D&D 3.5 edition rules Manuals.

Hello to all PnP and (C)Rpger's out there!

I don't know why but I have a sudden urge to buy the :

DM's guide, the Player's handbook and the Monster Manual of
D&D's 3.5 edition rules.

The last manuals I bought were the 1rst edition AD&D.
That's it. That's where my knoledge of D&D has stalled.
I'm still in the 1980's when it comes to D&D rules.
Well, I've played CRPG's that had the 3.5 ed. rules incorporated.
I find these rules intriging.

So, to help my writing of D&D related novels, and to fill my curiosity,
and knowing that the 4.0 editions rules are coming sometime soon,
should I buy these books???

Thanks!

They're already coming out with 4.0 edition?!?

That's just ridiculous, will 4.5 edition be released 2 months after that?

In short, I like 3.5, and have all I need to never go 4.0. Just like windows XP, they'll have to pry 3.5 from my cold dead paws!

Streamlined gameplay, it's easy to teach and learn, yet it's still geeky and involved enough to keep the real dummies and non-geeks out. Roll a D20, add a modifier. I love that.

I'd get it just to see how the game has evolved, if you truly havent seen it yet. Just make sure you buy them off like Amazon, you can prolly get each for like ten bucks at this point.

JDR13 said:

They're already coming out with 4.0 edition?!?
That's just ridiculous, will 4.5 edition be released 2 months after that?

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I forget where I saw that but I'm pretty sure that is correct.
BTW, 3.5 came out in 2003 I think. So it's "already" been a long time...

Well, 1st edition was in what, '77? I have those. Almost all of them.
2nd edition came out in '89? So that's 12 years...
3.0 came out in 2000. So that's 11 years.
3.5 in 2003.
4.0. Well, yeah JDR13, it might not be coming that shortly...
From my point of view, I don't think that another edition, the 4th,
would be likely to come out shortly... when the average "lifespan" of their previous editions were a decade long...
Having this in mind, not sure if I read it right.
I'll have to find the information I read to make sure I read it correctly...

Anyway, I think that the cover of these manual are cool.
I'll think about it for a few days.

So does anyone have any suggestions? if I should buy them or not?

xSamhainx said:

I'd get it just to see how the game has evolved, if you truly havent seen it yet. Just make sure you buy them off like Amazon, you can prolly get each for like ten bucks at this point.

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Thanks for the info my furry friend!

I have never put my eyes on the new rules...
To me, an armor class of 30 means nothing!
Show me an A.C. of -5 then I'll thell you that you kick ass and that you're really hard to hit. WTF is an a.c. of 30 anyways?

I played a few CRPGs (I forget which ones) and console RPGs like Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance (ps2) and wondered what the hell this new a.c. system meant, what the new skills table stood for, etc.

In short, I was lost. I didn't like the feeling. I felt that I wasn't geeky enough for
MY D&D world anymore. Been playing this stuff for what, hum let's see, almost 23 years now. I was 10 when I 1st entered that world. To not understand it anymore felt sickening.

Consequently, these past few days, I've been thinking about this.
And now that you suggest I should, that's good.
I'll wait 'till I get a few more thumbs up then I shall proceed.

And about buying them, I won't buy them new that's for sure.
In Canada, they sell for 42$ CDN and it's something like 22$ US in the US iirc.
I thought that the Canadian $ was stronger thant the US's one?...
I read somewhere that it's about contracts that are fixed something like 6 months in advance.

Anyways, don't care 'cause I've spotted the manuals that I want on
good 'ol Ebay! If I'm lucky, I could get them for 1/3 of their price here!

Ok. Thanks for the info Sam!

If you do not actually intend to play D&D right now, waiting for 4.0 might be a better choice. If you are writing D&D related novels you would probably be better off with some of the campaign books such as the Forgotten Realms accessories.

Personally I felt D&D3 was an improvement over AD&D. Overall I felt that it's far more streamlined and thus less to keep in mind while playing. Ofcourse, that's nothing a few accessories cant break...

From what I've read about the 4th Edition changes, it holds little interest for me. It doesn't even seem like D&D but a completely different game.

I'd get the 3.5 rules and stop there if I were you. They work well, make sense, are easy to use and generally successful.

I second the 3.5 rules. Hell, even 3.0.

The d20 system rocks for PnP gaming -- the fundamentals are very simple and streamlined, but it's flexible enough to handle just about anything. The D&D meat on those bones isn't bad either, but IMO 3.5 hasn't really added anything absolutely wonderful to 3.0, and I kinda doubt 4.0 will either.

Thanks guys!

Yesterday, I bought :

Player's handbook, DM's guide and the Monsters Manual.
All 3.5 editions.

I also bought a scenario : The Red hand of Doom!

Can't wait to get all those new goodies. Sweet!

I also have my eyes on two more supplements.
I'll talk about them when I'll have them.

Until then, good gaming to all!

If you seek inspiration i'll suggest a "setting" book such as Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Eberron etc. Personally I consider a such book to be a "core" manual along with the rules unless you consider yourself an excellent writer with the time and inspiration to write the setting yourself (I can respect that).

I am partial to Forgotten Realms[/quote] since I consider it to be the most well written, most diversive and most inspiring setting that I read for any fantasy RPG. If anyone talks about the "Dungeons & Dragons universe" they are probably refering to FR. It's the world that inspired the majority of all computer games like Pools of Radiance, Eye of the Beholder, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights etc.

Faerûn (the actual world in FR) have had +20 years to mature. There were close to 140 books written for Advanced Dungeons & Dragons, some of them suffered from unprofessional writing. The 3.0 Edition fix that by always taking themselves very seriously with professional writers and a mature approach that flesh out areas like culture and politics.

FR is inspired by the real world, so take any kind of reality-inspired fantasy setting you would like and you will find an counterpart in FR such as Russia, Northern Europe, a British Kingdom, Middle East, Far East, Spain, Africa, Amazon, Switzerland etc. Did you knew that Baldur's Gate II is located in the FR copy of Spain and NWN2:Mask of the Betrayer takes place in something closer to Russia?
The "Campaign Setting" provide every area with ideas on further adventures and mysteries, and when that's not enough the more detailed areabooks provide more in-depth area descriptions and adventures (Waterdeep, Cormyr, Lost Empires, Serpent Kingdoms, Shining South, Silver Marshes, Unapproachable East and Underdark).

JemyM said:

If you seek inspiration i'll suggest a "setting" book such as Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Eberron etc. Personally I consider a such book to be a "core" manual along with the rules unless you consider yourself an excellent writer with the time and inspiration to write the setting yourself (I can respect that).

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Thanks for the suggestions.

I know a little bit about Faerun because I've read almost all of Salvatore's novels (about 15 years ago) about my favorite character of all time, yes, you guessed his name. He is the character portrayed as my Avatar. Don't know him? I doubt it by all the info you gave me about the realm. Even if you do, I'll give it to you anyway because I find it so cool. His name is :

Drizzt Daermon N'a'shezbaernon.
He is more commonly known as Drizzt Do'Urden, secondboy of House Do'Urden.

Son of Zakneifen Do'Urden, weapon master of the same House, and son of
Matron Malice Do'Urden, damned leader of the so called House.

I also have some knowledge of Krynn, having read the novels (also some 15 years ago). Read the Chronicles, Legends, Tales 1 - 2, Preludes 1 - 2, and many others related novels of that series.

But I prefer by far the Forgotten Realms.
Hence, I'll give the FR supplements a look at when I'll be through the manuals I just bought and in need of inspiration.


Thanks JemyM.

enodenroH said:

He is the character portrayed as my Avatar. Don't know him? I doubt it by all the info you gave me about the realm.

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Hmmm. In your avatar I see an orc/demon with an axe... Either you changed your avatar recently or you know something I do not know...
In all images I have seen of him he is portrayed as a black/darkblue skinned warrior with long white hair and usually 2 scimitars. The following image is taken directly from Forgotten Realms: Campaign Setting 3rd edition.

"1st Edition" was something like the 4th version of the game. It can't be called 1st edition because it was "Advanced" Dungeons and Dragons compared regular Dungeons and Dragons which and was a more complex set of rules. The two systems were sold simultaneously if you remember. The "Basic" etc versions marketed as sort of an introduction version.

Being "Advanced" meant that Gary Gygax didn't have to pay Dale Arneson royalties which landed him a million dollar lawsuit. Eventually TSR did that to Gary with its "2nd Edition ADVANCED Dungeons and Dragons" which to me were too much like AD&d to even bother. To be fair Gary has claimed on his website they were in bad need of updating but I think he's since retracted his tune. He said the same thing about 3rd edition but is complaining about it as well since he feels its moving away from alignments.

Me, I feel 3rd Edition is soulless compared to D&D and AD&D. Sure the rules seemed liked they were made arbitrarily but there was an attempt to bring all the mythologies in our culture into some sort of system. d20 feels like a spreadsheet to me. There's too much emphasis on streamlined math systems, making sure there's balance, and a focus too much on its own D&D universe. That's me tho. There seems to be a generation gap about this sort of thing.

enodenroH said:

I also have some knowledge of Krynn, having read the novels (also some 15 years ago). Read the Chronicles, Legends, Tales 1 - 2, Preludes 1 - 2, and many others related novels of that series.

But I prefer by far the Forgotten Realms.

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My first AD&D boxed set was the World of Greyhawk (the 1983 box) for 1st Ed; I preferred the (rather generic High Fantasy) setting of WoG to the (even more generic) High Fantasy setting of FR which came out later. While WoG still seems to be the (new) D&D core setting, my favorite AD&D settings were Dark Sun and Planescape. I still remember how a lad named Michael Jackson (heh) showed me his brand-new 2nd Ed AD&D rulebook, and I thought, 'well, nice pictures, but the rules are too similar... won't get this anytime soon...'
In the end, I never bought any of the 2nd Edition rulebooks, just some of the source books... especially the world sets.

Lucky Day said:

there was an attempt to bring all the mythologies in our culture into some sort of system.

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Bringing together all mythologies, that went back as far as 1st Ed. AD&D. The Deities & Demigods sourcebook (later Legends & Lore) incorporated deities of most of the bigger and some rather obscure religions of our past, some deities from well-known fanatasy books and a few 'original' D&D/AD&D deities.
While I own some of the D20 adventure modules for Star Wars, I still use the D6 SW rules.

Gallifrey said:

I'd get the 3.5 rules and stop there if I were you. They work well, make sense, are easy to use and generally successful.

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That's what I did and can't wait to use them.

JemyM said:

Hmmm. In your avatar I see an orc/demon with an axe... Either you changed your avatar recently or you know something I do not know...

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Yeah, changed it before you had a chance to see it.
Here is the one I previously had :

It's taken from the cover of R. A. Salvatore's first published novel, The Crystal Shard.

I was in a hurry to change my avatar when I saw that bad ass looking beast as I was looking at WotC's avatars yesterday.
I have another one that I'll use later, when I'll be bored with my actual one.

Lucky Day said:

"1st Edition" was something like the 4th version of the game. It can't be called 1st edition because it was "Advanced" Dungeons and Dragons compared regular Dungeons and Dragons which and was a more complex set of rules. The two systems were sold simultaneously if you remember. The "Basic" etc versions marketed as sort of an introduction version.

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Hello!

I have around a dozen of them old 1st edition AD&D manuals.
I will probably keep them carefully for the rest of my life.

I decided to get the 3.5 because I was curious about the new rules and because I needed new ideas. I hope there are many of them in the new manuals of else I'll be pissed.

I remember the basic rules with the 1st one beeing the red box, Basic. The other one blue, Expert. The third was the Companion and the 4th Master.
The last one, Immortals I think was golden. IIRC that is.

I have all of the 1st 4 boxed gathered in a single volume called Rules Cyclopedia, printed in 1991, wich I also cherish.

Nevertheless, I'll never have too much of D&D stuff in my life.

I didn't know that the reason for changing the brand name for AD&D was about royalties... That's too bad. I think that we, as players, might have lost quality in all of this. Anyway, I'm not dead so I guess it wasn't that bad after all.

Jaz said:

My first AD&D boxed set was the World of Greyhawk (the 1983 box) for 1st Ed; I preferred the (rather generic High Fantasy) setting of WoG to the (even more generic) High Fantasy setting of FR which came out later.

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Hello!

I never played in that setting, beside Troika's Temple of elemental Evil.
Never was interested in it for a silly reason.
D&D had so many realms and I didn't have, and still don't, much money.
Fate decided that I would buy FR's core box in 1989 or something like that and that was it. Then, in 1990, I stumbled on Salvatore's FR novel of the Crystal Shard, the 1st tale of the exploits of a man, whom his father had also called two-hands, who mastered the art of dual wielding. Namely, Drizzt Do'Urden.

It's a miracle I bought Dragonlance novels at the same time. I did so because college friends kept talking about the tales of the Companions and of a character with golden skin and hourglass eyes that could see people wither before him....

Maybe one day I'll read some of the Greyhawk's stuff but I don't see that moment any time soon. Maybe if you find a way to convince me that it is worthwhile. Otherwise, screw that. I have plenty other stuff to do.

Jaz said:

Bringing together all mythologies, that went back as far as 1st Ed. AD&D. The Deities & Demigods sourcebook (later Legends & Lore) incorporated deities of most of the bigger and some rather obscure religions of our past, some deities from well-known fanatasy books and a few 'original' D&D/AD&D deities.
While I own some of the D20 adventure modules for Star Wars, I still use the D6 SW rules.

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Oops, when I use the term mythologies I use it from a sort of historical/anthropological use. ie. I don't speak reg'lar English.

What I mean is stories. That would include the stuff in Deities & Demigods. But what I meant were Vampires, Berserkers, Werewolves (the last two are actually the same thing), Poltergeists, Centaurs, Conan, Grey Mouser, Robin Hood, Elric, Lancelot, Gollum, Golem, Cthulhu, and Bugs Bunny.

Hm, I have steered clear of 3rd Ed. so far so I can't really tell the difference, but I thought they already had that mythological melting pot (stories included) in the 1st Ed., didn't they? With the exception of Bugs Bunny, of course, who must be the 3rd Ed. replacement for Waldorf and Statler .
Though... thinking of it, the adventure modules by Gygax himself were extreme hack'n'slash in the Tom & Jerry tradition: if it moves, hit it with a big club. If it doesn't move, hit it anyway - it will probably regenerate.