Prime Junta
RPGCodex' Little BRO
- Joined
- October 19, 2006
- Messages
- 8,540
The definition of a recession (at least for the US) was changed during Bush I's term to 2 quarters of GDP decline from three. The '91 recession would not have been a recession under the previous description.
Huh? The NBER never used either of these definitions to date recessions. Who uses them?
Prior to the oil crisis, you'd see typically expansion for about 3 years followed by 3-4 quarters of contraction, though some times mild contraction. Often these flowed from one year to the next, so looking at a specific year isn't always useful.
True, though that's not what's puzzling me. You seem to make a distinction between "true" recessions and just plain recessions, with, apparently, the relatively mild and short post-WW2 contractions being "true" recessions, as well as the very short 1982 one, but the 2001 one not being one.
Any evidence of that. That's the first I've ever heard of anything like that. I could see if you had a situation like in Russia before the revolution that a recession or worse could be caused since no one had any money, but that's not ever been the case in the US.
I didn't come up with the idea. There's a fairly strong statistical correlation between the two -- spiking income differentials are a statistical leading indicator of deep recessions. Correlation doesn't imply causation, of course, and it's certainly difficult to prove either way. But the correlation is there. I'm afraid I don't have my references to hand right now, but Google "income inequality correlation unemployment" and you'll come up with a fair bit of stuff. (As I'm sure you're aware, unemployment is a very good proxy for recessions.)
Maybe not right now, and at least certainly not as bad as now, but we would have had more recessions in the period since 1983. Continuous economic expansion is simply not a natural phenomenon.
Nothing about the economy is "natural." The economy is an artifact of social engineering.
In theory they are not natural or inevitable perhaps, but in reality they are. Human nature will always create bubbles of some nature that will pop and create recessions.
But human nature can also create controls that oversee and attempt to control them. They may not be entirely successful, of course, but they can be partly successful. Even including the recessions we have had, the period since 1945 has been much stabler (for the advanced capitalist economies, both of the Nazi-leaning and socialist-leaning variety) than just about any period since. We have learned a good deal about recessions, how to avoid them, how to get out of them, and how to mitigate their effects. I see no reason to believe that we're suddenly going to stop learning, unless we just throw our hands up in the air like you're doing and declare the market a natural force beyond our understanding and control.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2006
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- 8,540