Larian Studios - Swen In Search of Women

I'm sorry, but I've never understood the point of the blame game. It seems such a waste of time and effort.

Focusing on solutions would seem to be much wiser.



Then what's the problem again.



I find cooperation very easy, but it does take two. If you insist on creating a fantasy of blame instead of reading what's actually said - then it's going to be harder than it needs to be.

The point, essentially, is that blame is useless.

I don't blame you for bitching - I'm just pointing it out as useless.
I am glad to see progressive insight when looking at posting #58 and #60. Well, at least I think it is progressive insight. Could well be a boost of testostoron pushing the ego forward to shine somehow, even when that means contradicting oneself. ;)

BTW I understood you did not blame me personally.
 
Off topic a bit, but ties in. Engineering at my company used to be totally dominated by men and Asian men primarily. Most of these men have reached retirement age and engineering is now at least 50/50 between male/female and most of the engineers are U.S. born; at least in the Midwest. I expect to see the same thing in gaming, but I think it is going to take studios/dev teams that are led by women. I also believe that women who work on computers for a living, will start taking that home as a hobby too.

It is okay for men and women to like different things though. That's a big part of what makes us men and women. Opposites attract is still true. I don't want a woman who wants to be like me, thanks. So my wife can enjoy Candy Crush, Sims, and Facebook, etc. I'll enjoy crpgs. We both enjoy exploration and finding secrets, so we merge there and both enjoy those types of things and do those together.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
8,836
I am glad to see progressive insight when looking at posting #58 and #60. Well, at least I think it is progressive insight. Could well be a boost of testostoron pushing the ego forward to shine somehow, even when that means contradicting oneself. ;)

BTW I understood you did not blame me personally.

Clearly, cooperation is first on your agenda and the very name of your game :)
 
It is okay for men and women to like different things though. That's a big part of what makes us men and women. Opposites attract is still true. I don't want a woman who wants to be like me, thanks. So my wife can enjoy Candy Crush, Sims, and Facebook, etc. I'll enjoy crpgs. We both enjoy exploration and finding secrets, so we merge there and both enjoy those types of things and do those together.
Whatever makes you tick. Personally I am more attracted to equals.
Opposites attract as long as the other one's an appealing stranger. Once known and conquered misunderstandings start.
Couples that share views, (dis)likings and interests have more fun and less stress, research shows. All hail to buddies and soul mates.
 
Actually, I think it's about forgetting gender and just seeing each other as people in different situations for reasons beyond our control.

Males built the vast majority of the industry. Not because they're amazing, but because (most) females just didn't seem to care about gaming and computers. So, the foundation is based upon male industry and male psychology. That's just how it is.

That is in the past, though.

Women are interested now and many have let go of the social stigma associated with gaming - so let's ignore who did what and just focus on making and playing great games that don't exclude anyone if there's no reason for it.
 
That's made a little bit too easy though. While this might be partially true, that is also neglecting the background. I mean in US Women got their right to vote not even 100 years ago. And only a couple of decades ago people determined that the women's right place is the kitchen.

Until everything we receive as normal now regarding equality also is within all the "structures" it took a while and in certain areas it might still take a while.
I mean your grandfather or father might still have been told, that it was a crappy decision to let women vote. It takes a while until such resentments are gone.
And not all things are directly affected. A might affect B, B might affect C. And while a change in A might take 20 years to get to B, this effect on B might take another 20 years to reflect on C.
I mean if my mother was required to work with the computer the same way my father did, that might already have an influence on gamer statistics.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
That's made a little bit too easy though. While this might be partially true, that is also neglecting the background. I mean in US Women got their right to vote not even 100 years ago. And only a couple of decades ago people determined that the women's right place is the kitchen.

Until everything we receive as normal now regarding equality also is within all the "structures" it took a while and in certain areas it might still take a while.
I mean your grandfather or father might still have been told, that it was a crappy decision to let women vote. It takes a while until such resentments are gone.
And not all things are directly affected. A might affect B, B might affect C. And while a change in A might take 20 years to get to B, this effect on B might take another 20 years to reflect on C.
I mean if my mother was required to work with the computer the same way my father did, that might already have an influence on gamer statistics.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say.

If you're trying to say that females were just as interested in computer gaming as men were back in the 60s, 70s and 80s - and they simply stayed out of the industry because they were being oppressed, then I can't agree.

Doesn't mean it can't have been a factor in some cases - but I don't buy it as a primary reason.

But what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter. I mean, who cares? It serves no purpose now.

The situation now is that gaming is becoming accepted by the masses - so let's focus on how we can create great games and enjoy them without battling each other.

Don't think about why - just change things. Bothered by how few women are playing "hardcore" games? Just be passionate and talk about why they're great - and others will latch on.

I've always believed gaming to be an incredibly rich way of passing the time - and I see no reason not to include everyone in the fun.

Someone has tits and someone else has a dick. Great, but utterly irrelevant.
 
Yeah, I agree with your conclusion. :)

I just think that the following wasn't really the complete truth ^^
Males built the vast majority of the industry. Not because they're amazing, but because (most) females just didn't seem to care about gaming and computers. So, the foundation is based upon male industry and male psychology. That's just how it is.
 
Joined
Jun 2, 2012
Messages
4,699
I am not sure why Swen is so surprised ... Kickstarter in general is dominated by men 70:30 - and I am sure if you drill down the demographics break even further depending on area. Then you have computer-based games, and particularly RPGs, and even more particularly 'hardcore' and 'old school' cRPGs ... which again skews the population.

To me it is just a basic cumulative probability function.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
14,955
It might also help "the cause" if female gamers stopped blaming men for the state of the industry, and started convincing their female friends that gaming is cool.
It might help if men stopped taking statements of truth personally and warping them. :) If our society functions in the way that women play less because, say, they have too many domestic responsibilities, it doesn't mean you should be insulted and indignant! You aren't god, right? You didn't create this world, nor you devised cultural roles for it. Just saying. And so, there's no adequate reason to hurry and shut people's mouthes up when they make statements about how the world functions.

Unless you do play games while your own girlfriend or wife cooks and watches kids, in that case I'd understand the reaction of guilt and subsequent anger and denial. Lmao! But if not, I suggest you consider reacting differently ;)

As for female friends needing to be convinced to play games, now that's one flawed assumption. Mine are all gamers since school. It's very funny how mine and my brother's taste aren't in accord, too. He plays Battlefield games that I cringe from these days (too tired of shooters) and thinks that RPGs are "too complicated" (his own words).

One interesting thought occurred to me while reading this thread. People say personal experience doesn't reflect reality. But come to think of it, if we deny personal experience without having convincing and 100% accurate data to replace it, we end up with potentially even wronger views. So if anyone wants, they can dismiss my previous paragraph and still be sure that all men play smart games and women play dumb games. But that would be dismissing evidence that challenges this view. Dismiss evidence, call it "an exception", and voila, you've "proven" whatever you wanted.

And heck knows why women don't kickstart… I don't, either! Maybe because I feel unwelcome at all gaming sites. That one jerk (not you) in this thread is the best example why. *pats herself on the back for having courage to post in this thread again* Oops, I really hope noone thinks that it's the "blame game" ;)
 
Joined
Jan 2, 2013
Messages
574
Location
Russia
Yeah ... there is a reason in another thread D'Art noted that I tend to hop up immediately for social justice issues. I tried to avoid that here, because I felt like regardless of intent, Swen was missing the point.
 
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
14,955
It might help if men stopped taking statements of truth personally and warping them. :) If our society functions in the way that women play less because, say, they have too many domestic responsibilities, it doesn't mean you should be insulted and indignant! You aren't god, right? You didn't create this world, nor you devised cultural roles for it. Just saying. And so, there's no adequate reason to hurry and shut people's mouthes up when they make statements about how the world functions.

Unless you do play games while your own girlfriend or wife cooks and watches kids, in that case I'd understand the reaction of guilt and subsequent anger and denial. Lmao! But if not, I suggest you consider reacting differently ;)

As for female friends needing to be convinced to play games, now that's one flawed assumption. Mine are all gamers since school. It's very funny how mine and my brother's taste aren't in accord, too. He plays Battlefield games that I cringe from these days (too tired of shooters) and thinks that RPGs are "too complicated" (his own words).

One interesting thought occurred to me while reading this thread. People say personal experience doesn't reflect reality. But come to think of it, if we deny personal experience without having convincing and 100% accurate data to replace it, we end up with potentially even wronger views. So if anyone wants, they can dismiss my previous paragraph and still be sure that all men play smart games and women play dumb games. But that would be dismissing evidence that challenges this view. Dismiss evidence, call it "an exception", and voila, you've "proven" whatever you wanted.

And heck knows why women don't kickstart… I don't, either! Maybe because I feel unwelcome at all gaming sites. That one jerk (not you) in this thread is the best example why. *pats herself on the back for having courage to post in this thread again* Oops, I really hope noone thinks that it's the "blame game" ;)

That's a lot of projection :)

So, now I'm insulted because I don't think the blame game will help get more women into gaming?

Talk about a leap based on complete disregard for what I've been saying. Try reading all my posts in the thread and figure out how the pattern taking form is 100% opposite to your fantasy about me.

In other words, stop being insulted and indignant because you can't be bothered to read.

Sometimes, it helps to be thorough and not react immediately based on presumption and emotional investment.

Just saying.
 
In other words, stop being insulted and indignant because you can't be bothered to read.

Sometimes, it helps to be thorough and not react immediately based on presumption and emotional investment.

This sums up 87% of all arguments that happen on the internet.
 
Joined
Aug 13, 2013
Messages
2,871
And heck knows why women don't kickstart… I don't, either! Maybe because I feel unwelcome at all gaming sites. That one jerk (not you) in this thread is the best example why. *pats herself on the back for having courage to post in this thread again* Oops, I really hope noone thinks that it's the "blame game" ;)

I agree some gaming sites can be jerks to women, other races etc. However how can people be jerks to one and another on KS? Do you mean the comment sections etc? I have funded many games on KS but never really took part in their comment section since I found it lacking to have proper conversation about games. So I always go to the game website and use their forums. I always treated KS as glorified pay pal site. I just go there click a button and pay and that's it.

There are many valid excuses to not fund a game you want succeed/play but people being jerks to you on KS isn't one of them ;)
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,425
Location
UK
I am not sure why Swen is so surprised … Kickstarter in general is dominated by men 70:30 - and I am sure if you drill down the demographics break even further depending on area. Then you have computer-based games, and particularly RPGs, and even more particularly 'hardcore' and 'old school' cRPGs … which again skews the population.

To me it is just a basic cumulative probability function.

Why is KS dominated by men in such a high ratio? Based on this thread, some people are arguing that women are just as much interested in old school gaming or gaming in general as men. If that is the case, surly they will be KS many games as well?

My reasoning (not sure if its true), currently women are not interested in gaming like men. This is changing but for women to get to the same participant level as men in games will take lot of time.
 
Joined
Oct 8, 2009
Messages
4,425
Location
UK
Back
Top Bottom