Basilisk Games - Projects Update

Ovenall · April 7, 2011

Yeah, having to eat and drink on top of constantly having to run for the map edge was just stupid. "Metagaming" is the perfect way to put it. Also, not being able to identify some things, like dried meat. Seriously, you can't identify dried meat and need to pay someone to tell you what it is? Just tremendously dumb and solely for the sake of making it more "hardcore."

The most fun I had was building a new character. Then after about an hour of playing with him, it's a boring grind through mostly empty maps. Ugh. Independent does not always equal good. And I will be much more careful buying an "indy" game in the future.

I really felt ripped off by Book 2. I haven't tried Book 1 so I have no opinion on that. Again, I get that it's a small developer, independent, etc., but it's a bad game. How can I tell it's bad? It is no fun to play, and I paid $25 for it.

Santos · April 7, 2011

Still, given the choice, I'd rather see a Dev who over-thought his/her game mechanics than under-thought them- I've played far too many of those, over the years. I know it's a moot point, if the end result isn't enjoyable, but the snob in me appreciates the distinction (grin).

crpgnut · April 7, 2011

I agree, Santos. I'm not anti-Tom in any way. I think Book II was a step back, but that he had his heart in the right place. I'm hopeful that Book III will be another step in his growth as a dev. He's released two games and that's one more than most

Ovenall · April 7, 2011

Yes, it's a hell of an achievement. Tons of work was put into the game. I can appreciate that. And I like much of the art style, and animations, etc.

But it just ain't any fun to play after a few hours.

Dhruin · April 7, 2011

I think you're being a bit precious - "ripped off"? Why didn't you try the demos?

Anyway, I didn't like Book 2 either but I quite enjoyed Book 1. Gamers seem to think every game development should be better than the last from that studio or it's complete crap. It doesn't happen in other artistic endeavours - the last book or album from my favourite artist often isn't their best.

Hopefully Book 3 gets the balance right - I'm certainly hopeful.

rune_74 · April 8, 2011

I actually liked book 2 better then the first, but both had the limitations from the engine(run to the edge of the screen thing, which I found in a lot of old school games from before as well). I can't speak for tom, but a lot of time went into the engine upgrades from the first game, the good news is that the third game will have more time actually spent on the game itself. I don't agree the dialogue was accept quest or not, it was never simple like that. I personally liked seeing a bigger city in the game then in the first, I would like to see him flesh the cities out a bit more. If anything I think a lot of people found the second to be more of the first game and perhaps it wasn't different enough….not sure. To say the 2nd was a bad game is wrong in my opinion. I'm not sure anyone has a right to feel ripped off if they bought a game when a demo was available.

Ovenall · April 8, 2011

OK, fine I wasn't ripped off. I bought it based on the glowing reviews I read through this site, and other small sites that bothered to review it. And I played around with the demo a bit, but obviously not enough.

The dialog is extremely simplistic. Yes, there's also options to ask for info, in which case the NPC says their spiel. But it's very rudimentary.

The various reviews I read spoke of it being difficult, but in my opinion, these reviewers were way too kind simply because it was from a small company and an "old-school" game. Just touting something and saying it's good because it's an independent release is not cool.

rune_74 · April 8, 2011

Ovenall said:
OK, fine I wasn't ripped off. I bought it based on the glowing reviews I read through this site, and other small sites that bothered to review it. And I played around with the demo a bit, but obviously not enough.

The dialog is extremely simplistic. Yes, there's also options to ask for info, in which case the NPC says their spiel. But it's very rudimentary.

The various reviews I read spoke of it being difficult, but in my opinion, these reviewers were way too kind simply because it was from a small company and an "old-school" game. Just touting something and saying it's good because it's an independent release is not cool.

Well, I'm not sure that is the reason they said it was good, for some reason it wasn't good for you, for others it was.

Ovenall · April 8, 2011

Seriously, Eschalon 2 is worth $25 to you? Really?

Again, I can see its positive side. But in the end, do you really find it fun to play? I'd like to hear more about this. I just don't get it. It's a mostly empty game world. There's not much to do but kill stuff, then run once you find something that's too hard to kill.

Well, whatever. There's people who like Rob Schneider movies too, I guess…

Korplem · April 8, 2011

Ovenall said:
There's not much to do but kill stuff, then run once you find something that's too hard to kill.

I think that meets the baseline for a decent (not necessarily good) game from any genre that involves fighting... Shit, I hear (ok, read on forums) people complain that they never get into fights that need the player to run away and level up in modern games. So that could definitely be a positive to people wishing for older game mechanics.

rune_74 · April 8, 2011

Did you bother to read any of the storyline? Did you do the quests? There were some interesting ones I liked. I think it was worth 25 dollars easy, I mean if you find that a lot of money perhaps gaming is not for you. It is a pretty good story throughout the game.

OK I understand there are only two choices, but what is simplistic about that dialogue?

GothicGothicness · April 8, 2011

Dev wannabe's are always jealous of Bioware and Bethesda. You get used to it, stealth. Still, I thought it was pretty funny. Those who can't do…criticize. That is MY mantra

Wew, what a statement. I am jealous of Piranha, or Firaxis or companies that make good games. For these developers I am just sad, but at least they provide some enjoyment through making fun of them, and biowares movies are not that bad.

crpgnut · April 8, 2011

Bethesda and Bioware make better games than Piranha and Firaxis. Making a good game includes proper marketing and hype. Otherwise, your company will go kaput, as has been proven. Making a game and not making sure the world is hyped about it, is nearly certain death. Very few games can survive w/o a good PR strategy. Surely you've learned this!

The Witcher 2 has kinda learned. They've been much better at marketing this time around. The Witcher is one of the few games that survived without adequate international marketing. I'm glad to see the better effort, because it means that TW3 might see the light of day. I thought Two Worlds Two also did a much better job the second time. Europe is learning what it takes to market internationally and this is a good thing.

JDR13 · April 8, 2011

crpgnut said:
Bethesda and Bioware make better games than Piranha and Firaxis.

Speak for yourself... that's definitely opinion.

GothicGothicness · April 8, 2011

I consider PR and game making two different things.

But now it finally makes sense why you like Oblivion, because Bethesda sure are good at marketing and hype, they just can't make games. It is almost like solving a 5 year old mystery

Ovenall · April 8, 2011

So the protagonist wakes up with amnesia and slowly finds out that his/her role in the fate of the kingdom is "more than they expected"

Wow.

Really, people here are constantly bashing lack of choice or consequences in modern CRPGs and then a game like this gets big praise from most everyone. Because it's a small budget game company. Look at the choices. It's either "tell me more" in which case you hear more or "I don't believe you you stupid jerk" in which case you will get a slightly different response telling you the same info.

But you need to pay to identify dried meat or a hand axe, so "Immersion!" And even with a couple points in map making skill, you still can't sketch out a giant body of water that prevents you from crossing because "hardcore!"

rune_74 · April 8, 2011

Ovenall said:
So the protagonist wakes up with amnesia and slowly finds out that his/her role in the fate of the kingdom is "more than they expected"

Wow.

Really, people here are constantly bashing lack of choice or consequences in modern CRPGs and then a game like this gets big praise from most everyone. Because it's a small budget game company. Look at the choices. It's either "tell me more" in which case you hear more or "I don't believe you you stupid jerk" in which case you will get a slightly different response telling you the same info.

But you need to pay to identify dried meat or a hand axe, so "Immersion!" And even with a couple points in map making skill, you still can't sketch out a giant body of water that prevents you from crossing because "hardcore!"

How is that any different then dialogue discussions in other games? You keep moving your goal posts to make your arguement, so not sure what to say. It is no simpler of a dialogue system then 90% of rpgs out there. I chose one picture with a selection of dialogue that made your previous arguement look contrived, and you came back with this? come on.

As for id'ing…no, you don't have to pay for someone to identify it, you can yourself if you build your character that way, that is a gameplay mechanic, that is what is the norm in rpg's. (or was the norm for the audience this game was built for)

Look, if your looking for modern age advancements such as a automap that does everything for you and points you in the right direction, this game is not for you. It is made as a homage to old school rpg's, hence it is very much an old school rpg. Granted the user interface is a lot better. I actually like the way the automap works, you have trade offs in the game instead of having everything presented to you…there are many other games that do that for you.

Ovenall · April 8, 2011

Look at some of the other dialogs then. It's almost ALL extremely simplistic -- and also dialogs are really few and far between. There's huge square maps with almost nothing in them except wandering monsters. Some you can kill... and if not, then run like hell to the edge of the map. Camp. Camp. Camp.

We're concentrating on dialog, but dialog is a tiny part of the entire bore-fest. And I like the idea of an evolving map making ability. But seriously, you can read notes and hold conversations with people, cast spells and fight battles but you can't indicate on a piece of paper where a river is? You can't identify a piece of dried meat, but you can read signs, notes and books?

I guess you found more than a couple hours of this compelling. I sure didn't.

rune_74 · April 8, 2011

Ovenall said:
Look at some of the other dialogs then. It's almost ALL extremely simplistic — and also dialogs are really few and far between. There's huge square maps with almost nothing in them except wandering monsters. Some you can kill… and if not, then run like hell to the edge of the map. Camp. Camp. Camp.

We're concentrating on dialog, but dialog is a tiny part of the entire bore-fest. And I like the idea of an evolving map making ability. But seriously, you can read notes and hold conversations with people, cast spells and fight battles but you can't indicate on a piece of paper where a river is? You can't identify a piece of dried meat, but you can read signs, notes and books?

I guess you found more than a couple hours of this compelling. I sure didn't.

Then it most likely isn't for you. All I will say now is that it was successful enough to warrent a 3rd one being made, if you never got past two hours I doubt you saw much of the game.

Ovenall · April 8, 2011

Oh I played through more than two hours. Probably around 8 hours. After two hours though, I was thoroughly uninterested, realizing I was on a boring treadmill I just blew $25 on.

$25 isn't a lot of money for me. It is, however, a lot of money for a game like Eschalon Book 2.

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