Might and Magic VII Character Classes

TheMadGamer · April 10, 2011

I have a question. The party I made does not have anyone who can be better than 'Beginner' with the Disarm Trap skill. My one character who has the Disarm Trap skill has a skill level of 1. Is it worth it to add 3 points to this skill (for a total of 4 points) even though I cannot promote him to Expert in the disarm trap skill?

I have a second broader question. Is it worth having skill point values in between where you can be promoted in that skill? For example, is it worth having a skill at 2 or 3 for a long while, or is it just better to go directly from 1 to 4 and then promote to expert? Does this hold true for higher levels of the skill? Also, is it worth it to put additional points into a skill after you have achieved grandmaster level?

Zaleukos · April 10, 2011

TheMadGamer said:
Also, is it worth it to put additional points into a skill after you have achieved grandmaster level?

That would probably depend on the skill. I'm no expert on M&M by any means, but I'd say that skills that once you have GM in the skills you want it makes sense to pump your damage dealing skills (armsmaster for knights, whatever offensive magics you use) and healing/buffing skills. Not sure about armour skills.

Repair/ID Item and other skills that have "100% success rate" as the GM bonus should obviously not be raised above 10 points.

Corwin · April 11, 2011

You definitely get benefits from higher skill levels. I certainly boost my magic skills as high as possible; way beyond 10 in the areas I use most.

Maylander · April 11, 2011

Generally, combat skills will always grant benefits per level, so increase them as much as possible.

Utility skills, on the other hand, often reach a point of "100% success" (Grand Master in MM7).

Pre-100% success, skills tend to work like this (if I recall correctly):
Normal: 1, 2, 3, 4 etc
Expert: Doubles the value of the skill, so if you get Expert at 4, your skill is now actually 8. Putting one additional point in that utility skill will give you a normal score of 5, but your actual skill level will be 10 due to being an expert.
Master: Triple effect, so if you get Master at 7, your skill is 21 during skill checks.

In other words: If you can't get Master, an Expert level of 11 (22) will be better than a Master at level 7 (21).

dteowner · April 11, 2011

Everyone has it right so far.

I know there are many maps with an L&T rating of 20+ (some fairly early in the game, too), so you'll be hard-pressed to get that with beginner level.

TheMadGamer · April 11, 2011

Ok I get the general point of everyone's responses. But I still want to ask this, just to be sure before I use up another precious skill point: My one character with the Disarm Trap skill can only be a beginner at that skill. I'm still in the early stages of the game and up to this point, a skill point of 1 in the Disarm Trap skill has been working for the most part. But now Im starting to get hit by traps. So I'm wondering if it would be worth it to up his skill in Disarm Trap to 4. I know that eventually I will progress beyond my ability to Disarm Traps since none of my characters can be anything but beginners at the skill. But do you all think it would be worthwhile for as long as it lasts? Just FYI, I'm a treasure troll and it keeps me up at night passing up chests.

dteowner · April 11, 2011

Each map has a rating. If you meet it, you're good. If you don't, you're hosed. The first few maps you will visit have ratings of 1. After that, it goes up. I believe the next "tier" of maps have ratings of 5. Keep in mind that you can find and/or purchase magic items that will boost that skill. So if you track down a +4 item early on, you'll be able to deal with that next tier of maps, although you'll run into the same problem again when you spread further out in the world.

Personally, for someone that sounds like a complete-ist, you really should consider re-thinking your party before you have too much time invested. Being gimped on L&T or perception (don't know what your situation is there) is going to drive you nuts until you get to mid-game or so, when you can survive trap damage and have found/bought gear to cover the holes in your party build (and there will be holes, no matter what you do).

JDR13 · April 11, 2011

@TheMadGamer, do you still have the strategy guide for M&M7? Not sure, but I thought I remember you mentioning having it. Anyways, it has charts of all the maps and their respecting ratings for hidden doors and traps, etc.

TheMadGamer · April 12, 2011

JDR13 said:
do you still have the strategy guide for M&M7? Not sure, but I thought I remember you mentioning having it. Anyways, it has charts of all the maps and their respecting ratings for hidden doors and traps, etc.

I used to keep strategy guides inside the game box (they used to fit when game boxes were bigger). Two years ago I moved from CA to OR. I still have a bunch of my old games in boxes, in the basement. We don't go in the basement. It reminds us of all the unpacking left to do

@dteowner: ok, thank you for the insights, I understand better now. When I reach maps beyond my Disarm Trap skill I guess I will just have to live with the damage they deliver and hope I can survive most of them.

dteowner · April 12, 2011

Thought I was going to be a hero and dig out my strat guide, but it turns out MM7 is in a box in the garage. MM6 is in my desk. Any chance you could switch games, Mad?

It's the 2nd quarter of the game that's gonna suck for you. You're L&T skill will lag behind the maps and your healing ability won't be up to par yet. Once you get firmly into the mid-game, you'll have the juice to take the damage and not worry about it much. Now, perception is a different story, so hopefully you've got a better situation there.

Corwin · April 12, 2011

OK guys, just managed to find my M&M7 Strat guide, so ask away.

Maylander · April 12, 2011

I never go without decent Perception or Disarm Trap. No need to get GM in my opinion, but Master really is beneficial - 7 points is all it takes, providing a score of 21, which is enough to get through most of the game (all of it if you keep a few items around that'll enhance the skill in question).

Pladio · April 12, 2011

Expert and some extra items did it for me until noone died from a trap, but I wouldn't go with normal...
I usually cast heal (and then regeneration when I got it) after traps, then just keep going...

Benedict · April 12, 2011

Can't you get Earth GM for telekinesis and open traps that way?

If so that might be the mid-end game target and you could muddle through with a few soon to be obsolete points in disarm trap and a couple of items to get you through for now.

TheMadGamer · April 12, 2011

dteowner said:
Thought I was going to be a hero and dig out my strat guide, but it turns out MM7 is in a box in the garage. MM6 is in my desk. Any chance you could switch games, Mad?

I showed my wife your quote above but still was unsuccessful in blaming you as the reason why I will play MM6 next…

@Benedict: Ah I hadn't thought of that… I can get telekenesis up higher!

Since I played MM7 many times when it was first released, I have purposfully made a less than ideal party for the beginning and middle of the game but should have a fairly great damage dealing party in the latter half of the game. I have 1 knight, 1 cleric, and 2 sorcerers… having the 2 sorcerers with the same skill potential really kills the variety potential you would otherwise have by only having 1 sorcerer. But I wanted to try this group out.

Pladio · April 17, 2011

Don't know. I thought that blasters killed everything once I got two of them. Nothing could stand in my way anymore. Cast all the protection spells and then just kill everything. It became a bit too easy...

dteowner · April 17, 2011

Pladio said:
Don't know. I thought that blasters killed everything once I got two of them. Nothing could stand in my way anymore. Cast all the protection spells and then just kill everything. It became a bit too easy…

Some truth to that, but I'd offer that, by the time you got blasters, you were ready for the game to wrap up anyway.

TheMadGamer · May 8, 2011

Just finished my 2011 re-play-through of M&M7. Was a blast, great game! On to M&M8...

JDR13 · May 8, 2011

I'm envious.

I've been looking forward to when I have the time to do full playthroughs of M&M 6-8, but 2011 already looks like a very busy year for me.

TheMadGamer · May 8, 2011

JDR13 said:
I'm envious.

I've been looking forward to when I have the time to do full playthroughs of M&M 6-8, but 2011 already looks like a very busy year for me.

After years of sayiing just that, I finally have committed to playing VII and VIII for sure. I may not play VI at this time. I'm thinking I might be a bit burnt out by the M&M forumula by the time I'm done with VIII.

The Grayface patches sure do make these games a lot better that's for sure.

Might and Magic VII Character Classes

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