BioWare - Christina Norman Leaves Bioware

It makes sense to me. Lizardmen are well known for their love of swiss cheese and they would certainly jump on the opportunity to ran an entire world made out of it.
Now lizardWOMEN... don't even get me started...
 
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If you've ever driven a car in heavy traffic, you should know most women can't think logically :)
Actually, I have driven a car in heavy traffic numerous times and I have witnessed how men start shouting and calling names while women remain calm. I'm not saying that women are more logical than men, but thinking straight in heavy traffic has little to do with logic. When it comes to remaining calm and enduring harsh conditions, women seem to be far better.
 
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When it comes to remaining calm and enduring harsh conditions, women seem to be far better.

Umm... wwhhaaat? :biggrin:

- Let's see... so it's a nice, pleasant 20°C out there with a mild breeze. We -men- are wearing a T-shirt and carrying a light jacket with us just in case. Chick next to us acts as if she is going to freeze to death and keeps on begging to borrow our jacket because it's sooooooooooooooooo cold. Like Antarctica. No really. Wah. Wah. Cry. Beg. Sob. Bitch. Moan.

- It's starting to rain. We -men- begin to whistle Sting's "Englishman in New York", you know, the one with the "a gentleman will walk but never run" line. Chick next to us hysterically runs off in a random direction split seconds after the first drop has landed on her. The really funny part here is that chicks have a habit of starting to run first and look for shelter second. Always a good show.

- Elevator gets stuck. We -men- at least usually do manage to pretend to play it cool. Chick next to us goes ape shit... "What do we do if the lights go out?" (this is where if the chick is good looking you better keep your thoughts to yourself) ... "How long do you think the air will last?"... "Aaaarrghhh. What was that noise?"... "Do you think that the cable will hold up?" (this one is optional fun if you happen to know that you're stuck in a hydraulic elevator)... "What if I have to pee?"... and so on...

Nah. Not very convincing. It's one of those urban myths that chicks endure stress better. If it appears like it then it's only because they got us at their side :) .
 
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Dark Side...

why did this turn into women vs men arguement? >.>



Because Moriendor made a crossover thread hijacking hockey assist … and we men could not resist … the dark side you know …

PS:
I always thought Chris Norman was a singer for the band Smokie ...
 
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It's not a men vs women thread, it's a men > women thread! ;)

j/k

Actually, I thought it quickly turned into a "how women differ from men" thread, which is often perceived as men vs women. I think that has more to do with paranoia and PC-bullshit than anything else :)
 
[..] Nah. Not very convincing. It's one of those urban myths that chicks endure stress better. If it appears like it then it's only because they got us at their side :) .

I understand that women are physically better equipped to endure harsh conditions but men are expected by the society to be tough and are therefore not allowed to cry, beg, sob, bitch, moan.

'A gentleman will walk but never run' not because he doesn't want to run but because he wants to preserve his gentleman status.


"how women differ from men"

"Out you popped, out of your mummie's tumkin and everybody shouting, 'It's a boy, it's a boy!' And somebody said, 'But it hasn't got a winkle!' And then I said, 'A boy without a winkle? God be praised, it's a miracle. A boy without a winkle!' And then Sir Thomas More pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl, and everyone was really disappointed."
 
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When it comes to remaining calm and enduring harsh conditions, women seem to be far better.

No.

Still, the comparison between men and women most often builds on anecdotes and confirmation-bias that builds up concepts based on visual cues.
 
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It's been about a decade years since I was taught it in a psychology class so there's no chance of me locating the source, but I remember that the idea that women endure harsh conditions better was based on survival rates under, among others, severe imprisonment during war and, I think, mass migrations.
 
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I understand that women are physically better equipped to endure harsh conditions but men are expected by the society to be tough and are therefore not allowed to cry, beg, sob, bitch, moan.

Men are forced by old roles, upheld by men and women, to give up a part of their humanity.

Perhaps this had an evolutionary advantage in very harsh conditions, but nowadays it's a demand that men are better of to reject. Men shouldn't accept when they are told not to cry, beg, sob, bitch and moan. They should embrace and understand their emotions because they are a part of their nature.

When a man is expected to become something he rather wouldn't, he should stop and ask the question; "why". When he is asked to "die for his country", when the sons of the upper-class isn't asked the same, he should ask why. When he is expected to take a dangerous job to support his family, he should ask why she isn't expected to do the same (or why she is allowed to bitch when her safe job pay less). When he is asked to work to support the basic needs to survive when the society around him have more than enough resources to reduce his burden, he should ask why.

We aren't ants and shouldn't behave like ants.
 
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You can attempt to explain if you wish, but I doubt I'm buying it. ;)

If I wish? So I assume this is not a matter of you being confused because of my poor use of English but just an attempt to insult me.

If you care to understand what I wanted to say you can read JemyM's last post which pretty much expanded on what I tried to say but was, of course, far better phrased and far more informative and educated than mine.
 
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Expectations tend to reproduce certain behavior. When expectations change, so do the behavior. When it was decided that "women do not play games, so we do not need to market our games to women", the market also locked away large potential markets that successes like The Sims and WII Fit shown to be huge. Many AAA-developers have been poorly served by their marketing bureaus who tend to run on assumptions rather than potential.

Yeah there's no such thing as difference between women and men. It's all based on what we read in magazines, telling us whether we like to wear lipstick or watch monster trucks. No part of it is biological.

Sure women like games, but they don't necessarily like the same types of games men do. I find that women who do enjoy RPGs like the aspects that I completely loathe, the same kind of crap larpers like. They are actually pretty well served by games like Oblivion and Mass Effect. Guys who loved the original edition DnD or who enjoy dungeon crawlers are pretty well out of luck, though.

When developers start talk about serving women and casual gamers what they really mean is they are coming in for a new round of dumbing down and catering to the least common denominator. Numbers and stats blah, get those out of here. We'll have a happy meter and a hungry meter and 666 ways to customize your character. We don't need a game at all, just cutscene content that's interesting enough to get people to waste 12 minutes to get to the next ultraawesome cutscene.
 
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If I wish? So I assume this is not a matter of you being confused because of my poor use of English but just an attempt to insult me..

You assume wrong.


If you care to understand what I wanted to say you can read JemyM's last post which pretty much expanded on what I tried to say but was, of course, far better phrased and far more informative and educated than mine.

JemyM's post doesn't say anything about women being physically better equipped to endure harsh conditions.
 
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It's been about a decade years since I was taught it in a psychology class so there's no chance of me locating the source, but I remember that the idea that women endure harsh conditions better was based on survival rates under, among others, severe imprisonment during war and, I think, mass migrations.

So that's our "evidence" for such a thing?

How about we call it a theory :)

As for my personal experience, it doesn't take into account how much is biological or how much is societal/environmental/cultural - but simply that there are notable differences between men and women, beyond the obvious biological ones.

I understand that some people want to entertain the theory that there really isn't much of a difference, but it means fuck all when you're living in the real world and you witness human behaviour on a daily basis.

Even if our minds worked in an identical way - we'd still have some pretty severe physical differences that DIRECTLY impact our psychological development or conditioning. The simple fact that men are physically superior, for instance, has a huge impact on our behavioural patterns - and I don't see that going away any time soon.

So, playing around with the notion that we're psychologically identical or we have - all things being equal - identical mental capacities in all ways - is fine.

It's when this is taken from the very shaky theory realm into the realm of "facts" - that people start to appear foolish.
 
You assume wrong.
Ok, sorry for that then. I assumed so because you seemed content with vaguely pointing out a mistake without bothering to clarify what you wanted from me.

JemyM's post doesn't say anything about women being physically better equipped to endure harsh conditions.
Why does this one word fascinates you so? You don't need to dwell on it - I'll be the first one to admit that my English is far from perfect and maybe I could have used a much better phrasing (in my language we only have one word that means both 'physical' and 'natural' so some misuse can be expected) but taking one sentence out of context only serves to deform my point. My post was not about the 'physical equipment' or whatever of women, it was about the behavior of men and JemyM explained it very well I think.



So that's our "evidence" for such a thing?

How about we call it a theory :)

Not 'evidence' as such, more like a half-faded memory. I thought I'd mention it in hopes that someone would offer the actual evidence to back it up.

It is nonetheless something I learned while studying and I'm inclined to believe it (even without remembering specifics) until I have evidence to the contrary.


As for my personal experience, it doesn't take into account how much is biological or how much is societal/environmental/cultural - but simply that there are notable differences between men and women, beyond the obvious biological ones.
Fair enough, but since I'm taking that into account we start from a different basis and we can't really disagree.

I mean, I will certainly not disagree that men and women generally behave differently. I'm more interested in why and to what extend these differences are dictated by nature.
 
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Not 'evidence' as such, more like a half-faded memory. I thought I'd mention it in hopes that someone would offer the actual evidence to back it up.

I have no doubt experiments and research exist to support any number of things. Sadly, in my experience, such experiments are pathetically simplistic and ignore so many vital potentially influencing factors that they end up laughable.

Why? Because it's obscenely demanding to conduct thorough experiements on human beings and their psyche/body. You don't really have a lot of ways to introduce the millions of weighing factors in a test. Even less so, when you base your conclusions on something beyond our control and beyond our own ability to witness the nuances that happen during the period of time said events take place.

However, if anyone can point out the "most popular" evidence to support these things, I'll gladly take a look at it. If I can't find obvious flaws - I'll concede it's very possible that women are physically superior in terms of endurance.
It is nonetheless something I learned while studying and I'm inclined to believe it (even without remembering specifics) until I have evidence to the contrary.

See, that kind of basis seems awfully fickle and weak to me. In fact, I find it impossible to understand how anyone could hold a firm position based on something they only vaguely remember.

That's why I almost exclusively go by my own personal experience, based on careful and extremely interested observation. The human mind is my number one interest in life, and so I have a natural tendency to observe things many might not.

I categorise and challenge these observations and following conclusions on a daily basis - and I have no desire to believe women are in any way inferior. In fact, I find the entire idea of inferiority meaningless when it comes to human beings. There's no way to determine that anyway. Ýou can pick out distinct physical characteristics like muscle-mass and physical strength, but it as nothing to do with being "superior" in an overall sense. It's just a feature.

But there are patterns of behavior that I can't ignore, if they constantly emerge and make themselves obvious. What Jemy calls "confirmation bias" is just another concept that's all too easy to put on others. To automatically assume that any opinion is based on "confirmation bias" is the same as declaring yourself incapable of being objective. So, I don't have any respect for such statements.

If Jemy bothered to listen to what was said before rushing to a conclusion, I might be willing to believe his position was objective - rather than simple arrogance and a need to appear clever.

Fair enough, but since I'm taking that into account we start from a different basis and we can't really disagree.

The reason I don't take it into account, is that I find it hopeless to discern where one thing ends and another begins in terms of physical/societal/cultural impact - at this stage of our knowledge and technology.

What we have right now, are a bunch of completely inadequate theories and measurements of the brain, and social experiences/experiments. There has yet to be a single defining way of saying WHY men and women have their easily observable differences.

Unlike many "science" people, I don't jump on the most popular and supported theory as "fact" - as it suits me. I have to see and understand things, and they have to fit together in a cohesive whole.

You can find a theory to support any foregone conclusion, but that doesn't work for me. I have to form my theories on what I consider to be reality. It's no good to wish for something or muse upon a couple of observations, and then find a scientific theory to support it. At least, you'd have to have a lot more faith in the scientific process than I have.

I mean, I will certainly not disagree that men and women generally behave differently. I'm more interested in why and to what extend these differences are dictated by nature.

Good luck figuring that out :)

Jemy seems to hold the answer, so it should be within reach!
 
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