Fallout 4 - Good Game, bad RPG @ PC Gamer

To me 'what is an rpg' can be broken down into an old saying

'I don't know what art is but know it when I see it'

Fallout 4 has rpg elements and very lite choice and consequence compared to others in this category. Meaning that sometimes the only option you have to resolve a quest is to go in guns blazing.

That doesn't mean its not a rpg, but like the author said 'not a very good one'. That doesn't mean the game is not a fun game in its own right, but if your expectations of a fallout game were defined by fallout 1, 2 or NV then you will probably be disappointed like I am (not surprised mind you). My brother is enjoying this game for what it is ~ mindless entertainment. I don't intend to purchase because I prefer rpg games to have a coherent world design (not theme park) with some good choice and consequence.

I'm sure Fallout 4 is a good "exploration" game and looks nice enough. Somehow I'm just not very excited to play this any time soon.
I just bought Icy, Heroes of Steel, Highlands and The Witcher: Adventure Game in the Steam Winter Sale, which I'm reeeeeally looking forward to playing.
So I guess I will wait for the GotY version of Fallout and a good discount...

I guess I'll actually weigh in. I don't think it's much of an RPG either. I agree with the PC Gamer writer, or at least with the excerpt posted here. The dialogue wheel and voicing of the player character are possibly the biggest hindrances. The choices you make on the crappy dialogue wheel don't seem to make a damn bit of difference in my game at 25 hours in. Worse, my character never has anything interesting to say. I cringe a little inside each time I choose one of the mysterious options. And I'm a fan of character development. There isn't much of that here, either.

That said, I'm still enjoying the game. I like exploration and sandboxes. People always complain about story in Bethesda games, and I get that. I just don't care that much. I just wander off into the sunset, leaving the story behind, and exist in their sandbox worlds as long as they interest me. It's a shame Bethesda continues to dumb down character development, but it's still a damn good sandbox. And, surprisingly, I like the base building. It's a nice break from slow-motion cranial explosions. The crafting is nice, too, for when it's time to get back to exploding heads.

Bethesda doesn't really care what designation that people decide to call their game, as long as they paid for a copy and helped to make the game the rousing success that it is.
Since there are 300,000 people playing it at 1 am on a Wednesday, I'm sure they're happy.

Sure they are. Still I'm groaning when thinking about what a great full-fledged RPG could have been created with a big budget like this.
However if the new Fallout games were full-fledged RPGs, their budget most likely wouldn't be this big.

Started playing yesterday. Let's see.

both witcher and f4 suck imo. foudn no immersion in them.
the market is so dried up of quality AAAs that its easy to get a hit
non rpgs or poor rpgs, who cares )

If you like neither TW3 nor FO4 I think it's indeed difficult for you to find rpg-like AAA games these days.

Morrandir said:

If you like neither TW3 nor FO4 I think it's indeed difficult for you to find rpg-like AAA games these days.

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I would say the Roots of the big 2, BioWare and Bethesda, comes from making great RPG games. Now they make big budget RPG Style games people love and others hate.

CPR is now one of the big 3, I would say in RPG style games. Though I wouldn't say they have the grass roots or back log of games like the other two companies.

What is true of all three though is:

1- Gaming reviews do not get them a score under 8.5 ever, even if the person that have write the review has never played a game on a PC or even played a RPG.

2- Fanboy will defend even the most blatant flaw.

3- Trolls will find everything wrong with the game even if they haven't played it.

At the end of the day only you the person that bought and played the game can say it was worth the investment of time and money to play it. So who the hell cares if it a RPG or a Story RPG or Shooter RPG or Old School RPG etc. as long as you liked it

Wow this thread took of a little. I am with whomever it was that said in the end if someone who is playing it considers it an RPG then who is someone else to say otherwise?

IMO only I consider it more of an RPG then a shooter ... because I am almost never shooting in it

I play a melee type and I think so far I have used a gun twice (once in Concord and once some place where I couldn't figure out how to reach someone and was getting annoyed). I have really high charisma and avoid some combat that way. Other times I sneak past things. When needed I waltz in and melee with my sword or furious fist.

I played for almost 5 hours last night - it has been a very long time since I played any game that long in one sitting. At 51 I have some issues with my arm and wrist, and eyes get tired after a 9 hour day at work on the computer. Yet I was having so much fun I was up past midnight playing.

While it has its flaws (and I could list them but no need since we have plenty of people who are kind enough to mention them in every post in case we forget) I find the writing is really good for Bethesda. Some of the quests, especially the main (the one I did last night was excellent), are surprisingly well done. To me at least. I am enjoying myself immensely and was completely immersed in the game world late into the night.

To me that is a solid fun RPG. I am role playing an anti-tech light armored melee urban ranger out with his dog helping the common wealth.

But you know what? I have my own definition of what an RPG is that I use to buy my games. I don't really worry if other people don't share that view point because thankfully they are not buying my games for me.

CelticFrost said:

At the end of the day only you the person that bought and played the game can say it was worth the investment of time and money to play it. So who the hell cares if it a RPG or a Story RPG or Shooter RPG or Old School RPG etc. as long as you liked it

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Agreed! And yet some people insist that games by their favourite company have to tick all of the boxes or their appeal will be somehow diminished.

CelticFrost said:

So who the hell cares if it a RPG or a Story RPG or Shooter RPG or Old School RPG etc.

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People in an RPG specific site I guess… If you find the concept of the discussion of the nature of an RPG to be a "who cares" issue while contributing daily to an RPG specific site then perhaps you've, I dunno, lost the plot maybe?

wolfgrimdark said:

Wow this thread took of a little. I am with whomever it was that said in the end if someone who is playing it considers it an RPG then who is someone else to say otherwise?

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So you prefer threads that don't "take off"? But anyway, as to your next point, I refer you to the reply I gave Celtic above.

wolfgrimdark said:

IMO only I consider it more of an RPG then a shooter … because I am almost never shooting in it

I play a melee type and I think so far I have used a gun twice (once in Concord and once some place where I couldn't figure out how to reach someone and was getting annoyed). I have really high charisma and avoid some combat that way. Other times I sneak past things. When needed I waltz in and melee with my sword or furious fist.

I played for almost 5 hours last night - it has been a very long time since I played any game that long in one sitting. At 51 I have some issues with my arm and wrist, and eyes get tired after a 9 hour day at work on the computer. Yet I was having so much fun I was up past midnight playing.

While it has its flaws… I find the writing is really good for Bethesda. Some of the quests, especially the main (the one I did last night was excellent), are surprisingly well done. To me at least. I am enjoying myself immensely and was completely immersed in the game world late into the night.

To me that is a solid fun RPG. I am role playing an anti-tech light armored melee urban ranger out with his dog helping the common wealth.

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Fair point, you make some useful and good valid points.

wolfgrimdark said:

(and I could list them but no need since we have plenty of people who are kind enough to mention them in every post in case we forget)

But you know what? I have my own definition of what an RPG is that I use to buy my games. I don't really worry if other people don't share that view point because thankfully they are not buying my games for me.

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What's with all this crap? Who cares what other people write, when I read your post I'm interested in your opinions, not someone else's. I have no idea what you think the game's flaws are nor whether they are the same flaws random poster X might have mentioned. To be honest it comes across more that you don't want to mention any flaws for some reason, which devalues the good points you make because now you appear overly-biased and therefore more disingenuous.

Of course you have your own definition of what an RPG is, everyone does, but what's the point of saying that? What does that add to the wider knowledge pool? That you're the kind of person who doesn't give a crap about other people's opinions? Well, if that's your attitude why should anyone give a crap about your opinion? If you don't give a crap about whether people give a crap about your opinion, why are you posting your opinions in a forum?

CelticFrost said:

2- Fanboy will defend even the most blatant flaw.

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Right, except with TW3 which is perfect and has no flaws.

HiddenX said:

Because the focus is more on solving quests than on shooting and the game features stats/skills.

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Not in my experience. Shooting and looting was 75% of things I did. 20% was crafting and 5% solving quest or talking about quests. Under that 75% I also include walking between places where I shoot and loot.

Archangel said:

Not in my experience. Shooting and looting was 75% of things I did. 20% was crafting and 5% solving quest or talking about quests. Under that 75% I also include walking between places where I shoot and loot.

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Remember, Bethesda only cares if you bought the game...you pirated it and your opinion no longer counts to them.

borcanu said:

both witcher and f4 suck imo. foudn no immersion in them.
the market is so dried up of quality AAAs that its easy to get a hit
non rpgs or poor rpgs, who cares )

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If you are looking for good (read: hardcore/classic/real) RPGs, you won't have much luck in the AAA area. Go look the other way!

You can get Underrail for about 8 Euros, which is what Fallout 3 was supposed to be. We live in the golden age of RPGs atm. Old, new, remastered, indie, 3D, isometric... you can have it all.

[stalker]I'm sure he knows that, he's got over 850 posts since 2008 on a whole range of RPGs. The notable feature of Borcanu, which you'll get used to as you stay here longer, is that he only ever posts in the News forum. Well, that's not strictly true, somewhere back in 2013 he posted in the Expeditions: Conquistador forum to tell everyone "Ok. I've had it... stopped playing". [/stalker]

lackblogger said:

What's with all this crap? Who cares what other people write, when I read your post I'm interested in your opinions, not someone else's. I have no idea what you think the game's flaws are nor whether they are the same flaws random poster X might have mentioned. To be honest it comes across more that you don't want to mention any flaws for some reason, which devalues the good points you make because now you appear overly-biased and therefore more disingenuous.

Of course you have your own definition of what an RPG is, everyone does, but what's the point of saying that? What does that add to the wider knowledge pool? That you're the kind of person who doesn't give a crap about other people's opinions? Well, if that's your attitude why should anyone give a crap about your opinion? If you don't give a crap about whether people give a crap about your opinion, why are you posting your opinions in a forum?

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Now that's what I call a completely useless rant.

If you don't give a crap about whether people give a crap about your opinion, why are you posting your opinions in a forum?

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Well one reason is some people may find it helpful or useful. That doesn't mean the person posting it has to care if people "Give a crap". I personally don't think it very health to live your life caring what others think or worrying if they care about what I like or don't like.

rune_74 said:

Remember, Bethesda only cares if you bought the game…you pirated it and your opinion no longer counts to them.

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It counts if they want me to buy any of their future games. Unlike EA games or Ubisoft, Bethesda uses Steam so I don't have any problem buying their games if they are actually good.

JDR13 said:

Now that's what I call a completely useless rant.

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No, the words I was critiquing was the rant, a critique is not a rant.

CelticFrost said:

Well one reason is some people may find it helpful or useful. That doesn't mean the person posting it has to care if people "Give a crap". I personally don't think it very health to live your life caring what others think or worrying if they care about what I like or don't like.

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Well... the topic is about whether you think F4 is more of a shooter than an RPG and that if you think it's an RPG do you you think it's a good RPG (as oppose to a good game, which is a different topic). To then march in and say "who gives a crap about people's opinion's" is basically like saying "what a crap topic", which, if you thought that, why are you posting? We've established that whether the game is good/enjoyable isn't the topic, but you insist on repeating that the topic should be "is the game good or not".

So you're thinking that you're posts are useful to someone? Well, they're off-topic and tantamount to trying to shut people down who are discussing the topic - so no, I do not think they're useful and, personally, I'd give a crap about that for no other reason than I am a reasonable person