Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

Miracles, Scientists, Atheist and God

Miracles are very widely distributed in the world to give proof for the existence of the God to every human being, which is the basic requirement. If you pray sincerely in a temple or even in open place, generally God gives you His answer through a miracle. Many have witnessed this in their lives. Some times due to the inevitable fruits of your past deeds, God keeps silent for some time and that time is used in your transformation. Hence, scientists call this as probability or coincidence of events. Hence, God demonstrates specific miracles in human form to meet this twisted interpretation of scientists or atheists. Even devotees and even demons do specific miracles. God has given a wide coverage for spreading miracles since it involves the very basic issue of His existence.

Scientists have to accept the existence of unimaginable nature from the practical example of unimaginable limits of this infinite Universe. Scientists may reject miracles but can’t reject the unimaginable limits of space. One instance of existence of unimaginable entity is sufficient to prove the existence of unimaginable God. The miracles act as supporting evidences of the same concept.

Can somebody do something about this guy? He doesn't get the hint..even when its told to him point blank.

dattaswami said:

Miracles are very widely distributed in the world to give proof for the existence of the God to every human being, which is the basic requirement.

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The word "miracle" is a human word. Wether something is a miracle or not is based on human opinion and opinion is not proof for anything at all.

dattaswami said:

If you pray sincerely in a temple or even in open place, generally God gives you His answer through a miracle.

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If you work hard and try to improve your life, your life will improve rather quickly, while if you pray but do not work on improving your life, you will gradually decay your life instead.

dattaswami said:

Many have witnessed this in their lives. Some times due to the inevitable fruits of your past deeds, God keeps silent for some time and that time is used in your transformation. Hence, scientists call this as probability or coincidence of events. Hence, God demonstrates specific miracles in human form to meet this twisted interpretation of scientists or atheists.

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Isn't the idea of God also suggesting that God created the world or that God is part of the world? Or that God and nature is bound together in an unseperatable way. If that is the case, then scientists who study the world, the nature, and "miracles" are studying God's "creation" (or God himself based on perspective). Calling them "twisted" seems like you rather want people to turn away from God's "creation". Isn't that in sense anti-theist?

It brings the question: What is it exactly that you do not want people to see?

Maybe... you do not believe in God at all, yet you cannot imagine yourself a life without God. Now you fear that the more we search for him, the greater is the chance that we do not find him. Maybe that's what you want to hide. Truth is, it's not that you want to try to hide it from others, you are trying to hide it from yourself.

dattaswami said:

Even devotees and even demons do specific miracles. God has given a wide coverage for spreading miracles since it involves the very basic issue of His existence. Scientists have to accept the existence of unimaginable nature from the practical example of unimaginable limits of this infinite Universe. Scientists may reject miracles but can’t reject the unimaginable limits of space. One instance of existence of unimaginable entity is sufficient to prove the existence of unimaginable God. The miracles act as supporting evidences of the same concept.

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Aspects beyond human comprehension is not useful to science since every claim about what's beyond our senses is equally valid. Thus, every version of "God" of "Brahma" of "Life Force" of "The Force", even "Matrix"... are equally valid and equally useless to us.

I think you have to conceive of where this guy is coming from. Either he thinks he has or actually does have something to share, or feels the need to do so. My personal opinion is that you will be unable to embroil him in some logical debate, since he has posted a thread elsewhere indicating that God is unapproachable through logic.
I may be wrong though.

Personally though I disagree with your concluding statement. Not to say that I can't find many things to disagree with when you post, but that particular one that if it's beyond your senses it is useless, is mere conjecture, speculation, or whatever you want to call it. "God works in mysterious ways."

Make it stop!! Make it stop!!! For the love of god, make it stop!!!

ffbj said:

Personally though I disagree with your concluding statement. Not to say that I can't find many things to disagree with when you post, but that particular one that if it's beyond your senses it is useless, is mere conjecture, speculation, or whatever you want to call it. "God works in mysterious ways."

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Imagine you are a scientist in medicine working on a vaccine for a virus. After 6 years of work you open word and you write the following as your result: "God works in mysterious ways". Did you make any progress at all? The statement "God works in mysterious ways" is absolutely useless if you are doing science.

Not at all. In fact many scientists who believe in God have been spurred on in their efforts to uncover the mystery, that they believe, God has placed before them. This is not a matter of conjecture on my part but fact. Of course if you did not have scientific training in the first place just believing in God is not going to help you solve the mystery.

So my point is that when you make such unequivocal statements you should be prepared to defend them. "There is more in Heaven and Earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy," JemyM. I suppose there is no heaven, for one, at least for you.

(I suppose you use the word senses as a broad term, at least in relation to science, as to include instrumentality, but to be succinct, you should so state).
From reading your numerous posts in these areas I find nothing of much interest to me, and I am sure you feel similar to what my views are, so I will say, Adios.

blatantninja said:

Make it stop!! Make it stop!!! For the love of god, make it stop!!!

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I don't know if you realize how ironic your request is.

Nice to see you here mate, joining in the 'fun'!!

ffbj said:

Not at all. In fact many scientists who believe in God have been spurred on in their efforts to uncover the mystery, that they believe, God has placed before them. This is not a matter of conjecture on my part but fact. Of course if you did not have scientific training in the first place just believing in God is not going to help you solve the mystery.

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Science is not a religion or way of life. In the end, science is a tool. Nothing more, nothing less.

One of the fundamental goals of science is to yield useful results that allows us to predict and manipulate this dimension. Scientific theories are abstract models that are built on previous results and one major reason we have them is that we can use them to predict what will happen before we do something.

Finding God or trying to prove God is not science. Again, science is based on yielding results, generating new insights, not trying to "prove" old ideas.

Then, being "guided" by God or by Caffeine while doing science doesn't really matter, just the result.

Having said that; "God" is an abstract thought that can easily be replaced by the Brahma, "The Force", "The Matrix", "Lady Luck" and yield the same results. Without the ability to show what's beyond your senses every theory about what's there automatically becomes equally useless. Kinda like the fun mind games that young teenagers play with each other right after their abstract thinking is developed. Kinda like "If you discovered one morning that something changed you into a snake that night, what would you do?".

The greatest weakness of the "God" theory is that the character "God" is inspired by books that were written by people that had no clue about how the world actually works. And since we know who created the "force" and the "matrix" we can discard them as well. All three are interesting abstract ideas but that's as far as we can know that they are.

ffbj said:

So my point is that when you make such unequivocal statements you should be prepared to defend them. "There is more in Heaven and Earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy," JemyM. I suppose there is no heaven, for one, at least for you.

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I wish everyone who told me that would believe it. I have pushed myself into reading more and more religions and ideologies to expand my insight in the world. One who sticks to one single of them will leave out a large part of his/her humanity.

JemyM said:

Imagine you are a scientist in medicine working on a vaccine for a virus. After 6 years of work you open word and you write the following as your result: "God works in mysterious ways". Did you make any progress at all? The statement "God works in mysterious ways" is absolutely useless if you are doing science.

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Dear JemyM;

Thanks for that. After along time somebody who got some common sense has replied in this forum!!

God exists. But He is unimaginable. He is beyond our human logic. The unimaginable God is beyond the four-dimensional model of space and time. You can imagine the dissolution of matter converting into energy filling the space. Subsequently you can imagine the disappearance of energy in the space and the result is final vacuum. But, even if you try for your lifetime, you can never imagine the disappearance of vacuum.

God being the generator of space is beyond space and therefore, can never be imagined. If you have to imagine God, the pre-requisite is the imagination of disappearance of space or vacuum. Of course space is a form of very fine energy and in this context the word energy used by Me can be taken as crude form of energy. The only knowledge about God is that He is beyond the knowledge (Yasyaamatam… Veda).

But since God is unimaginable one can never tell that He doesnot exists. He shows His existence by coming in Human form in every human generation. His proof is wonderful divine knoweldge. Another proof is miracles that He does.

at the risk of sounding rude, looks like dataswami has found a buddy.

listen, the newest thread of his contains a link to some website of his, so can we now officially call this spam?

Dataswami has found a friend? I don't think so.
Spam? You bet!
How about a ban.

Once in the late 90s, I once read an interesting article in the New Scientist.

I have only fragments of it in my memory now, but in short it was about the phenomenon that Nature as such gives away only as much information as is being researched; no more, no less.

The whole article was longer, of course, and I don't have anymore much in my mind to be able to explain it - even to myself - but I found the idea fascoinating - as it was presented there - that Nature would withhold information - and give away only what is being researched.

It is a bit like finding the human fossils of the so-called "Hobbits" - small humans on a few islands - just during the height of the LOTR mania. It was as if Nature had given Humanity just what it wanted.

It is fascinating to think that there is a pattern out there ... What you want to see you'll get to see, because ... Some "information field" just shapes up ?

Therefore ... - Are our rules of physics perhaps only there because we wanted them to be there ?

It is almost as if quantum fluctuations receive some sort of form ... And cease to be fluctuations anymore ... It's a bit like Schrödinger's Cat : The moment you open the box, the Universe gets Definitive about this "detail" ...

If we were to ban all the people who post stuff 'we' don't like, this would become a rather empty place. Besides that you don't have to reply

Oops, my bad.

Expressions like "Rules of physics" and "Laws of nature" is of course our way of trying to make sense to what we predict. Some have confused the expression with an actual lawmaker, setting up rules and dictating laws.

JemyM,
Can you explain please.

As an atheist I'm sure if I started posting anti religious posts there would be more of an uproar. I'll be happily ignoring from henceforth.

Its not about not liking this guy. Its about stopping him from flooding. I don't read his articles, I'm just annoyed that he posts one after the other regardless of what anyone thinks of him doing this. He is a problem, or haven't you noticed?