Handbooks - Quality declining ?

I still have all my records, too, but I know I'll never thouch them again - I digitized those which were never released on CD, and that was that. I really hated it how these things jumped lines from time to time. It made me paranoid.
One of my records had an infinite track on it, something the corresponding CD doesn't have, of course... but in my eyes, making an infinite track finite was the lesser evil . So far, I had only one line-jumping CD out of ~1500, but many records that came with scratches, straight from the store...

"There is definitely less incentive to buy a game legally when it comes with nothing extra for the consumer to be excited about."

Hmm.. shouldn't the *game* itself be the thing you're most concerned about getting? I mean, I also enjoy the old Ultima packages with cloth maps, coins etc - but I don't really have any real use for the stuff.. it's just something I have sitting on my shelf in the old boxes. Saying that you don't want to pay for a game unless it comes with some piece of plastic junk seems a bit silly to me, sorry!

Personally, by habit, I always try to get the collectors edition of the games that I like - but lately I've realized that I'm really just tossing money out the window! The game itself is always the same, and that's really the most important thing for me.

I can see how some people would take that attitude about it.
Pissed off about not getting any frills on full priced, totally hyped games, so they just go download. I get ticked off myself when I open a full-size game box, and all I get a mere sliver of documentation and the disk(s) are in some lame cardboard or even a blank paper sleeve. Here I may be paying $50+ for something, and I have to make my own damn jewel case so it can sit in my cd rack? Waiting for the day they just slap a label on a CD-RW, or start scrawling the title on the disk with a sharpie. Part of a fine meal is it's presentation, and I remember with fondness the days when part of a game was it's presentation as well.

So yeah, I can see why someone would possibly use that as one of many reasons to justify their game piracy. It's not me tho, I would just rather have the legal and original full product, on disk, as provided by who made it. Aside from any type of LG beliefs that I may hold regarding the subject of piracy, it's also more convenient and hassle-free as far as I'm concerned. I have enough trouble getting things running with the legit versions of some games, the last thing I want to be doing is messing with hacked versions, cd keys, malware and what not.

I always pay cash at the check-out for my games...that's the 'full retail' package (to support the industry)...but i do not read any manuals or paraphernalia, never have done, never will do, i vindictively refuse to!
I disable in-game tutors and such like. After installing i use my own self intuition to find as much in-game detail as possible...to delve into the dark unknown is the very essence of the game enjoyment.....so like KasperFauerby says its the *game* itself which is all i care about.

Oh, and i almost forgot....

I have a massive vinyl album collection. Analogue play-back equipment is far superior to any digital methods where the human ear is concerned....this is has been proven conclusively in blind testing.
Collectors vinyl has always maintained its credibility even throughout the cold years (when hyped cd dominance prevailed and retail outlets began to sell cd music only)
For several years now there has been an upsurge in demand for vinyl. Even some of those very same outlets are stocking vinyl again....."long live vinyl"

Jaz said:

There was only one big box I kept for nearly ten years: the one containing 'Towers of darkness'. But I cut that one up last year when I ran out of storage space.

Click to expand...

"Towers of Darkness", is that the Heretic\Hexen collection you're refering to?

I had that also, along with the Doom collection, until just recently.
Very cool box, but I finally threw it away, it was just taking up too much space.

Wulf, admit it, you just can't READ!!

JDR13 said:

"Towers of Darkness", is that the Heretic\Hexen collection you're refering to?

I had that also, along with the Doom collection, until just recently.
Very cool box, but I finally threw it away, it was just taking up too much space.

Click to expand...

Yep, that's it. I also own all published Dooms with the exception of the N64 one (though I played it at a friend's placce), but not in a big box.

Re: [Wulf, admit it, you just can't READ!! ] ...Corwin, you found me out!
(Cm will hear of this - after all, she taught me to spell 'cornor') ! !

I reckon all decent players could get through rpg type games without the manual...or even a map....i don't know if there is such a game that cannot be properly completed without the need of those items.?

I can certainly understand why vinyl is making a comeback. I have the same artist both on vinyl on a cd. And on the vinyl (or the record) the artist's voice is much
darker and deeper, the tone of the music is much softer compared to all of these things on the cd. The vinyl record seems to have more if a genuine feel to it.

Just like the olden rpgs of the old days seem to have more of a real rpg feel to them, but then they did also come with player's handbooks and manuals

I have a pretty good stack of vinyls, but these days the choicest ones are only used for decoration. They make a great border along the top of the walls.

Hey I'm a single guy ok, we're all about tacky decoration!

Now that I think about it, I should have at least cut out the front cover of every pc game I ever bought. I always felt bad throwing away an awesome box. Between the albums and the pc game box covers, you could do some great game room interior decorating.

With that attitude my friend, you're likely to remain single!! Don't you know that the first thing a female wants to do, is re-decorate!!

Moriendor said:

The last game that pissed me off in this regard was NWN 2. I bought the Chaotic Evil Collector's Edition which -OK- does have a printed manual but it turned out to be a stripped down version of the US version's manual which has an extensive section on 3rd edition D&D rules, (prestige) class requirements etc etc etc - The printed Euro manual in the CE does not have that.

Click to expand...

Didn't they do the same with Baldur's Gate here in Germany ?

Corwin said:

I have a massive collection of old empty boxes!!

Click to expand...

Me too !

My dream ist to scan them all and put them online in kind of an museum !

Alrik Fassbauer said:

Didn't they do the same with Baldur's Gate here in Germany ?

Click to expand...

I don't remember what kind of manual the German BG had but I wouldn't be surprised if the manual sucked since the German version of BG on a whole got raped left, right and center. Remember the Saxon accent of some characters? Seriously, the German version of BG would have deserved to be nominated for comedy of the year awards, it was that retarded .

It is interesting, I got Spectrobes DS for review last week, and noticed as I removed the shrinkwrap that there was also one of those 'tape circles' on the right side of the case. This surprised me, but after I removed it I saw why - the game case could barely remain closed! Sure, there is a standard 'Nintendo Safety' pack-in, as well as a set of 'game cards', but the main thing was the 80 page manual! The manual is excellent - loads of information, little hints and asides, all put into the context of the actual game. The game itself is sort of a Pokemon-ish redux so far, but the manual has me completely enamored ... heck, I think I'd rather review the manual and just give the game to my kids!

I know this is a RPG forum, but I used to play a lot of strategy games and Caesar III had a 200+ pages manual/handbook.
I still believe that's how manuals are supposed to be and all the newer games with 50- pages are just a waste of time.
I actually don't mind the manual being on PDF, reading on the PC or in a book is the same for. I do prefer books than PDF, but PDF is ok for me.

All the Gothic manuals were jokes, very good April's fool jokes.
Masters of Orion 3 has a great manual, I preferred the manual over the game.
These are my 2 cents on game manuals.

That's right Pladio, manuals in pdf format are o.k, an easy on-screen convenience, then there's html format documentation. Even gothic-1 had an .htm help file on the disk yet many players complained of "no book".....it just that they expected a manual as "the" default method.

The Gothic games (and others) have self-intuitive content that have to be searched for and interpreted by the player and as such would be conceptually wrong to have a book giving gameplay details, thats what the games were about....where our own learning curve came into play.

I hate manuals that give away details of gameplay or methodology, those are the bits i want to find out as a challenge for myself as i progress, the very reason i get the games in the first place.

But don't you think a manual should be there:
1. in case you do need (for you it would moslty be to see if you did manage to find everything out by yourself).
Or
2.for people who like reading the manuals or need them.
?

Of course, manuals are for those that need or like them or for nostalgia reasons but so are forums.

Consider two situations of "hand-holding" methods for learners or newbies.

1. Where a strategy guide or manual is used to find solutions to help complete a game where otherwise they are lost.

2. Where "walk-through" type forum posters (progressively asking for help) until they can complete a game.

Forum casual browsers without any interactivity can also find info's on game parts where they are stuck. As for me, i take a game as a personal challenge, if after trying my hardest to complete (depending on immersive factor) i then put the game away, maybe to try some other time.....but never wishing to find solutions by another means than playing on face value.

I regard handbooks in strategy games as an essential. But well, this is an RPG forum anyway.

What I don't really remember are handbooks in ring-binding or how it's called. I don't remember a single one here.

Maybe that's a German thing or I play the wrong games ...


What always astonishes me, by the way, is the fact that games usuall don't have any in-game help at all. Okay, from apps we are used to this, but games ... ?

There often isn't even help in the main menu (tutorials not counted).

The only one with a really developed help engine is TOEE. I measure every game against it.