsible, indirectly, for murder. With the law of the fittest, Hitler justified killing handicapped people, because they would just be a strain on society. The law of the fittest would have killed most handicapped people if people weren't so humane in helping them, so Hitler decided to kill them.
Science coupled with people's selfishness also allowed for the earth to become as polluted (to return on-topic ) as it is now. Because of science the whole world is getting overpopulated and everyone wants the same thing the other has (i.e.:luxury, car, money...).


For most of the other things you say, I completely agree.

 

[magerette]

Thanks Pladio, for correcting the way I stated that My meaning actually was that men wrote those texts; as you state, many different men and not God, but that they nonetheless all purport to be a message from a divine entity. The Ten Commandments were given directly to Moses from God, the Angel somebody or other spoke to Joseph Smith(Mormons) and I would be really surprised if Muhammed didn't claim that Allah was endorsing his message, but the study of religion is not my major field of knowledge, so I apologize if I was inaccurate as to detail.

(I think Buddha is the only one who never claimed to be a god, but he ended up one anyway after he died.)

I pretty much agree with you about the role of science, but again, not ALL science. Medical advances, computers and many other things we rely on every day have changed our civilization for the better.

My take is that it's people who make bad religions and bad science, as well as the good versions of both, so I would say instead of this:

Because of science the whole world is getting overpopulated and everyone wants the same thing the other has (i.e.:luxury, car, money...).

it's more like this: Because of human nature and the greed of individuals and large corporations , enabled by science and unrestrained by a personal code of morals, the world is getting as you describe.

Other than that, as you said, we agree.

 

[JemyM]

Like I said in my PM; (I also know you're talking about it more because you know more about it, but) religion is not only Christianity. Most people also believe that the Bible is not to be read literally, Judaism has more books explaining the Old Testament than the Old Testament has. Judaism has the Talmud, the Gmara, the Mishna, which are all divided in more books. Buddhism has a lot of scholars researching their old scriptures too. You're also forgetting that there are more than one view/perspective for every religion.
You can't even take Christianity as one religion.

Christianity is the bible. There are different churches with different interpretions but the majority of them basicly gives you the bible, ask you to read it and then come back and tell them what you think, or they claim to follow the bible, draw inspiration from the bible and then decide what to do. When you visit different communities you will find that interpretion of the bible is as random as a dicebag because the bible is also a contradicting mess.
Since the bible was originally created with a political agenda it is no surprise that there are communities who have decided to take up the political agenda. While communities disagree between eachother they are more likely to take side with other christian communities than with non-christian communities, especially on the political stuff. Most christians never actually read the bible at all, they just give in to whatever ideas is agreed on within their community.

And thats basicly the problem with "different interpretions" and "if everybody would just follow my version it would all be fine". History shows that a combination between education and using your head prevents disaster better than religion while religion makes people less capable of distinguishing right from wrong and speaking up against them who are the true villians of this world.

Jesus is part of the Holy Trinity. Now there are two possibilities here. Either Jesus is also God and there are depictions of him, even in Churches (Mostly Catholic churches I believe), or you have three Gods, God, the Holy Spirit and Jesus which isn't even monotheism then.

Yeah. I heard many versions of this enigma, where only one made complete sense. When Constantine gathered the many cults to unify them under one strong religion within the roman empire, the cults had many different ideas about this. Some believed in one god. Some believed in Jesus as a human. Some believed in Jesus as god. Some believed Jesus was divine, the son of god. Some still used the pagan religions. Some had all angels as separate gods. Then there were thoose who worshipped the entity known as the "holy spirit".

There was a great argument and they agreed on a few things... first to remove the pagan gods (even if some are still mentioned in the bible such as Baal, Lilith and Belzebub). Then they decided the angels where not gods. Then they decided to agree on the whole trinity gizmo that is on some middle ground between Jesus as divine and as god, while the holy spirit is mentioned, and important, but still few have a clue what the holy spirit really was. For now it's only evoked in protection spells (or was it prayers?) and then it's also unforgiveable sin to deny the holy spirit, a conlusion that I bet suited the cult who believed in the holy spirit as the highest divine being.

Because that's the whole point of the ten commandments, which is to show that not obeying to any those commandments was punishable by death.
There is also a problem here where belief states the Old Testament wasn't written in 650 B.C. but about 1000 years earlier.
And you are mistaken about no killing being common sense as you can see that first of all people still do it and I read an article in the papers about clans in Afghanistan murdering each other for trespassing (this even happens in the US actually). In the most 'civilized' country in the world people have an organization rooting for weapons. It's a right in the US to carry weapons and you're saying it's common sense not to kill ?
For me it is, but it isn't for everyone. Even here in Belgium the prisons are overpopulated, because they are stealing, killing... (which two simple rules written thousands of years ago and if adhered to, then this would not be happening...)

People are born without an understanding of the world and that gives us a few problems.

I don't believe it was meant to mean that women are inferior to men.
I think that in Judaism, women are regarded on a higher spiritual level than men and that is why they are not supposed to practice all the same rituals men do.
All higher scholars from most religions also don't believe it was an apple but a grapevine (I think that's how you're supposed to say it in English).Also about homosexuality, according to religious beliefs, it is not natural for someone to be with someone of the same sex. The most important reason being is that they cannot reproduce as normal couples would.

There are ways to look at this back and forth. Taking the old testament the women are worth little more than cattle (compare the last commandment where women are considered a possession like a mule or ox). There are dozens of wierd reasons why a woman should be killed, including getting raped. Reading the old testament with a modern education, it's idea about women belongs somewhere along the line of "brutal" or "barbaric". How judaism have cleaned up that mess I do not know, I only have the part of Judaism that is present in my christian bible. As a sect, Judaism is rather small and considering the past tension I am fine with simply proving their foundations of their beliefs wrong, no need to compare brutality between judaism and christianity. I have much respect to the secular jews and I support their culture just as much as I support muslim apostates.

When it comes to homosexuality, there's quite alot to say about it. There are good rebukes for every mentioning of homosexuals in the bible and there are even three possible homosexual relationships. For some, calling yourself a christian seems to be a nice defense for just hating people you never met, while the good people unfortunally take side with the bad ones as long as they share the same religion.

Jesus said this ?

They are direct quotes from Paul. Paul wrote several letters to early christianity explaining how church should be controlled. He declared himself a messenger from god. Historically he's far more important to christianity than Jesus himself since it's him who defined how the religion should work and he's also the one who created the philosophy of Jesus as a savior. Mark/Matthew/Luke/John was written long after Paul founded the sect, not the other way around. When you read Paul you realise he really had no clue about anything said in the stories about Jesus, still he is the original founder.

Have you also read the Jewish and Muslim sides of the Bible ?
Not just reread the bible in Arab or Hebrew, I mean with all their explanations in it.
Many Rabbis and Jewish historians have been trying to decipher the meaning of each word in the Bible for millennia. I don't believe that just reading the Bible in its self gives you enough information about it.
I am not interested enough to study theology or for that regard study the whole bible from A to Z, but I know for a fact it isn't as easy as just reading it as a novel...

It's impossible to read every angle of the book. There are no right ones, there are no wrong ones, but we know alot more about it than some people think and I believe it's time to universally treat it as little more than the national epos of Israel, with the same value as King Arthur or Tristan and Isolde. As long as the book gives birth to bad ideas, there is an issue. Trying to find new meanings within the book like it give better insight than the later political philosophies is a major waste of time and money, stopping people from dealing with the more serious issues. We only need to know that some people are prepared to go to war and reduce civil liberties becuse they believe the book is litteraly true and the rest of the religion support the fundies before they support human values. There's a direct relationship, statistically, between the amount of pain and suffering and how strong religion is. Western Europe and Japan have currently the lowest rate of the social issues as well as the lowest amount of believers, while the US are as bad as the middleeast on some problems like the spread of HIV, murders and teenage pregnancies. Within Europe, the strong catholic countries like Spain, Italy, Poland and Ireland are statistically the worst on many similar issues.

Not really. Do you know how many people have been falsely convicted of crimes because there was evidence against them found with systems that now seems to be flawed. Evidence changes over time.

A few 100 years ago you could be burned to the stake for black magic. We should be happy that science evolves.

Why? If god exists then he can do everything he wants. So anything is possible, no?

People who speak about what god wants, always speak about what they want.

 

[JemyM]

All what you're posting here are nothing but simplistic lies, you're nothing but a very poor minded soul and open for nothing then your own truth.

Facts hun, facts.
You have not been able to give any facts to support your statements yet.

If you actually read the bible you will find no such BS as you have quoted here about wives.
Never did Jesus encourage people to leave their homes, they chose to follow him.

You simple prove again and again that you never read your own bible.
Facts are on my side on this one.

You say men wasn't created before woman -> How would you know, you weren't there, so cut the crap with your 'I have all the knowledge and wisdom' act.

I came from my mother. She's a woman. See?
What do you have to go on?

I do not know how you can live with yourself looking down on your gender like that.

Is it the lord that was speaking? NO! It was about someone writing down a story from his point of view and that he might be womenunfriendly doesn't make the bible.

Ah. The "I am christian, I just do not believe we can follow the christian bible" argument.

Here's some random quotes from theese "womenunfriendly bible". Pay note to Deutoronomy, because that's what Jesus speaks about when he say:
"Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfil. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled."

The Tenth Commandment
Exodus 20:17 "You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour."
Deuteronomy 5:21 Neither shall you covet your neighbour’s wife. Neither shall you desire your neighbour’s house, or field, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour."

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
Let the women keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is a disgrace for a woman to speak in church.

1 Tim 5:13
As for younger widows, do not put them on such a list. For when their sensual desires overcome their dedication to Christ, they want to marry. Thus they bring judgment on themselves, because they have broken their first pledge. Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also gossips and busybodies, saying things they ought not to. So I counsel younger widows to marry, to have children, to manage their homes and to give the enemy no opportunity for slander. Some have in fact already turned away to follow Satan.

Deuteronomy 22:28-29
If a man is caught in the act of raping a young woman who is not engaged, he must pay fifty pieces of silver to her father. Then he must marry the young woman because he violated her, and he will never be allowed to divorce her.

Deuteronomy 22:23-24
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

Deuteronomy 20:10-14
As you approach a town to attack it, first offer its people terms for peace. If they accept your terms and open the gates to you, then all the people inside will serve you in forced labor. But if they refuse to make peace and prepare to fight, you must attack the town. When the LORD your God hands it over to you, kill every man in the town. But you may keep for yourselves all the women, children, livestock, and other plunder. You may enjoy the spoils of your enemies that the LORD your God has given you.

Judges 5:30
They must be dividing the spoils they took: there must be a damsel or two for each man, Spoils of dyed cloth as Sisera's spoil, an ornate shawl or two for me in the spoil.

Zechariah 14:1-2
Lo, a day shall come for the Lord when the spoils shall be divided in your midst. And I will gather all the nations against Jerusalem for battle: the city shall be taken, houses plundered, women ravished; half of the city shall go into exile, but the rest of the people shall not be removed from the city.

Atheïsm is a sect that seeks to eliminate any religion and seeks for world domination.

Your blind with your atheïstic dogma's that all religions are evil and certainly the ones that have a voice (publical party) in your country.

Atheism is simply a "I do not believe your claims" statement and christians felt they had to give a word for the people who were not part of their sect. We do this in every day of our lives. Is it a religion to not believe in communism? Nazism? Do organised anti-dictatorship people trying to seek world domination as well?

Please. You are acting like a child or someone who blatantly failed social science.

Your openminded approach is a hoax, cause we are all doomed by our origins.

Who told you that?

Nevermind. I find it useless to discuss with someone who are better to deny facts than to present them. You are not adding anything to my knowledge more than you waste my time.

 

[JemyM]

I don't think anyone can physically prove or disprove that God was dictating the words he wrote down in the Old or New Testament, the Talmud, the Quoran or the texts of Buddhism; this is a matter solely of faith.

For an open mind there is no faith, there's just a wager of evidence.

Religious faith is a virtue of ignorance, the act of mechanically rejecting knowledge for the hope that you will be rewarded if you do. It's a powerful mindlock fueled by human emotions such as hope, greed and fear of the unknown. It keeps the mind locked up whenever our five senses attempts to break it free.

Scientific "faith" of the same kind is purely driven by pride. A scientist who start to take shortcuts or fail to look into other scientists insight have given up their ethics in a pursuit for a personal agenda.

The key difference is that scientist knows alot more about the world than your average person while a religious person knows alot less about the world than your average person. Within science you may loose your job if you make claims without being able to back them up. Within religion you earn your job if you make claims without being able to back them up.

When it comes to the scientific claims regarding global warming they have alot to say. Much of it is quite difficult to get into without having spent many years studying the subject. But at least it's based on insight and evidence where evidence speaks against evidence and I rather have opinions on evidence than nothing.

When it comes to the religious claims regarding global warming they are more like "meh, the world is ending within 50 years anyway, so who cares?".

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