Bard's Tale IV - Monte Cook is joining the Team

The Bard's Tale IV Kickstarter has reached the 1.4M goal:

Monte Cook Adds His Voice To The Song!

Happy 4th of July weekend for all our American backers. In the US, this weekend is about family and celebration and we’ll use it to recharge our batteries before our final week, but before we check out we wanted to give you one final quick update.

The biggest news as of yesterday: The first of our stretch goals to put together the ultimate RPG super team has been hit, and Numenera creator Monte Cook is joining The Bard's Tale IV!

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More information.

7 days to go...

Sure have a lot of names...Cook, Avelone, Reynolds, Cordell, etc...just hope that doesn't destroy their budget which is pretty small to begin with.

Saxon1974 said:

Sure have a lot of names…Cook, Avelone, Reynolds, Cordell, etc…just hope that doesn't destroy their budget which is pretty small to begin with.

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Don't forget there's an invisible 1.25 million dollars that they said they'd add in from their own funds as soon as the game was funded. And a chunk of whatever funds they get from selling their other games over the next while (here's hoping that Wasteland 2's a success on the consoles) will presumably be injected into the budget as well. Still a small budget, but not as tiny as it first appears on the kickstarter page.

Not too mention when Torment is released in another 6 months or so I have a feeling they will be awash with cash.

Torment will bring in moderate I think...

They will also be making a lot off of wasteland 2 going to consoles....

Not sure if Avellone will join, It looks like very difficult to reach 1.9 M. Hope i am wrong...

Saxon1974 said:

Sure have a lot of names…Cook, Avelone, Reynolds, Cordell, etc…just hope that doesn't destroy their budget which is pretty small to begin with.

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How much dungeon could you design for, say $50k? Quite a large one I'd imagine.

rjshae said:

How much dungeon could you design for, say $50k? Quite a large one I'd imagine.

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That's an interesting question which in turn leads to some interesting issues about the new game at least to me.

Specifically the dungeon quantity per dollar would likely boil down to the degree of variation per unit dungeon area as I see it. Which is to say that if the game's new dungeon design is simply a rubber stamp that repeats, repeats, repeats… endlessly into the darkness — yeah I think $50k should get you a lot.

Add monsters, variations in monsters, variations in dungeon rooms, floors, and walls, unique and varied character dialog; then cost per unit dungeon area goes up.

But still the whole analysis leaves me feeling rather cold. Which is to say I really am not turned on by the thought of spending many many hours-into-days of my life in a cold, dark dungeon. And Avellone dialog doesn't make that substantially more inviting to me.

Which brings me to the Avellone announcement to the effect that his contribution would be a really really special dungeon to kill everyone and everything. To me that's simply not exciting.

And to the big issue. If the new Bard's Tale is just dungeons, or mainly just dungeons, its going to be a tough sell IMO. But that does seem to be a major portion, if not the major portion of what they're making.

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And to the big issue. If the new Bard's Tale is just dungeons, or mainly just dungeons, its going to be a tough sell IMO. But that does seem to be a major portion, if not the major portion of what they're making.

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That's why the sub-genre is called "Dungeon-Crawlers". You crawl through dungeons in these games.

Bard's Tale IV will have some outdoor areas as far as I know, but you're still going to be crawling through glorious dungeon grids, focusing on combat, exploration and puzzles. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

If you can't hack a good dungeon-crawl, then play something else would be my best advice. There's plenty of other games to choose from.

Fluent said:

That's why the sub-genre is called "Dungeon-Crawlers". You crawl through dungeons in these games.

Bard's Tale IV will have some outdoor areas as far as I know, but you're still going to be crawling through glorious dungeon grids, focusing on combat, exploration and puzzles. And I wouldn't have it any other way.

If you can't hack a good dungeon-crawl, then play something else would be my best advice. There's plenty of other games to choose from.

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I expected dungeons; but not all dungeons. Dungeon crawler or no, the original Bards Tale game had lots more going for it than that.

At any rate, if the new Bard's Tale is just dungeons I won't be playing with or without your best advice. And I expect I won't be alone in that decision; or in my disappointment for that matter.

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What do you mean "not all dungeons". The game will more than likely have towns, forests, lost cities, temples, catacombs, caves, etc. etc. to explore.

I think you just aren't looking for a dungeon-crawler, so you should look elsewhere. This is a dungeon-crawler RPG with 30 levels to explore that focuses heavily on combat, exploration and puzzles in a grid-based environment.

Fluent said:

What do you mean "not all dungeons". The game will more than likely have towns, forests, lost cities, temples, catacombs, caves, etc. etc. to explore.

I think you just aren't looking for a dungeon-crawler, so you should look elsewhere. This is a dungeon-crawler RPG with 30 levels to explore that focuses heavily on combat, exploration and puzzles in a grid-based environment.

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By "not all dungeons", I meant just what I said; i.e., "not all dungeons". If the game has substantial emphasis on all of those other things you list, then the game is pretty obviously "not all dungeons". I think that despite presumably good intentions, you really don't understand what game I'm looking for, as evidenced by your failure to understand that by "not all dungeons" I meant just that.

Avellone's potential contribution has been pitched solely as a single dungeon. That in turn did raise an issue to me of what extent other developers have put substantial efforts into non-dungeon aspects of the game.

I've been trying to say from the get-go that to me it matters a great deal whether there are substantial non-dungeon aspects to Bard's Tale IV. I suspect this will also matter to many other potential customers.

Thanks.

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Have you played any dungeon-crawl RPGs? They are mostly dungeons. They focus heavily on combat. There is some exploration, loot, RPG elements, etc., but they mainly focus on dungeons.

Bard's Tale IV is not going to be Drakensang, or Elder Scrolls. It is a dungeon-crawler. There are going to be 30 locations to visit and explore, most of them deep, complex dungeons to get lost in for hours while you fight through hordes of enemies, collect endless loot and manage your party's spells, health and more.

This is not going to be a game to just explore some countryside and pick flowers or something. It is a dungeon-crawl.

I don't think anyone but you is going to be disappointed that a dungeon-crawler doesn't have much other than dungeons.

I'm sure there will be some story to keep things moving, quests and all that, but the majority of time spent will be wading through hordes of enemies in, you guessed it, dungeons.

Of course, as I said, the dungeons will also be outdoor areas, it seems. But the same basic principle is going to apply. Focus on heavy combat, exploration and puzzles. Dungeon-crawling.

Fluent said:

Have you played any dungeon-crawl RPGs? They are mostly dungeons. They focus heavily on combat. There is some exploration, loot, RPG elements, etc., but they mainly focus on dungeons.

Bard's Tale IV is not going to be Drakensang, or Elder Scrolls. It is a dungeon-crawler. There are going to be 30 locations to visit and explore, most of them deep, complex dungeons to get lost in for hours while you fight through hordes of enemies, collect endless loot and manage your party's spells, health and more.

This is not going to be a game to just explore some countryside and pick flowers or something. It is a dungeon-crawl.

I don't think anyone but you is going to be disappointed that a dungeon-crawler doesn't have much other than dungeons.

I'm sure there will be some story to keep things moving, quests and all that, but the majority of time spent will be wading through hordes of enemies in, you guessed it, dungeons.

Of course, as I said, the dungeons will also be outdoor areas, it seems. But the same basic principle is going to apply. Focus on heavy combat, exploration and puzzles. Dungeon-crawling.

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Honestly, did you even bother to try to read what I wrote? Did you even try to understand what I wrote. This is more than a bit tiresome. There is no point in all of this contentiousness. I visit here for enjoyment and sharing; not arguing.

Yes I have played the original Bard's Tale games as was apparent from what I wrote. And I have played numerous other RPGs with substantial dungeon content (underground dungeons, dark with stone and mortar walls, etc) -- over a period spanning decades and many generations of computers.

Although the word "dungeons" might mean "outdoor areas" to you, I can assure you that "dungeons" does not have such a meaning. Regardless of what you believe, dungeons in traditional RPGs are... well, dungeons. Underground with stone and mortar walls, typically wet and moldy, etc.

This is ridiculous. I'm done here.
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Sorry, I don't mean to make your stay unpleasant at all. I've had that happen to me far too many times to want to pass that on to someone else.

I'm simply saying, this game is going to be a dungeon-crawler. "Dungeons" in this context means any area where you "crawl" through and destroy hordes of monsters.

They could be caves, underground lakes, volcanic mountains, forests, ancient tombs, catacombs, sewers, or an actual real "dungeon" where people would help captive and tortured, etc.

The point is, the main goal of this game is going to be focused on combat, exploration and puzzles. You are going to be fighting hordes of enemies, "crawling" your party through grid-based environments, exploring the grid-based environments and solving puzzles along the way. This is what a traditional "dungeon-crawler" is about.

There will be towns to explore, including Skara Brae itself. There will be outdoor areas, underground areas, etc. But the main point of the game is to crawl through these environments and fight lots of enemies in tactical, turn-based combat.

But it's not all "dungeons" as in prisons or underground areas. You will be seeing a wide variety of styles, so it should stay fresh throughout.

You do know the main city from the first one will return. Skara Brea.

Hastar said:

You do know the main city from the first one will return. Skara Brea.

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Right. I enjoyed Skara Brea, the temples and guilds in the original Bard's Tale. That added a great deal to the original. Hope they will put effort into expanding and enhancing the town and the surrounding outdoor areas also.

PoE had plenty of dungeons that were well designed and implemented IMO. But PoE also had plenty of other non-dungeon areas. The balance of different areas made the game as a whole quite enjoyable for the most part. But without all of the non-dungeon areas, PoE wouldn't have been the same game, and wouldn't have held my interest for long.

Will keep fingers crossed.

Thanks.

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