Skyrim - E3 Previews

crpgnut said:

I wonder if you'll have to wait 6 months to a year to play Skyrim in German. I'm thinking probably not. It wouldn't surprise me, that if Bethesda didn't translate it, SureAI or someone of that nature would have it translated AND voice-acted by Day 3 Not only that, the German version would probably end up better because there'd be more than 10 voices

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Doesn't concern or interest me at all. I'm fluent in German and English, and depending on the origin of a game, I will always play either the original English or German version.
Since the vast majority of games are US-made, 95% of the time this means that I will be playing the original English version of a game.
Using Amazon.co.uk or Play.com, importing the English UK version is usually much cheaper than buying a local copy, too, no matter if it is digitally distributed or a retail product.
I'll preorder Skyrim from Amazon.co.uk as soon as they start listing the Skyrim CE.
Amazon is awesome. The CE of 'The Witcher 2' and the 'Duke Nukem Balls of Steel' CE both shipped on a Friday in Europe and I've had both games delivered by Amazon on Saturday at the latest even though they were imports. Both games were much cheaper than a local copy, too.
So unless someone is going to point a gun at my head and forces me to consider buying the German version there will be no such consideration at all. The English (UK/Euro) version is the way to go. Period.

Moriendor said:

Yes, the international versions of Gothic 1 + 2 (+ NotR) were well patched when they were released.

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Yes - and this is the usual thing.

ALL major German games I know of are already patched when they hit NA and the rest of he world.

And this is to a great part true to other european game developers as well.

And is is why NA gamers often don't know about bugs - and sometimes even outright claim that saying that there were bugs is a lie.

I just wish games from NA would reach Germany in a fully patched state, too - AS A REGULAR THING.

I wouldn't consider the Gothics open-world games, but everyone has a different opinion. The Witcher 2 is about as open-world as Gothic 1. I don't think I ever played Gothic 2 much, so can't comment. Gothic 3 was the first that gave the illusion of being open-world, but still not in the same ballpark as any Bethesda game. Even Two Worlds II isn't open-world compared to Oblivion. There are quests that "must" be tackled before you can go anywhere. Of course neither game allows you to "be anyone/anything" like TES. Fallout 3 was an interesting experiment because it stepped away from the be anyone script, just a bit, to make you the child of a couple scientists.

145 days till Skyrim!

145 days until German Carnival begins ! Yay !

crpgnut said:

Even Two Worlds II isn't open-world compared to Oblivion. There are quests that "must" be tackled before you can go anywhere.

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Not exactly. I water walked to the Asian continent early on the game and was doing chapter 2 quests, including getting a boat, way before I completed chapter 1 so there are definitely ways to circumvent the normal quest flow if you are creative. There is at least one area though that I can think of that that if you try to get there the game will teleport you out and tell you you can't go there yet so there is that, but I would say 95% of the world is open to you from quite early on if you figure out ways to get there.

Of course neither game allows you to "be anyone/anything" like TES.

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True enough. If that's a big draw then most other games these days don't do that. For me personally, I don't mind an existing character and actually tend to prefer them since they have more of a story and connection to the game world.

On the other hand, even Two Worlds II had at least a couple of instances of choice and consequence. TES has none save for the end of Daggerfall which they nullified with the Warp of the West.

crpgnut said:

I wouldn't consider the Gothics open-world games, but everyone has a different opinion. The Witcher 2 is about as open-world as Gothic 1.

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The Witcher 2 is nowhere near as open as Gothic 1. You had three chapters that were all separate areas, and they were pretty small if you were to compare them to The Valley of Mines.

The Gothic games are 100% open-world. You can travel to any area from the start. The only difference is that you'll get wiped out by much stronger enemies if you're not careful.

I honestly can't remember Gothic 1 that well. I remember I wanted to be a mage in the beginning and had to wait till quite deep in the game to become one. I never went back to it after finding that out. I need to give the Gothics another go, I just can't make myself though. I've loaded them up numerous times, but an hour later I'm uninstalling. I truly wished I could get into them. Gothic 3 had me for quite a while. To me, it was better than the others. I've finished Two Worlds I and II, so it's not because it's a European game. One of these days, I'll be in the right mood and the Gothics will click for me.

crpgnut said:

I honestly can't remember Gothic 1 that well. I remember I wanted to be a mage in the beginning and had to wait till quite deep in the game to become one.

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I think it is the best part of mage experience. In gothic 1&2 becoming a mage means something because magic itself is not a trivial thing. Common men fear and respect mages as they command great power and they are chosen by gods. I really recommand you to play on. The struggle of becoming a mage is really worth of all the trouble. Gothics are games where mage's path pays off. You'll get to see a whole different angle to the main storyline and many sidequests. Plus spells themselves are really cool

By the way you should join the old camp if you wish to become mage.

I do plan on playing a Breton Mage named Akmed, president of alchemists anonymous. He'll take all the alchemy perks as they become available, and will be pretty handy with other types of magic too.

Or perhaps I'll get HGEC the first day and it'll be Allure the albino alchemist of astonishing assets

JDR13 said:

The Gothic games are 100% open-world. You can travel to any area from the start. The only difference is that you'll get wiped out by much stronger enemies if you're not careful.

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I think I understand what crpgnut means when he says that the Gothics aren't 100% open world. I believe what he means is that you don't have 360° freedom from the start as you do in Oblivion when you step out of the opening dungeon.
In Oblivion you can really go in any direction from there.
In Gothic you start on a rather narrow path that will lead you directly to the old camp. Sure, you don't have to enter the old camp but the game is showing you what direction it wants you to take. Same with Gothic 2. The path from Xardas' tower will inevitably lead you to the gates of Khorinis.
The difference in Oblivion is that there is no path at all. You get dumped out into that world with no real sense of direction. You could head to the Imperial City first. You could follow the quest marker to where the main plot continues. You could simply explore the surrounding area a bit, maybe do your first dungeon, do some hunting, gather some loot etc.
So both franchises are definitely open world games but I guess that you could say that the Elder Scrolls games are a bit more open even (120% open world ).

Regardless of what you really mean, there's no way Gothic is as restrictive as The Witcher 2 in terms of being open and freeform. Not even close.

Moriendor said:

The difference in Oblivion is that there is no path at all. You get dumped out into that world with no real sense of direction.

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Had a similar feeling when I tried Morrowind last year.

I think I agree that Morrowind and Oblivion are more open than Gothic games. If TES games are 100% open then Gothic 1, 2 and Risen are about 70% open and Gothic 3 being 85% open! Witcher and Bio are games are about 40% - 50% open.

However If I am in the mood for playing exploration games I still prefer Gothic games to TES games any day, even with some nasty bugs. Gothic games makes me care about the world. I am not exploring for the sake of exploring. I give a damn what's going on the world. I am not big fan of combat in Gothic but since I care about the world and its people I will stick with it. Even reload the bloody game after many crashes etc.

With Oblivion and TES games, after many hours of exploring, I was like "screw this I don't care anymore" and I gave up. I tried Oblivion again recently, with all the new expansion, community patches and mods etc and after few hours I gave up. I didn't care anymore.

I wish they set Witcher type game in open world like Gothic! Fingers crossed for Risen 2

crpgnut said:

Gothic 3 was the first that gave the illusion of being open-world, but still not in the same ballpark as any Bethesda game.

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lostforever said:

If TES games are 100% open then Gothic 1, 2 and Risen are about 70% open and Gothic 3 being 85% open!

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I´d like to know what makes you guys think Gothic 3 is a less open-world game than Oblivion.
Because in my opinion G3 is actually slightly more open "horizontally" (its cities are in the same world space as the rest of the game, whereas Oblivion´s cities are not) and it is a lot more open "vertically" (G3´s enemies are scaled less rigidly and iirc most of the items are not scaled at all, whereas a big chunk of this part of Oblivion´s world is closed and what is open depends on pc´s level).

For all most all praticalur purposes Gothic 3 is open as Oblivion. Its only when you nitpick its less open.

When you are out of the dungeon in Oblivion, you can really travel in 360 degree direction. However in Gothic 3 is really 120 degree. If you look at the map, it sort of "V" shape from the place where you start the game. Like I said its really nitpicking!

lostforever said:

When you are out of the dungeon in Oblivion, you can really travel in 360 degree direction. However in Gothic 3 is really 120 degree. If you look at the map, it sort of "V" shape from the place where you start the game. Like I said its really nitpicking!

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Haha, it sure is!
Next time I´ll play Oblivion with a mod which moves the beginning of the game to Anvil it´ll be only 85% open world TES experience .
Also, to nitpick your nitpick, you can move in more-or-less 180° right from the start in G3 - north, west and south (swim to desert lands).

Anyway, this kinda touched on a bit different issue I have with openworldness of Oblivion - fast travel aside, it´s way too straighforward to get pretty much everywhere, just set a course and follow the line - sense of discovery of possible travelling routes is sorely missing, unlike in G3´s more rugged environments (desert aside).
Hopefully Skyrim will be more intriguing in this regard.