Thrasher
Wheeee!
Yes, I loved the PS:T writing. I couldn't read the review for the above stated reasons.
I amazed that you've even played it, because it doesn't sound like you have...
Hahahaha . . . are you arguing that there is a real story to any of the IWD games? I must have failed to stumble across it in my 30 hour dungeon crawl.
More polished graphics & combat than baldur's gate, more of the same D&D rules (although I'm far keener on the later edition rules as in NWN onwards), but nothing else.
I sort of agree, but at least IWD2 had (mutated) 3rd edition rules
They are better than BG for multiplayer due to the relative lack of storyline (combat keeps all players busy, dialogue doesnt), but that aside I'd say the only thing that is really great about the IWDs is the soundtrack.
Mutated?
That's putting it mildly
Having no experience with the PnP version I cant really judge how badly the ruleset was mangled Regardless it's still way superior to the abomination that is 2nd edition rules...
Having no experience with the PnP version I cant really judge how badly the ruleset was mangled Regardless it's still way superior to the abomination that is 2nd edition rules...
Hahahaha . . . are you arguing that there is a real story to any of the IWD games? I must have failed to stumble across it in my 30 hour dungeon crawl.
Or maybe just try reading the manual next time.
IWD obviously doesn't compete in story, but it has *much* better combat, a lot more variety to the enemies, and a far larger pool of spells, weapons, armor, etc.
Dhruin also made a good point about the art and music, which might be the best among the IE games.
So they put the story into the manual? Or do you feel that it wasn't possible to get the most out of the combat / spell / character system without reading the manual? I did have a bit of fun with the combat. For a while. I just very quickly and got to regular moments of immersion breaking clarity where I thought "Why am I playing this? Why are my characters here, who are they, if I get above the minutiae of making the most of my party's strength what's the bigger picture?".
As said, polished. Good combat, easily the best of the infinity engine games. Nice art, soundtrack, generally everything that was flawed about the other infinity engine games got sorted out for IWD. Polished. But give me a flawed gem over a polished turd any day.
I stand by the view that it had nothing else. Story? No. Memorable characters? No. Choices and consequences? No. Good dialogue? No. Freedom to roleplay? No. Replayability? No. A sense that my party has a real influence on the world? No. .
How many times do I have to repeat that the story wasn't IWDs strongest point? I think we've already established that most people agree that PST is better in that department.
Except that you seem to be the only one here who thinks IWD is a "turd".
Yeah it has nothing else... except all the things that the rest of us have been pointing out that you choose to ignore.
You don't. That was my attempt to understand your "try reading the manual comment" (in response to my saying that IWD didn't have a story).
That was the word that naturally sprang to mind in conjunction with polishing up something not very good, although in fairness turds are more generally renowned for the resistance to polishing. I did elsewhere say that I considered it above average or even upper quartile, although predominantly due to polish of the basics than due to any loftier ambitions
Shouldn't be too hard to understand, it made a lot more sense than the comment I was responding to.
Except that it *is* very good to a lot of people. I know... tough concept for you to grasp it seems.
In that case it shouldn't be too hard to explain either. I'm happy to clarify my own comment if you like, namely that it had no particular story and was fundamentally a dungeon crawler, although you yourself seem to agree so I'm not sure what it is about my comment that you find nonsensical.
No, a very easy concept to grasp, and I'm not sure quite why you're assuming otherwise (although you don't really seem to be reading what I'm writing, but then I am slating one of your favourites so that's understandable, I'd probably not really read properly any criticisms of planescape).
I fully appreciate that everyone has different utility functions and that to some people the quality of implementation of the combat, music and artwork are sufficient to carry a game and even make it a classic. My own utility function happens to consider those elements basically just the polish that's put on top of a world & plot, and while a shocking lack of polish can ruin an interesting world & plot for me, a high level of polish can't make up for deficiencies in the areas I really play games with the hope of experiencing.
I'm not arguing that my utility function is inherently right while yours is inherently wrong (it is, but I know I can't prove it ), merely that IWD is a story lite dungeon crawler, albeit a well implemented one.