Your Presidential pick?

Prime Junta said:

IOW, if JDR is not a racist, rather than take offense, he should be open to considering the possibility that he is exhibiting a racist thinking pattern on the question about the causes of unemployment -- and perhaps take a hard, critical look at his beliefs on the subject and see how well they are grounded in fact rather than prejudice.

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*Sigh* Yeah I shouldn't have been offended at all, it really makes me appear racist.

I'm beginning to see that this could just go on infinitely at this point. Prime Junta is obviously not the type to ever consider that he could be wrong about anything. Instead he'll just continue to spin the conversation as he sees fit to best support his views.

I especially like ....

"and perhaps take a hard, critical look at his beliefs on the subject and see how well they are grounded in fact rather than prejudice."

....as if prejudice and race are the same thing. My comments about welfare had nothing to do with race. I didn't (and don't) distinguish between a black man on welfare and a white man on welfare, or any other color\race\religion for that matter.

Maybe if he had accused me of being prejudice against the poor in general (which I'm not) he would at least have a rational argument.

One of the problems with Detroit, as well as other hard hit areas, has been the resistance to change. Not saying it is the main driver or only driver, but you hear a lot, particularly in union states, where people are unwilling to make a career change. They want to be paid what they were paid before for the job they did before, even if that is not a reality. By the time reality begins to set in, they are often already in a cycle of poverty that is difficult to pull out of.

It's not just blue collar workers either. In '01 as the .com crash was finishing up, I myself was unemployed. I had a group that I met with once a week for 'unemployed happy hour' where the bar gave us $1 beers. There were TONS of former IT workers there. Many had been offered similar jobs to what they had held in the past, but at significantly reduced wages. They wouldn't take them. They blamed offshoring, outsourcing, all sorts of stuff, which all may have been true to some extent. However, few were willing to accept the reality that they either had to change careers or be willing to work at a reduced wage. By the time many did, they were completely broke, a few had lost their homes to foreclosure, and they were in general in such a bad state, both financially and mentally, that it was an inhibition against anyone hiring them.

While the concept of the guy that refuses to work at McDonalds but will accept welfare is overblown, it's not a complete myth either.

Again, I'm not saying all people on welfare have stories like that, but it's not that uncommon. They key to prosperity is adaptation IMO.

JDR13 said:

*Sigh* Yeah I shouldn't have been offended at all, it really makes me appear racist.

I'm beginning to see that this could just go on infinitely at this point. Prime Junta is obviously not the type to ever consider that he could be wrong about anything. Instead he'll just continue to spin the conversation as he sees fit to best support his views.

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On the contrary, I continuously revise my opinions as I learn new things and new facts come in. I don't, however, swallow bullshit wholesale. What do you do?

I especially like ....

"and perhaps take a hard, critical look at his beliefs on the subject and see how well they are grounded in fact rather than prejudice."

....as if prejudice and race are the same thing. My comments about welfare had nothing to do with race. I didn't (and don't) distinguish between a black man on welfare and a white man on welfare, or any other color\race\religion for that matter.

Maybe if he had accused me of being prejudice against the poor in general (which I'm not) he would at least have a rational argument.

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The myth of the welfare queen entered popular discourse during Reagan's presidential campaign, as a carefully calculated part of the Republican "Southern strategy" to woo traditionally Democrat-voting (racist) Southern whites. He and his speechwriters refined rhetoric to a very fine point where they pretty much completely got rid of overtly racist terms and replaced them with circumlocutions and structures that outwardly inoffensive, but pandered to the exact same prejudices. This myth -- the "young buck" (an overtly racist term in Southern states, which Reagan also used) or "queen in a Cadillac" on welfare -- is at the very core and center of this racist discourse.

You, knowingly or unknowingly, repeated this central, and racist, myth of post-Reagan conservatism -- the very thing that turned the party of Lincoln into the party of Reagan. It's *possible* that you genuinely had no particular race in mind when you wrote it -- but it's damn unlikely, simply because of the baggage the myth carries.

LOL! What else would you like to add that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I said? Spin away there PJ, spin away......


like I said before.......

Sorry, JDR, that's all I have to say on the subject, and since you didn't add anything of substance to the discussion, it appears that it has run its course.

Prime Junta said:

Sorry, JDR, that's all I have to say on the subject, and since you didn't add anything of substance to the discussion, it appears that it has run its course.

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Prima Junta,

You haven't added anything of legitimate substance in the last 2 pages, just a bunch of mumbo jumbo about how we're all apparently racist and just didn't know it. Even though nobody else here seems to agree with you, I'd be more than happy to acknowledge that we're all wrong and you're right if that's what it would take to finally get you to stop your useless long-winded ramblings, most of which have nothing to with my original post anyways.





Alright folks........... presidential picks?

JDR13 said:

You haven't added anything of legitimate substance in the last 2 pages, just a bunch of mumbo jumbo about how we're all apparently racist and just didn't know it. Even though nobody else here seems to agree with you, I'd be more than happy to acknowledge that we're all wrong and you're right if that's what it would take to finally get you to stop your useless long-winded ramblings, most of which have nothing to with my original post anyways.

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Mumbo jumbo? The only point you managed to get across to me during the last two pages was that you were offended by PJ calling you a racist. I'd say your contribution could be largely summed up by this:

PJ said:

By all means let's discuss Helsinki. I assure you that if you're mistaken about something you say about it, I'll have better arguments to offer than "I know because I live here."

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I've decided to close this thread, not for anything actually written, but because it has wandered SO far off topic as to be ludicrous. Since the current discussion has wound itself up, this seems an appropriate time to finish!!