PoE What class for your main character in PoE?

Pillars of Eternity
Just give me one scenario as an example. Maybe I just don't get what you mean.

You had to make choices in the IE games if you wanted to cover all the skills. In PoE, it sounds like you can have a party consisting of 5 barbarians and still have every skill. I realize that some people see that as a positive feature, but I liked how the IE games encouraged diversity.
 
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You had to make choices in the IE games if you wanted to cover all the skills. In PoE, you can have a party consisting of 5 barbarians and still have every skill. I realize that some people see that as a positive feature, but I liked how the IE games encouraged diversity.

Just to play devil's advocate, I think that can be viewed as a negative within the IE games: That encouragement of "diversity" actually led to less creative parties because, while technically possible, it wasn't very viable to break away from the standard party composition.

I think it sounds like a lot of fun to have - just to go off of your example - 5 barbarians in a party and have that be a viable approach. After all, doesn't it make sense for people of similar backgrounds to band together? And that's just one possible party composition out of what appears to be many "role-playing" possibilities.

On paper, I think it sounds like it encourages more creativity than the IE games. Like I said, time will tell.
 
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It encourges "class" diversity. Hopefully there's motivation for the same in PoE. It doesn't have to be skills. It could be equipment, or quests, too, although that may be less motivating for some...
 
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Lockpicks don't work for spotting secrets and traps, disarming traps or in scripted events when dealing with mechanical things that aren't locks. All things that fall under Mechanics.

It should also be noted that the player's skills are the only one checked in dialogues, so you will probably miss out regardless of how the party is build because you can't invest heavily in all the skills (2 is about the max) on a single character.
 
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Just give me one scenario as an example. Maybe I just don't get what you mean.
The imagination is stimulated when you can not do everything, even as a party. It's intensified if some things can only be done by one class. In NWN2 I remember having played a Ranger. He was, I believe, the only one who could talk to animals or easily identify foot prints. Those things weren't life-changing, but they were thematic gameplay elements. If I didn't have a Ranger in the group, I'd see foot prints but would have no idea what they mean, or see calm animals that try to tell me something, without being able to understand them.

Something along those lines. Diversity like that is a good thing, because it provides for lots of "what if…" moments. What if I had a paladin or cleric with me, he could turn those undead. What if I had taken that non-combat skill. I could solve this problem differently.

Having only a few non-combat skills reduces this feeling of diversity and class identity, the theme. The reason for having so few was, from what I read, that they wanted to make every skill be used a lot, instead of having many that are barely used at all or only in edge cases. Personally I'd have preferred more non-essential or utility skills for more individual flavor.


On the other hand, of course, it's possible to have non-standard sub-classes this way, like an athletic mage who knows a lot about wildlife, which is fine too. Just not as thematic, the latter of which is why there are archetypes in the first place.

It should also be noted that the player's skills are the only one checked in dialogues, so you will probably miss out regardless of how the party is build because you can't invest heavily in all the skills (2 is about the max) on a single character.
That's a good thing, although it also sounds a little backwards and unintuitive. As in: why would party members contribute in combat and wildlife situations, but not in conversations?
 
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Yeah, as mentioned before. I don't see a single scenario where "locked down" paths would have a positive effect. The system how it is just offers more diversity without having a negative aspect if you are "realistic".

Let's just say you have a dialogue and besides [Diplomatic][Aggressive][Honest] you also have [Might][Dexterity][Intelligence]

Now are you going to chose each option, reload and try the next? You could do so of course, but would you do that?
Now you cant have all your attributes that high on the main character. So that might disable the [Might] Option for example. So you still have this "leaving up to your imagination" part. However this [Might] Option might not have been any better than one of the standard option.

So in dialogues I really don't see a point. You could even argue that having people being able to learn everything gives additional freedom in the systems as you could punish characters who didn't train everything as the scenario I mentioned with the broken stairs. All your characters are checked for athletics. The one who doesnt have 2 or more, breaks a leg. Not possible in a system where only the designated rogue or whatever would increase that skill.

In addition from what I have seen there are also mostly multiple ways to solve something.
So one example given in a preview is the following (Spoiler ahead)
You need to infiltrate a castle. You can 1. fight your way through, 2. climb walls and disguise yourself 3.go through the sewers. Now each way comes with different skill checks, some on the main character, some on other characters. While you might just play through the one way and then reload and try the other, that is unlikely. Even if you hit a situation you cannot pass, you might try the other method. In addition you could either squeeze through the sewer gate by an athletics check, or you could use a iron to break in. At least in this example the variance is huge. Unless you reload to test every single thing, there is tons "left to your imagination"
 
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The imagination is stimulated when you can not do everything, even as a party. It's intensified if some things can only be done by one class. In NWN2 I remember having played a Ranger. He was, I believe, the only one who could talk to animals or easily identify foot prints. Those things weren't life-changing, but they were thematic gameplay elements. If I didn't have a Ranger in the group, I'd see foot prints but would have no idea what they mean, or see calm animals that try to tell me something, without being able to understand them.

You will still have that. As dialogues are only done by the main character as mentioned by azarhal. On these scripted story checks however you can also select one of your companions most of the time from what I have seen.
 
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On these scripted story checks however you can also select one of your companions most of the time from what I have seen.

Quite a few scripted events check everyone in the party as well.
 
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Just to play devil's advocate, I think that can be viewed as a negative within the IE games: That encouragement of "diversity" actually led to less creative parties because, while technically possible, it wasn't very viable to break away from the standard party composition.

I think it sounds like a lot of fun to have - just to go off of your example - 5 barbarians in a party and have that be a viable approach. After all, doesn't it make sense for people of similar backgrounds to band together? And that's just one possible party composition out of what appears to be many "role-playing" possibilities.

I don't think that sounds like very much fun at all, and I can't imagine many people going with such a party.

In fact, that pretty much defeats the purpose of party-based gaming for me. Having a party of adventurers with different skills and backgrounds is what it's all about for most people. I can't see the point of having 5 similar characters, and it certainly isn't more creative.
 
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I guess the normal case is that you will generate your main character and then recruit 5 of the 8 designed classes which all come with a backstory and probably with quests. And some with unique abilities. E.g. the Paladin you can recruit is of the Avian Godlike race, unavailable for the player. The priest is following an order not available to the player and so on.

Personally I will not create any additional custom characters. Because I would 1. miss out on some cool story moments of companions 2. it would feel like a placeholder character 3. it would feel like cheating for me. As you can design them with better distribution of attributes than the pre-defined characters. And of course you could build cookie cutter party setups. So to me creating custom companions is like opening pandoras box. And much like cheating there is no "just cheating a bit" for me. Either I cheat or I don't. And I rather not do that.
Of course others might see that differently. But I am probably also pretty alone with my "challenge-based" approach of games.
 
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For me, it's about cobbling together a rugged band of adventurers who all have their own unique skills, but not necessarily building a 'perfect' party, whatever you would classify that as. I actually quite like parties made up of random characters that aren't necessarily "by the book". That's one of the reasons I love party-based RPGs so much.

2 rogues, 2 wizards, a priest and a fighter is fun for me. Not saying that's what I usually go with, but I like a mish-mash that somehow makes it work, even though it's not 'ideal'. :)

Right now my party is myself (Ranger), Wizard, Priest, Chanter, Ranger, Fighter. Fun times. ;)
 
I don't think that sounds like very much fun at all, and I can't imagine many people going with such a party.

In fact, that pretty much defeats the purpose of party-based gaming for me. Having a party of adventurers with different skills and backgrounds is what it's all about for most people.

Right, but that's kind of my point in a roundabout way: That composition is unappealing to you, but it's still viable for someone who does find that appealing. It seems like party compositions will be more "personal" as a result, where the party can be unique to each person's tastes and ideas.

So, you can make a typical D&D type of party, but you can also branch out and do something completely different. I like having more choices, so I think it's worth the drawbacks that you mention. That's going to vary from person to person of course, and I respect that.
 
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Right, but that's kind of my point in a roundabout way: That composition is unappealing to you, but it's still viable for someone who does find that appealing. It seems like party compositions will be more "personal" as a result, where the party can be unique to each person's tastes and ideas.

So, you can make a typical D&D type of party, but you can also branch out and do something completely different. I like having more choices, so I think it's worth the drawbacks that you mention. That's going to vary from person to person of course, and I respect that.

I question how many people will find a party of 5 barbarians appealing, but sure. I also don't think there was ever a problem creating parties that were unique to people's taste in the IE games.
 
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I question how many people will find a party of 5 barbarians appealing, but sure.

To clarify, I was just using that as an example because you brought it up ;). It's a very extreme and unrealistic example, but it illustrates the potential freedom that players will seem to have in party creation and character development.
 
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But of course, to be realistic, 5 barbarians might have a hard time on harder difficulties due to missing symbiosis and heal. ^^
 
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But of course, to be realistic, 5 barbarians might have a hard time on harder difficulties due to missing symbiosis and heal. ^^

Indeed, and as much as I love the idea of freedom in party creation that PoE might offer, there should be at least some drawback to not having any diversity. I think we can all agree on that ;)
 
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To clarify, I was just using that as an example because you brought it up ;). It's a very extreme and unrealistic example, but it illustrates the potential freedom that players will seem to have in party creation and character development.

Freedom vs less choices I guess. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.
 
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Freedom vs less choices I guess. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Me too :). It's certainly an interesting experiment, and it's one of the few areas that Obsidian is actually trying to innovate with and bring something new to the IE formula, so we shall see.

(And I still disagree about there being "less choices," but since I can't be certain until I play it myself, I'll just leave it alone ;))
 
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I wouldnt say less choices. I would say that you are less "locked down" before each choice.

So if you have an Encounter in a D&D game, lets say you have 6 options. And two of them are available to you.

In PoE in the same scenario 5 of these options are available to you.

So you aren't loked away from these choices. But of course this also means that while you can replay the game, there isn't a "class locked choice" in each scenario you were previously locked out from. So if you consider this a choice you make at the very beginning of the game, then yes, you have less choices. But for each event you have more choices.
 
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I don't think there's any doubt that there are less choices, but I won't try to convince you. :)

There also seems to be less variety in spells, etc., but I can't be sure as I haven't seen everything yet.
 
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