Geneforge Saga on Steam - Is it worth it?

Ball_Breaker

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As the title says: I've seen the whole saga for 16 euros on Steam, and I'm interested in buying it, but first I'd like to know if it is better of Avadon (which I have) regarding main plot, quest, characters, choices, etc.? What do you say guys? Thanks a lot :).
 
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You can side with different factions, no pre-build characters, free character development, non-linear story, choices with consequences, free map exploring, challenging combat ...
 
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Hmmm all in one game? I can't believe that :D...
Just joking of course ;) it seems like I did well to take advantage of the Steam promotion then.
 
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Actually, one of the games that I've found unplayable because of the graphics (but that's just me of course) is Ultima IV, so don't worry about that ;).
I've just started Geneforge 1, and it seems interesting enough... I hope to find more 'recipes' to shape creatures soon.
 
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Not all is lost … Rpgdot-Geneforge Review (Val Sucher, 2003-10-29)

I got interested in the games by Spiderweb Software after I purchased and played Avernum 2. I was impressed enough by the old-school roleplaying experience from that game to try out another release from this small independant developer. The next game I choose was Geneforge. Geneforge is an isometric 2D single-player roleplaying game with a unique and interesting story to tell


You are a Shaper. A member of a group of powerful magic users with the amazing ability to create life by the sheer force of will. While on your way to a training facility you're attacked and barely manage to make your way to a small island. This isn't just any island though. This is Sucia island and it is Barred. Something terrible happened here and the Shapers who were here left in a hurry. No one has been allowed to come back. So, now you are cut off and in a place forbidden by your people. How will an inexperienced apprentice like you survive? What awaits you here? How will you get back home?

This is the beginning of Geneforge. Interested yet?


The Interface
Geneforge is primarily a mouse driven game with your standard keyboard shortcuts. You'll find the interface similar to games like the early Ultimas. Combat is turn-based, with you, your creations and your enemies having set numbers of action points to spend in a round. In combat you can attack with melee or ranged weapons, use magic, or simply let your creations take care of problems which are beneath you. Your enemies are fairly smart. They'll run if badly injuried and call for help when they start to lose. So be smart on how you choose to approach a fight.

Your skills directly effect how you will approach combat, puzzles and NPCs. With a high score in Leadership you can talk your way out of a fight (and still earn experience), lie convincingly, or even convince someone to join your cause. You can choose to be a brute fighter, a subtle magic user, or simply create creatures that fight for you. Creating a creature is called "shaping". You shape a lifeform from what is called "essence". You'll have a certain amount of essence that you can use. You can then either make many weak creatures to aid you or one large powerful creature. Once your essence is spent you cannot make more creatures. You do have the option of reabsorbing your creations to regain your essence to make new ones. Or, as you gain in experience so will your older creations. They become more powerful, just like you.


The Classes
You'll have three main classes to choose from. Each has their own strengths.

Guardians are the protectors of the Shapers. They excel at the fighting arts, but are still decent at creating creatures to serve them. They have poor magical skills though and advance slowly in that area.

Agents also protect the Shapers, but they are more subtle. As the game describes them: if you wrong the Shapers, then the Guardians will come for you in the day while the Agents will come in the night. They do the dirty work. This class excels in magic and has decent fighting skills. However, their shaping skills have suffered as a result.

Then there's the Shaper class. While physically weak, this class' ability to create minions should not be underestimated. While the Shaper's numerous creations tear his enemies to pieces, he can simply stand back and use his average magical skills to mop up what his creations don't finish.


Choose Wisely
Your choices in the game will also effect what happens. Something as simple as sparing a perceived enemy can come back to haunt you and bless you. For different factions will view your actions from their own points of view. Even what you say to one individual NPC will travel to the ears of others. This will effect how warmly or coldly you are then greeted by some NPCs. The game has multiple endings depending on who you choose to aid or not aid. You can simply work entirely for yourself if you do not wish to be swayed by anyone's cause. Be a hero or a villain, either way, you can still win. And the rewards can be just as rich.


The Factions
There are three primary factions that you can choose to aid or work against. Or you can even play all three of them against one another. Without the guidance of the Shapers on this island, most of the creations have gone rogue. They no longer recognize the Shapers as their masters. Some of the smartest creations are the Serviles. These are the creatures that form the three main factions.

The Awakened view themselves as equals of the Shapers. They will fight for their rights, but simply wish to co-exist with their former masters. They do not wish to be controlled, but still respect the Shapers as their creators.

The Obeyers view the Shapers as gods. A Shaper's orders are to never be questioned. However, if you mention to other serviles that they should be free, then these serviles may not view you as a true Shaper. In which case, they will not do as you say. They currently follow what they believe their masters would have wanted them to do.

Then there's the Takers. Some of these violent serviles would rather spit in your face than be forced to converse with you. They were forced to live in hostile conditions and feel abandoned by their former masters. They want their freedom and they'll do whatever is necessary to obtain it. Even bloody conflict.

All of these factions have their own towns and territories. They spy on and plot against each other. It would be easy to tip the balance in any way you choose. There are also serviles who don't follow any faction and are generally unbiased towards you. You'll also find other people on this island. Foreigners who got shipwrecked here. You can choose to aid or work against them as well. One important note, if you kill an important leader of any faction, expect them to be out for your head on a pike. No amount of money or shiny things will buy you forgiveness. So be careful in choosing your enemies.


The Downs
There are some bad points that I feel are necessary to point out. Sadly, shops will not restock. They run out of money and you can't sell off excess equipment to buy that new shiny sword. Come on, surely my character isn't the only person this shopkeeper deals with?

Leadership won't get you out of every fight either. It only works with intelligent creatures. Gragh the Battle Alpha won't be impressed with your dissertation on the benefits of friendship while he's bashing your head in.

You: "Let's just be frien-arrgh!
*sickening wet thumping sound*
Gragh the Battle Alpha: "Smash good!"

While in combat it seems you can't use every action point. After making a melee attack, you can't use your remaining three action points to move out of the way. This can be a problem when you get surrounded. Also, while the regular pathfinding is great, you'll sometimes have to babystep your character around a corner or obstacle to reach an opponent to attack. Minor annoyances, but they happen often enough to bug you. The experience system can also under-reward you for a hard won fight. If your fighting creatures that are very weak to the point where one hit kills them instantly with your weakest weapon, then you get little or no experience. However, if there are a lot of them in the area, then they can quickly gang up on you and pepper you and your creations to death.


The Graphics
The graphics in the game a far below the standards of today. However, I found them enjoyable in a nostalgic sort of way. The colors are bright and vibrant. On the whole, they are comparable to the graphics of Ultima 6. Creatures are unique in how they look although their animation is limited. The world is fairly static. So don't expect fireballs to leave holes in the ground. The game recommends changing your resolution to 800x600 and I agree. Anything more and you won't see what's going on very well. The game will remember to switch the resolution for you when entering and exiting the game.
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When you enter new areas, useful information will often pop up on the screen. Even while walking through an area you can get a pop-up that describes for you what the limited engine cannot. Some may find that bothersome, but if you don't mind a little reading the colorful and descriptive text can be enjoyable and immersive in the same way that a good novel is.

But, sadly, as a whole the graphics are fairly unremarkable.


Music
Music in the game is close to non-existant. Aside from the beginning theme song, don't expect much. The sound effects are limited to mostly combat and some environmental sounds. Don't expect any moving ballads that inspire you to bash the bad guy's head in. You'll have to make up your own. Or just find some nice classical music to play in the background. Luckily the game doesn't take up much memory and you can play Winamp easily in the background.


The Game World
The settling of the game is unique and fresh. A strange mix of sci-fi and fantasy that serve up a unique playing experience. If you're tired of the same old elves, trolls and wizards in pointy hats, then you just might want to try out Geneforge. The world is fleshed out and even simple things like lock picks are replaced by "living tools", creatures that can work on mechanical devices like locks and traps. The society of the Shapers is a strange cross of scientific research using magic as their tool to obtain results. So, you'll see the evidence of past and advanced technologies of the Shapers in the game. Discovering the secrets behind this barred island can lead to great power. The game is also highly replayable with different characters. Simply because different locations favor different classes. This creates multiple paths to the same goals.


Conclusion
Overall, I'd highly recommend Geneforge for old timers who miss the glory days of the classic role-playing games, or those curious to find out what they missed. Either way, the demo presents a goodly portion of the game for your perusal. No crashes and smooth gameplay relieve you of the annoyance of waiting for a patch. Geneforge is an indepentally developed game by one individual. At $25, it's worth a look.



The Verdict
Graphics (15%) 50%
Sound (15%) 40%
Control (25%) 90%
Fun (45%) 95%
Overall 79%


The ups

Original setting
Engaging story
Non-linear
Decent enemy A.I.
Well balanced classes
Multiple endings
Choices affect gameplay

The downs
Poor sounds
Dated graphics
No restocking of shops
Wasted action points
Experience system under-reward


Reviewer's System

Version: 1
CPU: Intel Pentium 3 1GHz
RAM: 384 MB SDRAM
Graphics GeForce 3 Ti200 Pro (128 MB)
Sound Creative Sound Blaster Live! Value
 
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Geneforge 2 Rpgdot-Review (Val Sucher, 2004-02-18)

Once again as with the original Geneforge, you find yourself immersed into a fantastic, fleshed-out world that blends sci-fi with fantasy in a unique twist. Once again you are an apprentice of the Shapers. An eager student looking to learn the secrets of molding life itself to your will. Unlike the first game, you do not find yourself entirely alone. As your final test to become an actual Shaper, you are assigned to accompany an Agent on a minor mission to a desolate colony called Drypeak. A relatively unimportant mining colony that has seen better days. As you near the colony with your companion, you both begin to notice that things are not quite as they should be. Rogues wander freely, the gates to the city are unguarded, and a nagging feeling in the back of your mind telling you that something is seriously wrong.


Beginning and ends

As you explore deeper into the game, you will start to see the effects of the first game's story. The secrets of Sucia Island live on and threaten to burst out of the mountains. You are the only person who can stop the disaster and war that is coming. Or will you choose to help it along?

Entering the world of Geneforge 2 will present you with many choices. There are several factions in the game that you can join, fight against or simply ignore. Of course, ignoring some factions wouldn't make the problems they present go away. In fact, you can have quite an unhappy ending if you don't deal with some of these problems. The game has multiple endings and depending on your actions will effect the ultimate ending of the game. As you explore, you will meet the four factions that vie for dominance in this mountainous area. The effects of the first game stretch into the plot of Geneforge 2 and you'll recognize some of the factions if you played the first game. However, knowledge of the first game is not required since you're playing a completely different person. The plot is new and refreshing.

You'll first encounter the Loyalists in the colony of Drypeak. Suffering from disillusionment at what they have wrought here, they seek to return to the true path of the Shapers and honor Shaper law. Their crime is great and they seek atonement. But just how loyal are these Shapers who hide the secrets their sins behind the crumbling facade of their town? Or are they merely powerless fools caught in a struggle that they cannot hope to win? You can join them in their fight to regain their lost honor or leave them helpless by the wayside.

Deeper into the mountains, you'll encounter the changes that have been wrought here and you'll meet the other factions.
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More Factions

The Awakened are a familiar group from Geneforge. A group of serviles, the most human of the Shaper creations, fleeing the destruction that occurred when the Shapers returned to Sucia island, they still seek acceptance and equal rights. While they are grateful for the life that the Shapers have given them, they see themselves as children who have grown to adulthood and expect their parents to recognize them as equals. You can choose to champion their noble cause or put them in their place.

The Takers also fled from Sucia Island and their mad quest to take their freedom by force burns even more fiercely than before. Seeing the destruction of their people and home on Sucia has spurred them on to new heights of fanaticism. They'll do anything to gain their freedom, even become more like those they hate to obtain their goals. Even though they hate your kind, they are willing to work with you if you'll work for them. Join their violent quest for freedom or slaughter them all for rising above their station in life.

The last faction are the Barzites. They are lead by a Shaper who upon seeing the secrets of Sucia island, coveted them for himself. They seek perfection. Even if it means dangerously modifying their very genetic code to obtain it. Instant power. Instant strength. Instant magic. They seek to make themselves into perfect beings who will live forever. They're also completely and perfectly crazy individuals who do not use their new power wisely. Their methods of altering their very essence have unpredictable and disturbing effects. Join their mad pursuit of purity or crush them under your boot heel for their heresy and perverting the ways of nature itself.

You can choose to join any faction, but how you answer certain questions will effect how friendly they act towards you. If you champion one cause, then others who oppose that cause will doubt your sincerity. Those who enjoy seeing their actions and words effect the world around them will not find Geneforge 2 a disappointment. The choices you make will effect the options you are offered. You'll also have the option of not joining any faction at all. You can rebuff all the offers of help and remain true to your mission and the true path of the Shaper. With this many options the game has a lot of re-playability.



The Improvements
There also are some noticeable improvements in this sequel. As you progress in the game you'll find more powerful creations than existed in the first game. More importantly, you'll learn how to shape these dangerous creatures and bind them to your will. The powerful Drakon, Rotghroth and Gazer are the results of the mad experiments of those who are secretly working in the shadow of these mountains. And they can be made to serve you in the pursuit of your quest.

The Leadership skill has also become much more useful. You can now convince some rogue creations to join you. Every creation has an innate desire to follow the Shapers whether they want to or not. The Shapers designed them with a need to follow so they could be controlled fairly easily. If you are charismatic enough when talking to certain abandoned creations, then you can convince them to follow you. The Mechanics skill is actually required to defeat one very powerful creature in an optional area. The reward for defeating it makes it worth the cost of the skill.


Things that did not change
Unfortunately, some of the same complaints from the first game still exist. Merchants who do not restock items or have enough gold to buy all of your excess loot can leave you with an inventory full of junk unless you make a dumping ground somewhere. Even a bag or chest to store items in would have been nice. The ability to customize your character is also limited. You don't get to choose your gender and the color schemes you can choose for your avatar leaves much to be desired. Lime green and bright purple? My eyes would start to water looking at that. Combat is also limited by the fact that once you make an attack, all of your left over action points can no longer be used unless you have enough to make another attack. This seems like an unnecessary handicap to place on the player. NPCs are also mostly static. They don't move around much and there is no day/night cycle in the game. Mostly these are minor annoyances that can be tolerated or worked around. You can also only rest in towns and your health and essence do not regenerate naturally. This can lead to frequent runs back to town if you run out of pods to restore it.


The Interface
Not much has changed since the original Geneforge when it comes to the interface, controls and overall game play. Once again, the story is open-ended and non-linear without making the player feel completely directionless. The game world is large and well designed. As you explore more areas you'll find that there are generally two paths to every major objective or location. Trickery or combat. You can complete major quests with pretty much either one. The path of trickery focuses on general skills, most notably Leadership and Mechanics, or just sneaking past foes. But if you prefer the more direct approach, slashing through hordes of monsters works too. However, you will find areas that require combat and some that require the Mechanics skill to bypass obstacles. Although using cheap creations to "bypass" mines can also be a viable solution even if it is ethically suspect. *wink*
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The interface is relatively straightforward and the tutorial at the start of the game familiarizes you quickly with the most used short-cut keys. The inclusion of quick slots makes casting spells and shaping new creations easier and quicker. The in-game documentation is excellent and easily accessible from your journal. So you don't have to Alt-TAB out of the game or flip through a manual to find the answers you need. It's also easy to keep track of all of your creations via the status screen at the upper-right hand side of the screen. You can see their health levels, essence levels, and even if they are afflicted by poison or some other malady. Clicking on them will bring up even more information on how it is fairing.


Combat

Combat has remained turn-based as with the first game. There are truly a myriad amount of solutions that you can approach combat in the game. You can mix things up in direct melee combat with foes or use hit and run tactics using ranged weapons or magical attacks. You'll gain access to 32 different spells that will increase your abilities in battle and elsewhere.
You can heal yourself and creations, shield yourself from attack, cause your enemies to flee in terror or unleash devastating magical attacks. You can also attack anyone in the game, friend or foe. It is entirely possible to kill every NPC in the game, which makes for an interesting ending. Experimenting with you creations special abilities can help ease your path through the game. For example, using creations with a mind attack can be very affective against weak-willed creatures. Creating multiple cheap creations to surround and distract opponents can give you the opportunity to take them down from a safe distance. Your creations can also gain experience just like you. So the older your creation is, the more powerful it becomes on it's own. The only thing that would make creations more effective in battle is if you had direct control over them.

Sadly, if you don't spend some points on intelligence when you create them, then you can expect them to rush blindly into battle and get themselves killed at the first available opportunity. I loved that little Friendly Rat you could recruit. Of course, I doubt I could count the number of times I had to reload because he charged into battle to nibble on a Drakon's foot and the Drakon stepped on him. This can handicap you in battle if you see one of your more valuable creations about to expire. I found myself locking my creations in a room sometimes, just so I could keep them alive for encounters where I'd need their help later on. A minor pain, but when your creation brings down a major foe that was about to kill you later in the game, you'll forget that inconvenience and be happy that your little minion is still with you. As you become more powerful, you can use more of your power to make your creature stronger. So, you don't have to start over with a new creation. You can make it stronger, quicker, smarter or more robust.

You won't spend all of your time fighting. A great deal of time is spent talking to NPCs as you drill them for information. Many NPCs aren't just simple quest givers or merchants. They'll have their own personal story and could pose moral questions to you to find out your beliefs. Also, if you have a high enough Leadership skill, more conversation options will be open to you.


Classes
As with it's predecessor, you have the choice of playing one of the three core classes, Shaper, Guardian, or Agent.

The Shaper class is skilled in magic and excels at the art of shaping essence into living, breathing creations that serve the will of their master. They are physically weak and have to rely on their creations for protection since their combat skills are more costly to advance in. However, once the Shaper gains access to some of the more powerful creations in the game, they can match and surpass any foe in battle.

The Guardian is a fighter. Skilled in melee and ranged combat, they rely more upon their own physical strength then any of the other classes. Guardians can still be decent at shaping creations and can create minions to assist them in assaults, but don't have a natural affinity for pure magic. It is very costly for them to train in that area.

The Agent excels at the use of magic. Bending it to their will, they can become powerful mages. They can also hold their own in a fight. However, their shaping skills suffer due to their focus on magic and physical skills. They are the enforcers of the Shaper Council. The Leadership skill however may make the Agent class more powerful than the others since they can now make up for their weak shaping skills by being able to talk fast and sweetly. By recruiting creations to their cause, they can make up for their poor shaping skills.


About Graphics and sound
Game play is smooth and uninterrupted by crashes or bugs. There was one bug when the game first came out, but that was quickly squashed with a patch. Other than that one bug, the game plays like a dream on both of my test systems. The game was happy to play on both Win 98 and XP. It'd didn't have a hitch with my GeForce or Radeon, AMD or Intel. I just wish other developers would release games that ran this smoothly and would get along with all of my hardware.

Geneforge 2 appears to use the same engine as the original. So there have been no major advances in the graphics department. It uses the isometric bird's eye view of the world and the ability to interact with many of the objects around you. However, the older graphics are more than made up for by descriptive text pop-ups that describe people, your surroundings and your reaction to or observations of them. For instance, the description for the character Barzahl was especially poignant.

"When you enter, Barzahl moves forward to greet you. He is a man in middle-age. He looks surprisingly strong for a Shaper. His muscles bulge under his robe. You catch a glimpse of his face, and you notice two things. First, his skin is glowing slightly. Second, his eyes are totally cold. he looks at you as if you were nothing, a non-entity, which could be crushed without a second thought. Something has scraped the humanity out of him."

In some ways, the text describes the character better than even advanced graphics could. You'll receive invaluable hints that make up for the lack of graphics and sound. For instance, entering an area filled with the stench of rot that makes you gag gives you a hint as to what type of creature resides in the area. It gives you enough information to make up for the lack of your normal five senses and provide you with useful hints that can help in your game play. It is gratifying to see a developer make up for a poor graphics engine in this way, because now the game doesn't loose what it can't do with graphics and sound. The only thing that would make it better is if special items didn't use the same graphics as normal items.

The sounds are relatively unchanged for the most part and music is mostly non-existent. Therefore my advice remains the same. Find some suitable music to play in the background on the mp3 player of your choice.


Conclusion
Geneforge 2 has a lot of old school appeal. Those who enjoyed the first Geneforge will find Geneforge 2 just as satisfying as the first game. It builds on the first game in a logical manner and is an excellent sequel. With great writing, a solid story and consistently good game play, the overall value of the game is hard to pass up when the price of admittance is only $25.


The Verdict
Graphics (15%) 50%
Sound (15%) 50%
Control (25%) 90%
Fun (45%) 95%
Overall 80%


The ups
Original setting
Intriguing storyline
Non-linear
Multiple endings
Choices affect game play

and downs:
Repetitive sounds
Old-fashioned graphics
No restocking of shops
Wasted action points
Lack of customization for avatar

Reviewer's System
Version: 1.0
CPU: Intel Pentium 3 1GHz
RAM: 384 MB SDRAM
Graphics GeForce 3 Ti200 Pro
Sound Creative Sound Blaster Live! Value
OS: Windows 98SE, DX 8.1
 
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Whoa HiddenX, you should get paid for writing reviews, thanks a lot!
So far I'm enjoying the setting, and the plot seems very promising too. I find combat very challenging, maybe because I'm a Shaper with just two creatures for now, let's see further...
 
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These are not my reviews - they were written by Valerie Sucher - an old mod at rpgdot.com.

My crpg-meter for Geneforge 4 can be found here.
 
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These are not my reviews - they were written by Valerie Sucher - an old mod at rpgdot.com.

HiddenX - you are a braver man than me calling Val "old" :)
 
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While Buying Geneforge 5 is definitely on the books (after Skyrim I think), I wonder if
Vogel plans to reissue the older ones with the updated Engine (as he is doing with Avernum)…

That is keeping me from investing on the rest right now (I would prefer to get the updated versions).
 
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FYI, Steam has put the Geneforge Saga on sale for $9.99 through November 28. I finally pulled the trigger and bought it. Given my backlog, who knows when I'll get around to playing these games, but I can't argue with $2/game.
 
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The Geneforge series for $10 is an incredible deal. I got it when it first appeared on Steam and I love Geneforge 1 so far. It's much more interesting and original than Avadon, which seemed very bland to me.

First post, by the way, from a long time lurker. :)
 
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I usually say that you only need to play one Geneforge game and then you can skip the others because they are all pretty much the same game. But it's definitely worth $10 to play that one game, it's pretty interesting and original. And if you like it so much that you want to replay it, well then playing genforge 2 is at least slightly different then replaying the original.

Definitely agree that it's better then Avadon, although I do think Avadon is a good game, it's just that Geneforge is better.
 
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