Sword Coast Legends - on Dungeon Masters and CRPG revival

PCGamer have interviewed Dan Tudge about Sword Coast Legends and its place in the crpg revival.

PC Gamer: There's something of a CRPG resurgence right now. Why do you think that's happening now, and where do you think Sword Coast Legends first into that?

Tudge: The video game industry has evolved to allow developers to connect directly with players. We see this with Kickstarter and direct to consumer digital distribution like Steam. Couple this evolution with game developers-and players-love of the isometric CRPG and I think you're seeing a resurgence of this genre because we can finally make the games we've been longing to make for years. Sword Coast Legends' DM Mode put's a unique spin on the genre, one that will give players the tools to tell their own stories for years to come.

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PC Gamer: Can you talk about the story of Sword Coast Legends? How can players shape the narrative of the single-player?

Tudge: I don't want to spoil too much here so I'll just set it up. You are members of the Order of the Burning Dawn, a somewhat ‘standard' guild whose origins have been lost over the last 100 years. Recently you've become hunted by the Gilded Eye, a particularly brutal offshoot of Order of the Gauntlet. Players will need to unravel this ruthless agenda and perhaps save all of Faerûn in the process. Throughout their adventures players will meet companions, travel the surface of Faerûn and even journey deep into the Underdark. Players will definitely make choices along the way, determining not just their fate, but the fate of many others.

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More information.

For all the obvious comparisons between NWN and SCL it's good to keep in mind that NWN had couple of decades of D&D lore and system to draw from while SCL doesn't. You can't really replicate that.

Hm? Why shouldn't SCL have the same lore?

That was my thought as well…

Tugde is such a liar. And we learned when he does not want to talk about something in details we should be worried.
He didn't want to talk about player generation for months and we got a mmo as a result.
Same for campaign creation and it is lacking a lot.
And now single player campaign…
I expect a linear dungeon crawling experience with crappy everything.

Looks like they asked the right guys! /irony

Morrandir said:

Hm? Why shouldn't SCL have the same lore?

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Sorta. D&D 1E to 3E was from 1358DR to 1379DR (less or more), it was pretty stable in term of lore evolution and it lasted a long time too.

Wizard decided to jump 4E to 1479DR and created a 100 years gap in the process that doesn't have much stuff in it.

Wizard decided to jump 4E to 1479DR and created a 100 years gap in the process that doesn't have much stuff in it.

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You are right in that there is not much covered about that 100 year gap;however, the story picks right up after that gap and there is a ton of lore already along with the fact that most of the locations and towns are still there. Plenty of lore concerning the Underdark and the controlling factions of the Dark Elves are also there.

I almost pulled the trigger on the Quickstart weekend but after reading the comments on the Steam forums I am happy I didn't. Granted, the early access people didnt receive much but module creation seems so basic and people are complaining, company people are saying game is a work in progress,blah,blah.

redman5427 said:

I almost pulled the trigger on the Quickstart weekend but after reading the comments on the Steam forums I am happy I didn't. Granted, the early access people didnt receive much but module creation seems so basic and people are complaining, company people are saying game is a work in progress,blah,blah.

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People have been extremely negative with the game since pretty much day one, to a point where it's ridiculous. It's like some people have two levels of opinions: "best game ever", and "worse game ever", usually the later. Some of those users on Steam were posting negative comments before the head start was released, and now they keep at it, posting over and over how the game is a pile of crap, even on topics expressing positive feedback.

I have access to the quickstart weekend, and for what it's worth, after playing it for a bit, I'm kind of excited of what will come in the future for the game.

As it stands, it is a bit rough around the edges (it probably needed another month of polish), and the combat needs a few tweaks, but the game has a few awesome things that I quite liked.
First of all, most people posting negative comments about the quests/content/design/loot apparently failed to notice that they didn't get access to the actual campaign, the main course. On this head start phase 2, you can either:
-play custom modules made by other users (and since users only started working on their modules at best since head start phase 1, which was a week or so ago, of course they still haven't had the time to make good, properly polished content), many of which are unpolished and/or of bad level design, and some users think that is the actual game/campaign;
-play random dungeon crawls, an action-based mode, with no story, which again isn't really representative of how the campaign will be, in terms of story and/or quest design, or even loot.

This later random dungeon crawl mode is actually a very cool idea, with a lot of potential. Basically, you (and other players, since you can play this with up to four players, from what I gather) spawn at a campsite, where you have vendors and other NPCs, and there's a cave where you go do your dungeon crawling. With just a few clicks, you generate what you want from the cave: the number of levels, quests (you have "kill x enemy x number of times", "gather x item x number of times" and "kill x boss" quests, where the items, enemies, and bosses, and even quest rewards you can select with a few clicks), loot, and a few other customization options. That is a fun mode, with great potential, especially if you want to play with a few friends.

Even if the campaign ends up being totally trash, with this random dungeon crawl mode (which you can just fire up and play alone, or with friends, for a couple hours of dungeon crawling), the Dungeon Master mode, and the potential community built modules, I'm sure I'll get my money's worth.

And on a side note, I'm enjoying the soundtrack.
EDIT: Here's a sample from the OST:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYVjtQaXl0A
I wasn't aware who was the composer for this game. It's Inon Zur. I quite liked the tracks I heard so far.

FunktionJCB said:

People have been extremely negative with the game since pretty much day one, to a point where it's ridiculous. It's like some people have two levels of opinions: "best game ever", and "worse game ever", usually the later. Some of those users on Steam were posting negative comments before the head start was released, and now they keep at it, posting over and over how the game is a pile of crap, even on topics expressing positive feedback.

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Because they are not fanboys.

I have access to the quickstart weekend, and for what it's worth, after playing it for a bit, I'm kind of excited of what will come in the future for the game.

As it stands, it is a bit rough around the edges (it probably needed another month of polish), and the combat needs a few tweaks, but the game has a few awesome things that I quite liked.

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Good for you. Does not change how the game is for others.

First of all, most people posting negative comments about the quests/content/design/loot apparently failed to notice that they didn't get access to the actual campaign, the main course. On this head start phase 2, you can either:
-play custom modules made by other users (and since users only started working on their modules at best since head start phase 1, which was a week or so ago, of course they still haven't had the time to make good, properly polished content), many of which are unpolished and/or of bad level design, and some users think that is the actual game/campaign;
-play random dungeon crawls, an action-based mode, with no story, which again isn't really representative of how the campaign will be, in terms of story and/or quest design, or even loot.

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This is a fair point but maybe devs should have released the game with some content of their own, some dungeons/quest made by them to mimic how player made content could look.

This later random dungeon crawl mode is actually a very cool idea, with a lot of potential. Basically, you (and other players, since you can play this with up to four players, from what I gather) spawn at a campsite, where you have vendors and other NPCs, and there's a cave where you go do your dungeon crawling. With just a few clicks, you generate what you want from the cave: the number of levels, quests (you have "kill x enemy x number of times", "gather x item x number of times" and "kill x boss" quests, where the items, enemies, and bosses, and even quest rewards you can select with a few clicks), loot, and a few other customization options. That is a fun mode, with great potential, especially if you want to play with a few friends.

Even if the campaign ends up being totally trash, with this random dungeon crawl mode (which you can just fire up and play alone, or with friends, for a couple hours of dungeon crawling), the Dungeon Master mode, and the potential community built modules, I'm sure I'll get my money's worth.

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This will get boring within few hours for most people. Not worth the price for the game.

And on a side note, I'm enjoying the soundtrack.

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Unfortunately this is best part of the game.

I have access to the quickstart weekend, and for what it's worth, after playing it for a bit, I'm kind of excited of what will come in the future for the game.

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I appreciate your comments and hearing from somebody who is in the early access. I think you are right about the game needing time. I will wait and hopefully they will patch in more needed things.

If someone wants to pick it up cheaper, GMG has it for 26.95 I heard.

FunktionJCB said:

People have been extremely negative with the game since pretty much day one, to a point where it's ridiculous. It's like some people have two levels of opinions: "best game ever", and "worse game ever", usually the later. Some of those users on Steam were posting negative comments before the head start was released, and now they keep at it, posting over and over how the game is a pile of crap, even on topics expressing positive feedback.

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Unfortunately, we're living in the age of internet hyperbole in which rational, balance viewpoints get ignored. To get attention, posters take an extreme perspective. Much of what they say is complete bullocks, of course.

Archangel said:

Because they are not fanboys.

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So posting extremely negative comments, and insults to the developers, pretty much non-stop, without even playing the game, is because "they are not fanboys"?
Give me a break.

So, with that logic, since I posted something positive, that makes me a fanboy, right? A fanboy of what, the developer? Never heard of them. Dungeons & Dragons? Sorry, I haven't touched a single board game in 20 years or so, and I certainly don't have any special feelings about the brand, at all.

People are entitled to their opinions. Some people will enjoy the game, some won't. That's perfectly fine.
What isn't fine is resorting to insults to the developers of a game, or the people who enjoy it, because a certain game is not to one's liking.

You know, I don't care at all for the recent Elder Scrolls titles. But you won't ever catch me on a topic for these games telling off people from playing the game, or insulting their tastes.

I fully believe that some called RPG "fans" never liked a game outside of Fallout, or Baldur's Gate. Really, with each new release, there's always something negative to say. Divinity: Original Sin? Bad. Pillars of Eternity? Mediocre. Wasteland 2? A mess. Roguelike? Trash. Action RPGs? Trash.
And so on.

Have you played the game, Archangel? If you did, and you did not enjoy it, you can always refund the game on Steam, and skip to another title. Problem solved.
If you didn't, I really don't know what to tell you. I know some people look at screenshots, and read a few forum posts, and know right there if they like the game or not. Me, call me old-fashioned, but I usually like to try things myself.

Sword Coast Legends won't win any big originality awards. Sure, and I don't believe anyone was expecting it to.
But, if it manages to gather a community around it, like Neverwinter Nights did, it has the potential to be a title that in a couple of years people still have the game installed, because of user mods, or because of the Dungeon Master mode, or that dungeon crawling mode that, if more content is added, has the potential to be a fun diversion.
Plus, it's available for under $30/€30 at many places such as Green Man Gaming, so it's a relatively accessible game, pricing-wise.

I don't think insults should be posted but again that depends on what is considered a insult. If they are insulting developers know how that is OK. Insulting them as people is not.

I didn't play the game, but I have been following the development a lot for the past few months and have been watching their regular streams and watched few streams after the game went into head start.

The discussions on Steam right now are civilized except for one guy who keeps calling everyone criticizing it a "D&D elitist." I got it, played it last night, and have no desire to keep going. Most of the negativity seems justified to me.

In my opinion, it's overall bland. There's little in the way of ruleset depth or anything for DMs to work with, and the gameplay isn't exciting. It's kind of a cross between a simple tabletop minature game simulator and an ARPG. It's definitely not the updated NWN people were hoping for.

Rahdulan said:

For all the obvious comparisons between NWN and SCL it's good to keep in mind that NWN had couple of decades of D&D lore and system to draw from while SCL doesn't. You can't really replicate that.

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What? Is this a serious post or were you making a funny?

My main problem is really with the nickel & dime. In previous games, you got the full (mostly) D&D experience at least for the first X levels. You could create characters from a variety of races and classes, access to most spells and abilities, and the adventure took you, say, to level 8. Then an expansion would come that lets you continue from 8 to 15 or whatever, etc.

But this game feels like it's restricted from the beginning. Few classes and races, with more available later (not officially but I would bet after you pay $). Want to play a druid? Pay $. Want to play a bard? Pay $. Want to play a half-orc? Pay $.

Even now, a potential DM can't use a Beholder in his/her adventures unless they buy the Deluxe edition. The game just has so many red flags!

wolfing said:

But this game feels like it's restricted from the beginning. Few classes and races, with more available later (not officially but I would bet after you pay $). Want to play a druid? Pay $. Want to play a bard? Pay $. Want to play a half-orc? Pay $.

Even now, a potential DM can't use a Beholder in his/her adventures unless they buy the Deluxe edition. The game just has so many red flags!

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You are right. They said in the very beginning that they wouldn't be able to integrate all races/classes from the get go because of budget restrictions and that they want to do them later if the game proofs lucrative enough.
The more I read/hear the more it looks like a money making scheme. I'm sure not the devs are to blame, but the management of Wiz. They wonder why their brand is suffering, but still only see it as a cash cow.

I've played to level 13 in the head-start.

Unfortunately, everyone saying the game would be bad was right but for the wrong reasons.

The D&D mechanics work well. The combat is pretty fun, leveling up and character creation are fun, the random items are decent, when it works properly and you have a DM you can really see hints of a great game hidden under the problems.

The trouble is the game is plagued by technical issues. There's loads of bugs. The engine (Unity) is horrible and uses flat out 100% GPU the whole time, even on the menu, on any quality settings. The network lag makes the game unplayable with more than 3 people with 50 ping. Anyone joining over 200 ping will desync the game so international play isn't possible.

I'm really not sure if these issues can be fixed in a week so the game will probably have a rough launch and I couldn't recommend it in this state.

edit: People only interested in singleplayer probably wouldn't suffer most my problems.

redman5427 said:

You are right in that there is not much covered about that 100 year gap;however, the story picks right up after that gap and there is a ton of lore already along with the fact that most of the locations and towns are still there. Plenty of lore concerning the Underdark and the controlling factions of the Dark Elves are also there.

I almost pulled the trigger on the Quickstart weekend but after reading the comments on the Steam forums I am happy I didn't. Granted, the early access people didnt receive much but module creation seems so basic and people are complaining, company people are saying game is a work in progress,blah,blah.

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Yeah the Steam comments are keeping me away for now too. Will keep it in my wishlist and let the critics decide.