Windows 7 vs 10

Ripper said:

No way I'm paying for an upgrade to Pro just to avoid mandatory updates…

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danutz_plusplus said:

Well, if you think about it, it sort of makes sense. Casual users usually end up with Home editions, and they usually know squat about maintaining their systems…
So if you want to have that option you'd best opt for the other version. (and from I gather, the difference in price is around 40 dollars).

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It's exactly what danutz said. Home version basically means: CONSOLE. You need no brain to use it, just turn it on and that's it.
Why someone who needed professional in the first place (or in case of win7 sometimes ultimate) had home version is something I can't understand.
The price difference between win10home and win10pro is $80. On OS installation media. If you buy and install win10home then want to upgrade it to win10pro, that'll cost you $100.

But I gave a link on how to get pro version for cheap here:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29894

Assuming you have win7home or win8standard, just buy win8pro key (cca $23 if I saw it right), download win8 or win8.1 pro .iso file, use windows integrated app to make a bootable installation DVD or USB key (or use 3rd party software called rufus), install win8pro over your home/standard edition (kill partitions, create new one(s) then format the whole HDD) and then upgrade if for free to win10pro in a few days.

Danutz, a question if you tried or some other insider did. I cannot find the answer anywhere. I refused to be a part of insider program, seems I should have opted for that.
Since you seem to have win10 RTM from insider program…
A laptop came with win 8 single language version (bloody Samsung laptop, not mine, don't ask) was slow since the beginning and over time it got unbearably slow. The slowdown over time is pretty normal on win8, every single machine I've seen had the same issue, but an extreme case like this one I haven't seen yet. It loops something for minutes before it reacts. No HDD errors, memtest show no RAM errors.
If I use win 10 RTM today on it as a clean install, will it work okay no questions asked or I should tell it's owner to wait 5 more days and upgrade it before clean installation? I've already written her the license key from BIOS/UEFI with nirsoft's util just in case (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html).

joxer said:

Danutz, a question if you tried or some other insider did. I cannot find the answer anywhere. I refused to be a part of insider program, seems I should have opted for that.
Since you seem to have win10 RTM from insider program…
A laptop came with win 8 single language version (bloody Samsung laptop, not mine, don't ask) was slow since the beginning and over time it got unbearably slow. The slowdown over time is pretty normal on win8, every single machine I've seen had the same issue, but an extreme case like this one I haven't seen yet. It loops something for minutes before it reacts. No HDD errors, memtest show no RAM errors.
If I use win 10 RTM today on it as a clean install, will it work okay no questions asked or I should tell it's owner to wait 5 more days and upgrade it before clean installation? I've already written her the license key from BIOS/UEFI with nirsoft's util just in case (http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html).

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I don't think I know to answer your question. I've got it installed on my desktop, through the insider program from a Windows 7 Pro version. So mine isn't a clean install. But it runs all-around pretty good. Boot times seem similar to what I had on Win 7. I'm booting off an SSD mind you. But I don't think I'm in any way representative for your laptop. I'm running on an i7 4790k, 16 gigs RAM and off an SSD.

Forget I asked. Just found the answer.
The upgrade process generates a completely new win10 key (freebie during next 12 months), but clean installation doesn't do it.
And if you do the clean install, your win10, that was supposed to be free, will remain as not activated. Or as they call it "not genuine". And you'll need to buy a new win10 key. For god's sakes.

Man… This bloody win8 is so unbelievably slow it'll probably need to work overnight to perform the upgrade. Or even longer.
A suggestion to everyone, don't buy samsung laptops.

Also for future reference (in a few days), someone with win10 home who doesn't want autoupdating should try with this, dunno if it'll work:

To disable Automatic updates service then run the below command in cmd (run as administrator):
sc config wuauserv start= disabled

To stop Automatic updates service then run the below command in cmd (run as administrator).
net stop wuauserv

Starting automatic updates service:
net start wuauserv

Enabling the service:
sc config wuauserv start= auto

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Sorry for doublepost, but this is IMO very important.
After upgrading, you won't see the brand new win10 license key (it'll be coded in BIOS). This key you can see with nirsoft's util I mentioned.
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

Write down your new key after the upgrade. e-mail it to yourself. Do whatever, just note it down.
I'm not sure if you'll be asked to type it when you perform possible clean win10 installation in the future, it's basically better safe than sorry.

joxer said:

Sorry for doublepost, but this is IMO very important.
After upgrading, you won't see the brand new win10 license key (it'll be coded in BIOS). This key you can see with nirsoft's util I mentioned.
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

Write down your new key after the upgrade. e-mail it to yourself. Do whatever, just note it down.
I'm not sure if you'll be asked to type it when you perform possible clean win10 installation in the future, it's basically better safe than sorry.

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Hmmm ... interesting, I was thinking about a clean install for my wife's laptop that is acting crappy lately (it IS ~6 years old, I suppose). But maybe I'll go clean on Win7 and then upgrade from there.

Definetly do the upgrade first.
But I can't understand noone cleaning heaps and heaps of irrelevant data on internet. Had to crawl through thousands of spams, silly questions and repeated over and over things probably to spoonfeed those who never learned how to use google, just to find exactly what I wanted to know.

IMO it's Microsoft's fault. They should have written something like this in the first place:
"Do the upgrade first, not clean install even if it's life threatening case. After the upgrade, you can do the clean install, otherwise your win10 won't be activated."

But that way they wouldn't be able to charge for a new license key on those who did the clean install instead of an upgrade, right?
Probably someone from EA got a job at Microsoft.

joxer said:

Sorry for doublepost, but this is IMO very important.
After upgrading, you won't see the brand new win10 license key (it'll be coded in BIOS). This key you can see with nirsoft's util I mentioned.
http://www.nirsoft.net/utils/product_cd_key_viewer.html

Write down your new key after the upgrade. e-mail it to yourself. Do whatever, just note it down.
I'm not sure if you'll be asked to type it when you perform possible clean win10 installation in the future, it's basically better safe than sorry.

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I found this thread, and aparently if you upgrade you do get a new key, but it seems to be the same for everyone. At least ProduKey displayed the exact same one. And it not being unique, I doubt they let you use it for a clean install? Or maybe they'll allow it until the free upgrade year passes? And then they'll issue your real unique key? I'm not sure.

PreRTM keys were uniques for each machine (preview versions prior to 10240 build) but were discontinued and won't work on actual win10.

Didn't know that the key RTM generates is the same for everyone. It's definetly odd.
Geez more and more I google, more I read, more and more I'm confused.

EDIT:
danutz, seems that's the generic key displayed on system properties.
It's not the actual key from UEFI BIOS!
Did you use the nirsoft util I linked to and checked what that one says?

joxer said:

PreRTM keys were uniques for each machine (preview versions prior to 10240 build) but were discontinued and won't work on actual win10.

Didn't know that the key RTM generates is the same for everyone. It's definetly odd.
Geez more and more I google, more I read, more and more I'm confused.

EDIT:
danutz, seems that's the generic key displayed on system properties.
It's not the actual key from UEFI BIOS!
Did you use the nirsoft util I linked to and checked what that one says?

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Yeah, that's the one that the ProduKey software displays on my machine.

Then the only possible explanation for this I can think of is that OS activation is probably something more that just assigning a new (and now you brought up that it's the same for everyone) key.

It's possible that during the upgrade something else we're not aware of also happens. Which is somewhat logical considering that clean installation will refuse to activate win10 if it was not upgraded previously.

danutz_plusplus said:

Well, if you think about it, it sort of makes sense. Casual users usually end up with Home editions, and they usually know squat about maintaining their systems. So you have to enforce updating as default. From what I see Microsoft cares about their overall image/perception as to how secure their system is. If they give you the option to disable, some users, sometimes upon stupid recommendations from other users or just googling, will tinker with stuff without realizing what they're doing. Thus exposing their systems. Thus contributing to the perception that Microsoft's OS is not secure. (how secure it is actually isn't even part of this discussion). So if you want to have that option you'd best opt for the other version. (and from I gather, the difference in price is around 40 dollars).

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Yes, I can see a certain logic to it, but I don't agree with it. To me, being able to have control of when my PC reboots is not a pro 'feature', but a basic necessity for any OS.

As I say, though, I don't care much anymore, as my PC boots to Linux for general computing. Windows only survives as a necessity for gaming, so even the Basic edition (if that still exists) would do me, so long as it has DX12.

RE: Forced updates
they do sound terrible to any power user but as long as you can disable them for each individual piece of your hardware, they are not the reason not to upgrade to W10.
And you can diasble them, btw., but you cannot disable/choose the updates to core features of the OS, unless you buy Enterprise version, ofc.
I for myself am looking forward to forced updates because I am sick of going through every update every Patch Thuesday and deciding which update is worthy of installation and in the end ending up installing all but Internet Explorer updates.
I guess I am too much of a computer snob to set my updates to Automatic, and now all I can say is "Thank you dear MS for making me a little less snobish".
I am also looking forward to those infameous patches that tottaly wreck your comptuer.
Not that I ever experienced any of those, mind you.

Well, they're off to a flying start.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/gordonkelly/2015/07/25/windows-10-automatic-update-problems/

A second approach is something many readers mentioned in comments on my previous post when Microsoft confirmed Windows 10 updates were unstoppable: hack it.

Initially this might work, but in April senior Microsoft product marketing manager Helen Harmetz said during a Windows 10 webinar that users who forcibly stopped any Windows 10 updates would eventually have their security updates cut off.

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Genius.

Ripper, I wrote in one of previous posts commands to stop automatic updates.
I dunno if those definetly work as at this point I don't have win10 installed in front of me.
Till then, forget Forbes and problems on their quadSLI machines they paid $20.000 for.
The latest nVidia WHQL driver is not the one they mention, it's 353.30, not 353.54.
http://www.nvidia.com/download/driverResults.aspx/86510/en-us

Not really the point, though. How many seasoned gamers haven't had to mess around with drivers, rolling back to previous versions, etc? Now we'll be fighting Windows and its update decisions.

That's a bit of paranoic thinking, don't you think?

If Microsoft doesn't change the update system, customers will.
Just like games, we'll have mods for win10. Or if you prefer to call those with a proper name - hacks.

Yes, I'm sure I'll be hacking it in due course. But look at what MS are threatening to do if you block updates!

Just because you're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get you…

joxer said:

That's a bit of paranoic thinking, don't you think?

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You are unusually compliant about this issue joxer. I thought that you will be spitting mad and your "don't worry, be happy now" attitude is disconcerting…

EDIT - from the Forbes article: "“Please pull these off Windows update!!!” writes Nvidia forum poster slycoder. “It makes my second monitor not work and lots of flickering! Please. I roll back and Windows Update reinstalls them :/”

How do you know what crap MS will decide to autoinstall and, as of now, you can't even uninstall it because it will be reinstalled again…

You worried I got paid by M$? Nah. I can't be bought.

It'd be premature to panic.
M$ totally failed with win8 and couldn't fix the problem even with the ServicePack they for whatever reason called 8.1. Did I spit mad? Oh, I did. But only after I really had it under my fingers for a while.

If win10, and so far it seems it is not, turns up to be another fail, sure, I'll volunteer to lead the lynch mob.
We'll see in a few days when it's officially out.

joxer said:

You worried I got paid by M$? Nah. I can't be bought.

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They didn't buy you. They switch you with your evil twin!